(01-14-2017, 03:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Peko deserves praise for how he held down that position this year.  He was supposed to be used in a rotational manner, but ended up having to take the bulk of snaps (again) because the rookie got injured (again), and Pat Sims was too fat to play very long (again).

I believe he can still contribute very well if his snaps were reduced by 50%.  He is still a very instinctive player with a high motor.  I have no idea why he gets such hate around here (not saying that is you, Nate).  If he isn't brought back and Billings and Hardison struggle or have injuries, we will realize that it isn't easy to just plug and play a NT.  

I would give him the same two-year offer that I would Whit, but for less money.  Maybe $8-9 million for two years.  

Nah, you got me right. I have been known as a "Peko hater".

I really like Domata, great guy but he is clearly starting to fall off and we can find a NT that can just take up space.

Billings does more than take up space, he manhandles Guards and Centers and gets after the QB.

No more one trick ponys. We need DT's that can stop the run AND rush the passer.

Just like on Offense, less predictability. When Peko is in, the opposing team should pass, that is what i would do.

(01-14-2017, 03:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nah, you got me right. I have been known as a "Peko hater".

I really like Domata, great guy but he is clearly starting to fall off and we can find a NT that can just take up space.

Billings does more than take up space, he manhandles Guards and Centers and gets after the QB.

No more one trick ponys. We need DT's that can stop the run AND rush the passer.

Just like on Offense, less predictability. When Peko is in, the opposing team should pass, that is what i would do.

It is a good point, about predictability, but Peko's job is to prevent the QB to have a place to step up in the pocket.  I actually think he did a pretty good job rushing the passer this year, despite the heavy load of snaps that he played.  He isn't going to chase guys down, but most NTs aren't going to do that.

I do relish the idea of a NASCAR package, where they line up with four capable pass rushers on second and third and long, with an alignment of DUNLAP-ATKINS- HARDISON/BILLINGS- MJ/DRAFT PICK, but with Hardison and Billings both being out injured, it all fell on Peko and fat Pat.  

A speed rusher on the right side, and a more capable NT that can MOVE the pile, not just stabilize it and will also eat up double teams (which in his recent interview, he claimed "that's what I do...eat up double teams so other guys can get the QB)  will really help improve this defense, especially against its kryptonite:  maximum protection fronts.  

(01-14-2017, 04:24 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is a good point, about predictability, but Peko's job is to prevent the QB to have a place to step up in the pocket.  I actually think he did a pretty good job rushing the passer this year, despite the heavy load of snaps that he played.  He isn't going to chase guys down, but most NTs aren't going to do that.

I do relish the idea of a NASCAR package, where they line up with four capable pass rushers on second and third and long, with an alignment of DUNLAP-ATKINS- HARDISON/BILLINGS- MJ/DRAFT PICK, but with Hardison and Billings both being out injured, it all fell on Peko and fat Pat.  

A speed rusher on the right side, and a more capable NT that can MOVE the pile, not just stabilize it and will also eat up double teams (which in his recent interview, he claimed "that's what I do...eat up double teams so other guys can get the QB)  will really help improve this defense, especially against its kryptonite:  maximum protection fronts.  

Peko was good last year but not as good this year.

He is getting up there in age. It is time to move on IMHO.

Billings can do everything Peko does and more. Expecting Billings healthy next year our entire Defense should improve
with him next to Atkins. Billings can eat up double teams and disrupt more than Peko and is really young. The future bro.

If we can add Johnathan Allen, Derek Barnett or Solomon Thomas to our D-line we could be the best again.

Imagine Allen - Atkins - Billings - Dunlap

(01-14-2017, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Peko was good last year but not as good this year.

He is getting up there in age. It is time to move on IMHO.

Billings can do everything Peko does and more. Expecting Billings healthy next year our entire Defense should improve
with him next to Atkins. Billings can eat up double teams and disrupt more than Peko and is really young. The future bro.

If we can add Johnathan Allen, Derek Barnett or Solomon Thomas to our D-line we could be the best again.

Imagine Allen - Atkins - Billings - Dunlap

Unfortunately, I was looking forward to something similar last year, and it didn't happen.  You are absolutely right, though, that with a pass rushing RDE next to Billings, the weak side could end up being the better side.  

(01-14-2017, 05:56 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Unfortunately, I was looking forward to something similar last year, and it didn't happen.  You are absolutely right, though, that with a pass rushing RDE next to Billings, the weak side could end up being the better side.  

That injury pretty much put the season in doubt for me. Sucked when Billings went down.

The dude reminded me of a bigger Geno at Baylor the way he just manhandled interior lineman.

He could chase down fast RB's from behind and is so strong he can pick up a car.

Him next to Atkins would be crazy. We add another good pass rusher opposite of Dunlap and we will be good on D.

(01-15-2017, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That injury pretty much put the season in doubt for me. Sucked when Billings went down.

The dude reminded me of a bigger Geno at Baylor the way he just manhandled interior lineman.

He could chase down fast RB's from behind and is so strong he can pick up a car.

Him next to Atkins would be crazy. We add another good pass rusher opposite of Dunlap and we will be good on D.

