(10-21-2016, 11:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: STFU

The more I think about it, I was pretty passive.  But your right, this is stupid.  As a fan of a pretty good team, recent history, how do you hope for a losing season.  

I really don't want to be the Chargers who were always in the hunt with Marty but couldn't get over the hump, only to have a great quarterback go to the wastelands with even more turnover and bad coaching.

(10-21-2016, 10:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I like winning more than I hate any coach.

When I watch the games I root for the Bengals, not against Marvin Lewis.

Losing does not help your team in anyway apart from improving your draft position. 

One of the best things about the past 5 years has been knowing that virtually every week we had a great chance of winning or at least being competitive...I don't take that for granted - even if we don't make the playoffs I want us to win as many games as possible.

I do think this team needs a refresh at HC and I am frustrated that both Zimmer and maybe Hue could have taken this team further with the talent we had. But wanting them to lose or miss a playoff opportunity...nope.

(10-21-2016, 11:00 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The coach does not have the skill and talent that the players do.  It's also a matter of revenue.  When was the last time you saw someone wearing a Marvin Lewis jersey?  How often do you think someone buys tickets thinking "man, I can't wait to see Marv clap on the sidelines"?  The players are who generate excitement and revenue for the franchise, not the coach.

And there is a difference in college: the coaches there - from Bear Bryant and Adolph Rupp ca. 50 years ago to Coach K and Nick Saban today - college coaches definitely seem to have more of a following. And, maybe that was what really appealed to Knight about college - being the center of attention. Almost all his players stayed four years, but none any longer (unless redshirted) whereas a pro can spend his whole career with one franchise.

But, to your point, if it is the players who have all the talent and generate the excitement, it seems like the players who should be cut when fans are disappointed if you follow Knight's view.

Of course getting in the playoffs is what we all want. I think this thread is really saying that you don't want to get embarrassed again. And to that ill say I don't either. So to not get embarrassed we have to be confident we have the coaching staff to get us a win. And seeing that weve lost 4 out of our last 5 I have no faith that we can even scratch up 6 wins. So no I don't want to make playoffs unless something big happens.


But I actually think these playoff threads need to stop. Were gonna be a horrible team for the next decade. Because Marvin will not be fired ever.

(10-21-2016, 12:06 PM)xxlt Wrote: And there is a difference in college: the coaches there - from Bear Bryant and Adolph Rupp ca. 50 years ago to Coach K and Nick Saban today - college coaches definitely seem to have more of a following. And, maybe that was what really appealed to Knight about college - being the center of attention. Almost all his players stayed four years, but none any longer (unless redshirted) whereas a pro can spend his whole career with one franchise.

But, to your point, if it is the players who have all the talent and generate the excitement, it seems like the players who should be cut when fans are disappointed if you follow Knight's view.

You can have talented players, but if the play calling and/or scheme sucks they will not be successful.  Also, players who don't perform do get cut.  It happens all the time.

I'm not a college basketball fan and am too young to really remember Knight at Indiana, but I've read a few articles that said he liked being the boss and lording power over younger people who had little recourse.  There is a big difference in coaching 19 year old kids living off scholarship versus 25 year old men who are making $2 million a year.

(10-21-2016, 12:16 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: You can have talented players, but if the play calling and/or scheme sucks they will not be successful.  Also, players who don't perform do get cut.  It happens all the time.

I'm not a college basketball fan and am too young to really remember Knight at Indiana, but I've read a few articles that said he liked being the boss and lording power over younger people who had little recourse.  There is a big difference in coaching 19 year old kids living off scholarship versus 25 year old men who are making $2 million a year.

You are right.

Do you remember P.J. Carlesimo? Google P.J. Carlesimo gets choked by a player if not...

Knight is one of many college coaches accused of abusing their authority and bullying players. Clearly a college student has a lot more to lose if he or she does not listen to a coach. But the flip side is, why would a pro player care what a coach making a fraction of what he makes says, especially when if the player fails the coach will be fired, and the player will keep cashing pay checks? If you don't believe there is some truth in that, watch the sidelines at pro games a little more closely. It won't take long to see it.

One of the best football players and coaches in recent memory, imo, was Mike Singletary. He sent a petulant, pouting player to the locker room. Singletary subsequently lost his job. That is just one example among many (Carlesimo being one of the most dramatic).

