(04-07-2016, 09:38 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: we probably offered him the same deal or something close. I guess he chose to go to the Raiders where he might see more playing time. Pretty whack if you ask me, if you were to offer me the same amount as another company but require me to work less id be all over that.

Seems like he got plenty of playing time here. He was a iron man virtually on the field the entire game.

2 years for up to $12 million. Also saw Bengals were still in it until the end but it didn't say if similar money was offered. Oh well...Let's hope Shawn Williams as is as good as they hope and can stay healthy. A lot depending on him doing so.

(04-07-2016, 10:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you keep the Pro Bowler then the kid never gets a chance to prove anything.  

Sure he does, he has all of OTAs, Training Camp, and practice all year, not to mention times when he's put in there, to prove he is better and can take the spot....instead of just "giving" it to him to find out if he's better....

(04-07-2016, 11:08 AM)milksheikh Wrote: Shawn Williams will be a FA after this season, don't you want to see what he can do?

He obviously did not do enough inh practice to take Reggie's spot on the field. I want to keep the best player, if that's Williams then fine, but he should have to develop enough to take it, not be given it.

(04-07-2016, 11:52 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Seems like he got plenty of playing time here. He was a iron man virtually on the field the entire game.

I believe he was talking about it Reggie re signed here as a backup to Williams.....

(04-07-2016, 12:29 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Sure he does, he has all of OTAs, Training Camp, and practice all year, not to mention times when he's put in there, to prove he is better and can take the spot....instead of just "giving" it to him to find out if he's better....

It could be that Williams did prove himself to the coaching staff last year, once the season starts backups get few reps if any with the starters so unless there is an injury there is not much chance to prove anything. They spend most of their time on the scout team Defense. Also, I wouldn't say it is just being given to him... he still has to beat out Smith and whoever else we bring in. It was just time to move on, it could have been Reggie saw the writing on the wall. He could have had a closed door meeting with the staff and didn't like what he was told and decided it was in his best interest to move on....

(04-07-2016, 12:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He obviously did not do enough inh practice to take Reggie's spot on the field. I want to keep the best player, if that's Williams then fine, but he should have to develop enough to take it, not be given it.

Every team in the league would like to keep the best player at every position.  But they can no always afford to.

I have said this over and over again.  Look around the league at what every other good team does.  There comes a time when they can not afford to keep all their veteran stars and they have to replce them with cheaper young talent.

No other player on the roster last year played well enough to start in front of Andre Smith or Marin Jones. either.  It just isn't possible to re-sign every starter who becomes a free agent.

I'd hate to keep Nelson for a 2 year short term stopgap and then see Williams leave in FA a-la Marvin Jones only to become a very good player for a long time on another team. Shawn may not be on reggie's level at the moment, but he's shown something. That combined with youth is enough to move on from the older player.

Love reggie and what he did for this team. He really turned a long time position of weakness into a strength.

(04-07-2016, 03:44 PM)samhain Wrote: I'd hate to keep Nelson for a 2 year short term stopgap and then see Williams leave in FA a-la Marvin Jones only to become a very good player for a long time on another team. Shawn may not be on reggie's level at the moment, but he's shown something. That combined with youth is enough to move on from the older player.

Love reggie and what he did for this team. He really turned a long time position of weakness into a strength.

Thing is there is no guarantee that Williams will return either. He could leave after next season while we would have still locked down Nelson. Our best players are in their prime and Aj Green's and Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlaps do not come along every year.

(04-07-2016, 05:58 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: Our best players are in their prime and Aj Green's and Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlaps do not come along every year.

And the only reason we can afford to keep all of those guys is because we don't give $6 million a year to guys like Reggie Nelson.

Listen, i like Reggie as much as anyone, but I also liked Marvin Jones.  Look around at the rest of the good teams in the league.  They all have to make hard decisions about who they pay and who they keep.

(04-07-2016, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And the only reason we can afford to keep all of those guys is because we don't give $6 million a year to guys like Reggie Nelson.

Listen, i like Reggie as much as anyone, but I also liked Marvin Jones.  Look around at the rest of the good teams in the league.  They all have to make hard decisions about who they pay and who they keep.

Agree, I'm sure that some owners miss the old days of "Plan B", when they could retain limited rights to 37 players.  In those days, teams could pretty much amass a ton of talent, and hold onto it, and create dynasties, like the Steelers of the 70's, Niners of the 80's, and Cowboys of the 90's;  Until full Free Agency came about in 1992, the Salary Cap was introduced in 1994, popular, big revenue generating teams held the league hostage, as far as wins and losses go. 
 
