Reading the Eifert 5th Year Option thread, someone was talking about how Marvin Lewis won't put the teams collective boots on another teams throat and plays conservative when up in games and I wonder, is it Marvin Lewis or is it Mike Brown as to the reason why?

Maybe I'm remembering wrong because it was so long ago, but I don't ever remember the Bengals putting points on the board when they are up with the exception of a game here and there against teams that the owner, Paul Brown, didn't like...example that Houston game way back when or Cleveland in the early Organization years.

I must be missing a game here and there though like when the Bengals went off on Chicago when Benson got his revenge game or that Dillon single game rookie record he set.

What year was it, 2014 maybe, when we kept rolling up 40+ points at every home game? I remember us just pasting the Jets something like 45-9, and that was just one of four or five games where we rolled up the score on the opposition.

(04-13-2016, 08:53 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: What year was it, 2014 maybe, when we kept rolling up 40+ points at every home game?  I remember us just pasting the Jets something like 45-9, and that was just one of four or five games where we rolled up the score on the opposition.

The Jets game was 2013, and they scored 40+ points 4 times that year.

Plus one of them was when they scored 31 points in the 2nd quarter and then shut down for like two quarters until the very end.
Another was where they got a 21-0 lead early in the 2nd quarter and piddled around until the Colts came back, then they started trading scores more or less.

Marvin all the way

(04-14-2016, 02:25 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Marvin all the way

Agreed.

He's still too defensive-minded from his time with the Ravens because, it was so hard to score on that d, they'd put a few points on the board, run the ball, and the D would hold on for the W.

They were 14th in points scored per game on offense that year and still went 12-4.

I don't see Marvin being any more conservative than any other NFL head coach. This seems to be another one of those popular message board myths with not real facts behind it (see: Marvin never plays rookies. Andy Dalton has a weak arm. Bengals waste too many picks on projects. etc etc)

Pretty much every NFL head coach plays conservative with a big lead.

(04-14-2016, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see Marvin being any more conservative than any other NFL head coach.  This seems to be another one of those popular message board myths with not real facts behind it (see: Marvin never plays rookies.  Andy Dalton has a weak arm.  Bengals waste too many picks on projects.  etc etc)

Pretty much every NFL head coach plays conservative with a big lead.

He didn't have big leads, and that's my point.  One or two scores, or even three, isn't a big lead.

Dalton did have a weak arm before working with House (wasn't so much about his arm being weak, but rather his throws being weak, which is what you meant).

(04-14-2016, 02:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Dalton did have a weak arm before working with House (wasn't so much about his arm being weak, but rather his throws being weak, which is what you meant).

House did not improve Dalton's arm strength or increase the velocity on his throws.

Yes I'm sure Mike Brown calls down to Marv during the games "Marvin what are you doing? How can I attend the annual owner sleepover if you put too many points on the board and humiliate our opponents! The Rooneys and Maras are going to hate me! Please, keep it close so I can stay in with the cool owners!"

(04-14-2016, 02:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: He didn't have big leads, and that's my point.  One or two scores, or even three, isn't a big lead.

And my point is that any coach with a great defense would play just like Marvin in these situations.

(04-14-2016, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: House did not improve Dalton's arm strength or increase the velocity on his throws.

Yes, he did, by improving Andy's footwork.....it all starts with the legs.

(04-14-2016, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: House did not improve Dalton's arm strength or increase the velocity on his throws.

I pointed out that he did not improve Dalton's arm strength, but you're very delusional if you think that he didn't increase the velocity of his throws or the accuracy and distance of his deep balls.

(04-14-2016, 03:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And my point is that any coach with a great defense would play just like Marvin in these situations.

You have to be disagreeing with me just to disagree and try to sound smarter than me because there's no way that anyone with a functioning brain would believe this.

Any coach with a great defense would realize that even great defenses get tired if they're on the field too much and that you need to move the ball and the chains to milk the clock and keep your defense on the sideline.  You run the ball more but you don't go into shut-down mode and only run.

A perfect example is all of 2009 when we'd get up a score or two or even three and then Marvin would have Bratkowski go into a mode of play calling that was run, run, pass, punt, which was easy to defend, so teams would come back, and then Palmer would have to beat them in the hurry-up offense with two minutes to play.

(04-14-2016, 03:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, he did, by improving Andy's footwork.....it all starts with the legs.

I can't believe that Fred's even trying to argue that Dalton's velocity and deep ball didn't improve, but I guess I'm stupid for even being surprised at anything he posts anymore.

(04-15-2016, 04:59 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You have to be disagreeing with me just to disagree and try to sound smarter than me because there's no way that anyone with a functioning brain would believe this.