I hope the Bengals make the playoffs. Look at both of the Giants last championships, they were having "average" seasons, and went on a hot streak to the title.

(10-21-2016, 09:55 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Still would not mind if Marvin was moved to an office job.

Right,

If Mikey has to keep the loyalty going and has a hang up with the General Manager title just make up a title, hell. Make Marvin the executive vice president or something. Make Paul Alexander the executive vice president of offensive operations. Make Ken Zampese assistant OC.

And hire a new HC and let him bring in a whole new crew. We need a house cleaning bad !

(10-21-2016, 12:22 PM)xxlt Wrote: You are right.

Do you remember P.J. Carlesimo? Google P.J. Carlesimo gets choked by a player if not...

Knight is one of many college coaches accused of abusing their authority and bullying players. Clearly a college student has a lot more to lose if he or she does not listen to a coach. But the flip side is, why would a pro player care what a coach making a fraction of what he makes says, especially when if the player fails the coach will be fired, and the player will keep cashing pay checks? If you don't believe there is some truth in that, watch the sidelines at pro games a little more closely. It won't take long to see it.

One of the best football players and coaches in recent memory, imo, was Mike Singletary. He sent a petulant, pouting player to the locker room. Singletary subsequently lost his job. That is just one example among many (Carlesimo being one of the most dramatic).

I think the great bulk of players have a tremendous amount of pride and are uber competitive.  They want to win, they want to perform at their best.  They also know that they can be benched, cut, get a bad reputation, etc.  All of those things keep them from getting the next contract, so even if they are only encouraged by the money it stops.  I think this is especially so in football where they don't have guaranteed contracts.  Many of these guys are basically on year to year deals, not like baseball or basketball where everything is guaranteed.

I honestly don't know the specific scenario you are discussing with Singletary, but would point out that the 49's were not very successful during his time there.  Maybe benching the guy was the last straw, but he had to not be on firm ground to begin with.  At least that would be my thoughts.

(10-20-2016, 01:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Look, I'm a die hard fan and I have ALWAYS hated people who even HINTED that they wanted the team to lose. With that said, I'm fed up with Marvin Lewis as head coach. I love what he's done for the Bengals and I think he's a tremendous judge of talent  , but I'm done. I'm tired of his coaching not to lose mentality. I'm tired of his conservative approach and his insistence on doing things the way everyone else supposedly does. I'm tired of his stubborness and constant refusal to make changes until past the time they were necessary.

Admittedly, I wanted him gone after 2010 as well and I admit that I was glad he stayed on for the next 5 seasons. But, I'm done. I want a new head coach. I want a no nonsense, in your face kind of coach. I want someone who will either get a guy like Burfict under control or send him packing. I want a guy who will pull out ALL the stops when down by 3 TDs or more. I want someone who'll get in the refs face when they make a bad call.  

I am fully aware that this rainbow unicorn of a coach may not exist and even if he did, there's no certainty we'd be the team that gets him, but I'm tired of this team making the same mistakes week after week. I'm tired of doubting if we'll even beat a team like the Browns.

Maybe I'm being a tad melodramatic, but I can't help but wonder, if the best thing for the future of this team is to have a losing season and hoping that Brown or Katie either fires Lewis or Lewis decides to retire.

I'm not there, yet. I still hold out hope that we'll turn things around and go on a run and sneak into the playoffs, but there's a growing part of me that thinks otherwise.

Make no mistake, fred, I'm not saying Lewis is a bad coach. But, I do believe he's done all he can with this team and it's time for him to move on.

I understand your line of thinking Philhos i just cannot think this way... yet.

Still think this team can go on a run and make the Playoffs, if we lose once we are there AGAIN Marv should be fired no matter what.

But i think i said this last year didn't i?

You could be correct, it might be the only way we get a new HC and a new OL coach.

I do because it will mean we got RED HOT second half of season and are hitting the play-offs playing great football...That is also the ONLY way we will make the play-offs.

(10-20-2016, 02:59 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Be careful what you ask for. They'll likely hire from within, so Paul Alexander will probably be your next head coach!  

Likely just to spite the fans.

(10-21-2016, 02:06 PM)kevin Wrote: I do because it will mean we got RED HOT second half of season and are hitting the play-offs playing great football...That is also the ONLY way we will make the play-offs.

Despite my previous post about giving up I will acknowledge that we have ended seasons red hot under Marvin Lewis