Not arguing against free agency, or the salary cap, revenue sharing, etc.  Just wanted to offer a little background, on how things came to be the way they are, to the younger fans who might not remember the NFL before unrestricted free agency was a thing.

(04-07-2016, 12:16 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: 2 years for up to $12 million. Also saw Bengals were still in it until the end but it didn't say if similar money was offered. Oh well...Let's hope Shawn Williams as is as good as they hope and can stay healthy. A lot depending on him doing so.

Hate seeing him go, but it is what it is, time for the kids to step up.  I would have to think that with that Reggie deal they're going to get at least a 3rd and 4th comp pick next year with that many descent sized deals and nothing counting against them. 

I think we'll draft a safety. You can't start two box safety's in a passing league. Williams stepped in admirably for Iloka (another SS), but William never stepped in for Nelson to take the center fielder, free safety spot. It's a gamble for a passing league.

(04-07-2016, 12:16 PM)JungleRock85 Wrote: 2 years for up to $12 million. Also saw Bengals were still in it until the end but it didn't say if similar money was offered. Oh well...Let's hope Shawn Williams as is as good as they hope and can stay healthy. A lot depending on him doing so.

If Nelson got a 2 year 12 million dollar deal, he own financially. The Bengals won also as 2017 that equates to another nice compensary pick. Best of luck to Reggie, I ilked him and thought he was under rated around here until recently.

(04-08-2016, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think we'll draft a safety. You can't start two box safety's in a passing league. Williams stepped in admirably for Iloka (another SS), but William never stepped in for Nelson to take the center fielder, free safety spot. It's a gamble for a passing league.

Iloka is one of the top cover safeties in the game.

(04-08-2016, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think we'll draft a safety. You can't start two box safety's in a passing league. Williams stepped in admirably for Iloka (another SS), but William never stepped in for Nelson to take the center fielder, free safety spot. It's a gamble for a passing league.

wasnt he playing for nelson vs the steelers? and from what i understand we generally dont run a SS and a FS we have them switch it up

apparently the bengals were trying to retain him but at a lower price range.

(04-08-2016, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think we'll draft a safety. You can't start two box safety's in a passing league. Williams stepped in admirably for Iloka (another SS),  but William never stepped in for Nelson to take the center fielder, free safety spot. It's a gamble for a passing league.

  I posted this in another thread but it is relevant here also, this kid has major upside...

 Nobody knows much about Derron Smith since he played out on the west coast and yes he has to prove it at this level, but nobody can deny the fact that he is a player! The only game I remember seeing him in college was the Las Vegas bowl when Fresno State lost to USC, I remember the commentators saying he was the best player on the field that day. (I remembered thinking "How? Their losing) It wasn't until a few weeks ago until I started looking him up when all Reggie leaving talk started that I found out what they were talking about. He had 18 tackles and a pick 6 in that game. The 18 tackles tied Troy Polamalu for the Las Vegas Bowl record. For the season he had 87 Tackles, 7 Ints and even added 4 sacks. Was the Mountain west Defensive player of the game in the MWC Championship game.... In hindsight he probably wished he came out after his Junior year...his senior year it seems he played with some sort of Sports Hernia but he still registered 93 tackles... He had 15 career Ints, so I would agree he is a ball Hawk. We really got a steal with this one, will he develop at this level only time will tell. But I wouldn't be surprised if he finds his way onto the field this year.


Shawn and George better come with their "A" game because Smith is waiting in the wings.

Derron Smith College picks for those that have not seen them:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0KF38HF2Q

(04-08-2016, 11:39 AM)J24 Wrote: Iloka is one of the top  cover safeties in the game.

At his position, SS, not Reggie's position FS. Iloka may be able to make the transition, not sure though, I would keep him at SS.

to fill in the back end of the safty DC with a little experience... how about reuniting Williams with rambo...

(04-08-2016, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think we'll draft a safety. You can't start two box safety's in a passing league. Williams stepped in admirably for Iloka (another SS),  but William never stepped in for Nelson to take the center fielder, free safety spot. It's a gamble for a passing league.

Actually Iloka was considered a FS coming out of college. He was just put at SS due to Reggie Nelson already playing FS.

I expect Williams to take a more traditional SS role and Iloka to move to Nelson's spot on the field.