Any coach with a great defense would realize that even great defenses get tired if they're on the field too much and that you need to move the ball and the chains to milk the clock and keep your defense on the sideline.  You run the ball more but you don't go into shut-down mode and only run.

A perfect example is all of 2009 when we'd get up a score or two or even three and then Marvin would have Bratkowski go into a mode of play calling that was run, run, pass, punt, which was easy to defend, so teams would come back, and then Palmer would have to beat them in the hurry-up offense with two minutes to play.

No.  You are wrong. 

2009 was an anomaly unlike any other year, but even then we were more conservative even when we did not have a lead.  We ran on first down all the time and did not really change when we had a lead.  But I agree we were much more conservative overall that year.

Other than that year Marvin does not play any more conservatively than any other coach in the league who has a good defense.

(04-15-2016, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  You are wrong. 

2009 was an anomaly unlike any other year, but even then we were more conservative even when we did not have a lead.  We ran on first down all the time and did not really change when we had a lead.  But I agree we were much more conservative overall that year.

Other than that year Marvin does not play any more conservatively than any other coach in the league who has a good defense.

No we did not run on first down all the time. Sometimes we passed on first down and a few times we took a knee on first down. 

For being such an arrogant know-it-all, you sure are wrong a lot.  

Since 2011 the Bengals have called a pass on 46.1% of the plays run when they were up by 7 points or more. That ranks 16th in the league and is almost identical to the league average of 46.6%.

However, when you look at the teams ranked by scoring defense it is clear that the teams with the best defenses are generally more conservative.  Only 2 teams with top ten scoring defenses ranked in the top 10 in pass% when leading by 7 or more (Pitt, NE).  The top 2 scoring defenses (Sea, SF) over that period rank 28th and 31st in percentage of passes when leading by 7 or more.  The Bengals have the #3 scoring defense and their pass percentage when up by 7 or more is actually higher than 4 other top ten defenses (Sea, SF, Hou, Car) and tied with a 5th (Bal).

So over the last 5 years it is clear that Marvin has not been more conservative than most other teams with good defenses.

(04-15-2016, 06:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since 2011 the Bengals have called a pass on 46.1% of the plays run when they were up by 7 points or more. That ranks 16th in the league and is almost identical to the league average of 46.6%.

However, when you look at the teams ranked by scoring defense it is clear that the teams with the best defenses are generally more conservative.  Only 2 teams with top ten scoring defenses ranked in the top 10 in pass% when leading by 7 or more (Pitt, NE).  The top 2 scoring defenses (Sea, SF) over that period rank 28th and 31st in percentage of passes when leading by 7 or more.  The Bengals have the #3 scoring defense and their pass percentage when up by 7 or more is actually higher than 4 other top ten defenses (Sea, SF, Hou, Car) and tied with a 5th (Bal).

So over the last 5 years it is clear that Marvin has not been more conservative than most other teams with good defenses.

...and the numbers when up by two scores or more? Also, curious as to where you got the numbers. Not doubting them, but interested for potential future use.

(04-15-2016, 06:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ...and the numbers when up by two scores or more? Also, curious as to where you got the numbers. Not doubting them, but interested for potential future use.

What do you consider "two scores or more".

To me 9 points is "two scores".  in that case the rankings should not change very much.  I am not going to do the math on all the teams, but the Bengals pass% drops from .461 to .440 while the league average drops from .466 to 437.  So, if anything it looks like the Bengals are even more aggressive than the rest of the league in these situations.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&search=&player_id=&year_min=2011&year_max=2015&team_id=&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&quarter=1&quarter=2&quarter=3&quarter=4&quarter=5&tr_gtlt=lt&minutes=15&seconds=00&down=0&down=1&down=2&down=3&down=4&yds_to_go_min=&yds_to_go_max=&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&field_pos_min_field=team&field_pos_min=&field_pos_max_field=team&field_pos_max=&end_field_pos_min_field=team&end_field_pos_min=&end_field_pos_max_field=team&end_field_pos_max=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_complete=-1&is_turnover=-1&turnover_type=interception&turnover_type=fumble&is_scoring=-1&score_type=touchdown&score_type=field_goal&score_type=safety&is_sack=-1&include_kneels=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_location=&game_result=&margin_min=9&margin_max=99&order_by=yards&rush_direction=LE&rush_direction=LT&rush_direction=LG&rush_direction=M&rush_direction=RG&rush_direction=RT&rush_direction=RE&pass_location=SL&pass_location=SM&pass_location=SR&pass_location=DL&pass_location=DM&pass_location=DR