Exactly.  And I can't tell you how much I loved his interview on Bengals Line.  I wish I had a link to post...not sure if it was recorded.  He is a very well spoken young man (He doesn't turn 21 until March!) and the way he talked about what roll he likes to play in such a matter-of-fact manner:  "I eat up double teams...and sometimes, I get to split them.  That is my challenge.  It feels really good to have two guys put on you and you beat them both" - Not a direct quote but something like that.  He talked about how he knew that if any team put one man on him to block him, he would just push him back in the QBs lap.  He said something to the effect that no one man can block him...at least he hasn't seen one yet.  

I was initially furious when the Bengals selected Vigil in Round 3 because Billings was still there, only to get him a round later (I still can't believe teams think he won't contribute because he isn't 6'5").  Now, I am thrilled to have them both.  

(01-15-2017, 03:44 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Exactly.  And I can't tell you how much I loved his interview on Bengals Line.  I wish I had a link to post...not sure if it was recorded.  He is a very well spoken young man (He doesn't turn 21 until March!) and the way he talked about what roll he likes to play in such a matter-of-fact manner:  "I eat up double teams...and sometimes, I get to split them.  That is my challenge.  It feels really good to have two guys put on you and you beat them both" - Not a direct quote but something like that.  He talked about how he knew that if any team put one man on him to block him, he would just push him back in the QBs lap.  He said something to the effect that no one man can block him...at least he hasn't seen one yet.  

I was initially furious when the Bengals selected Vigil in Round 3 because Billings was still there, only to get him a round later (I still can't believe teams think he won't contribute because he isn't 6'5").  Now, I am thrilled to have them both.  

Great quotes man. That is the thing, who are teams going to double?

Pick your poison. If we can add a DE that can rush the passer this D-line will be incredible.

Felt the exact same way about Vigil until we got Billings. Pretty sweet getting WJ3 and Billings in the same draft,
both of who i had 1st round grades. Best CB and best DT on my board. If there is something i am excited about
next year it is Defense. Look at how Guenther turned it around after the bye.

Now we get to add Billings, WJ3 and more draft picks to it for youth.

Fej didn't play bad last year either.

(01-15-2017, 03:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great quotes man. That is the thing, who are teams going to double?

Pick your poison. If we can add a DE that can rush the passer this D-line will be incredible.

Felt the exact same way about Vigil until we got Billings. Pretty sweet getting WJ3 and Billings in the same draft,
both of who i had 1st round grades. Best CB and best DT on my board. If there is something i am excited about
next year it is Defense. Look at how Guenther turned it around after the bye.

Now we get to add Billings, WJ3 and more draft picks to it for youth.

Fej didn't play bad last year either.

Agreed.  Billings, WJIII, and Vigil are like three early draft picks for next year's defense that we either didn't have at all or had in very limited action.  I am starting to envision a draft that would get the Bengals Dalvin Cook, Pat Elflein, and Taco Charlton in the first two rounds (one would have to be an AJM trade).  I think the Bengals would be in very good shape if that happened.  

Plus, with a total of 11 draft picks, not including a potential one for AJM, there will be great competition at every spot on the roster.  

(01-15-2017, 04:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed.  Billings, WJIII, and Vigil are like three early draft picks for next year's defense that we either didn't have at all or had in very limited action.  I am starting to envision a draft that would get the Bengals Dalvin Cook, Pat Elflein, and Taco Charlton in the first two rounds (one would have to be an AJM trade).  I think the Bengals would be in very good shape if that happened.  

Plus, with a total of 11 draft picks, not including a potential one for AJM, there will be great competition at every spot on the roster.  

There is definately reasons for optimism next year even with Marv back.

That would be one hell of a draft early with the McCarron trade, love it.

Would fix our running game and put our pass rush over the top. Killing two birds with one draft. :andy:

(01-15-2017, 04:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: There is definately reasons for optimism next year even with Marv back.

That would be one hell of a draft early with the McCarron trade, love it.

Would fix our running game and put our pass rush over the top. Killing two birds with one draft. :andy:

I know it is easy to be sore at Marv and co for not pulling Ced earlier, giving Sexy a chance earlier, etc.  But the majority of folks that think this is a massive rebuilding year and the Bengals are miles away from being a contender are just being negative.  I understand the frustration, believe me I do, but the core of the team is still very capable.  

You eluded to the addition of Billings, WJIII, and a faster, younger Vigil starting over older retreads as just a few things we already have for next year.  Add the draft and the Bengals, with 11 picks before any AJM trade, and they could very well be one of the top teams in the AFC again.  

This draft will not only be a blast to speculate, simulate, etc. but it will be the most critical draft since the Dalton/Green one of six years ago.  

(01-15-2017, 04:32 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know it is easy to be sore at Marv and co for not pulling Ced earlier, giving Sexy a chance earlier, etc.  But the majority of folks that think this is a massive rebuilding year and the Bengals are miles away from being a contender are just being negative.  I understand the frustration, believe me I do, but the core of the team is still very capable.  

You eluded to the addition of Billings, WJIII, and a faster, younger Vigil starting over older retreads as just a few things we already have for next year.  Add the draft and the Bengals, with 11 picks before any AJM trade, and they could very well be one of the top teams in the AFC again.  

This draft will not only be a blast to speculate, simulate, etc. but it will be the most critical draft since the Dalton/Green one of six years ago.  

We will be a good team i have no doubt. It is just frustrating when we could be the best if we made a few
changes. If we replaced Marv, PA, Haslett, Zampese with capable coaches to go with everything else we have
been saying this team could be a serious SB contender.

Things like the Ogbuehi situation, the Nuge situation just would not be acceptable with capable coaches.