We could be close. We could be. Sure we just had an off season after 5 straight play-off seasons, but we are so close. We could do so much with this draft. This draft could fills some holes to put us over the top. Here's the problem. Mike Brown and Family making even more holes. Lets go to a very recent draft of Kirkpatrick AND Zeitler in first round. We are about ready to lose both and throw that draft away and include everybody in that draft gone but late pick IIoka. Such a waste of a draft. That was to be the great Carson Palmer extra pick draft and look whats happening here. Then throw in that from the team that started 8-0 before Dalton injured we are about ready to lose 3 of those 5 offensive linemen. Both tackles in Whitworth and Andre Smith and guard Zeitler. That leaves Bodine the center and guard Boling. Losing this much of an O Line that starts 8-0 is not good. No way. So this draft has linebackers who we have needed. It may have offer the best WR or RB when we draft. Problem is, if Bengals lose Whitworth, Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, LaFell, Peko, Burkhead we go backwards. Now we have those holes to fill also. So they end up messing up this draft also. It's too bad because the 8-0 team was so close to give up on. We could bounce back in 2017. It is too early to scrap this team and rebuild.

Losing Jones and Sanu were big losses but Lafell was good and at end of season Boyd and Core came along as rookies. Add in Wright and Erickson and he have passing going into 2017, but no blocking. The tight ends that filled in for Eifert were not that bad. If we have AJ Green and Eifert, we are deep in pass catching. If we have Hill, Bernard, Burkhead we are deep in running backs. If we have Dalton and McCarron we are deep at QB. We have Atkins and Dunlap and a decent secondary and the makings of a top NFL defense. We could be tough in 2017 if we also have Whitworth, Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Lafell, Peko, Burkhead but we know some or most or all of these players will be gone and THAT will kill our chances. This one draft can NOT fill these players leaving and also fill the holes we already have.

This Draft could put us over the top but only if Mike Brown and Family keep most of these Bengals that are free agents. I don't know how they do it. All I know is they should do it. Pacman situation really messes up Mike Brown Family who signed Pacman long term but were willing to let Kirkpatrick go. A very BAD move. How do we know Jackson is healthy and are we to go with Jackson and Dennard at CB. Is that the plan. Veteran QBs will toast them. They are too green. Kirkpatrick will be a huge loss. Even bigger will be losing Whitworth or Zeitler or both. As far as I'm concerned we concede the season right there plus our QBs will get killed.

So the 8-0 start in 2015, we could bounce back and be a force in 2017, but I have huge doubts about what Mike Brown and Family are going to do. If we lose too many of our own players again in free agency as we did last year, the draft will do us no good. Plus, what good are drafts if you look at a draft of Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Still, Sanu, Jones all gone. What then is the point of drafts. It all falls on Mike Brown and Family. Not Coach Lewis or Andy Dalton, they don't sign the checks. It all falls on the heads of Mike Brown and Family now on keeping our team together and getting even better in the draft to be a power in 2017, or going cheap and this team going backwards in Mike Brown fashion. The month of March will tell if we have a good team or a lousy team in 2017. As for Mike Brown going out and getting top free agents to take the place of those he loses, that never happens. Mike will never pay out the money and too many free agents do not want to play for Mike Brown. It's sad because there finally are linebackers that we have needed in this draft, but again the Bengals may have to pass on them due to losing veterans. This draft could put us over the top, if they could resign these veterans. I hate to see the Bengals ready to lose so many veterans. This is just poor ownership and that is all it is. The Brown Family not only has play-off chances in jeopardy but possibly falling to 3 or 4 wins and getting our QBs killed. All these players should not be unsigned, just boneheaded. Their choosing to sign the much older Pacman over the younger top pick Kirkpatrick already looking brainless.

(01-24-2017, 08:12 AM)kevin Wrote: We could be close. We could be. Sure we just had an off season after 5 straight play-off seasons, but we are so close. We could  do so much with this draft.  This draft could fills some holes to put us over the top.  Here's the problem. Mike Brown and Family making even more holes.  Lets go to a very recent draft of Kirkpatrick AND Zeitler in first round. We are about ready to lose both and throw that draft away and include everybody in that draft gone but late pick IIoka. Such a waste of a draft. That was to be the great Carson Palmer extra pick draft and look whats happening here.  Then throw in that from the team that started 8-0 before Dalton injured we are about ready to lose 3 of those 5 offensive linemen. Both tackles in Whitworth and Andre Smith and guard Zeitler.  That leaves Bodine the center and guard Boling.  Losing this much of an O Line that starts 8-0 is not good. No way. So this draft has linebackers who we have needed. It may have offer the best WR or RB when we draft. Problem is, if Bengals lose Whitworth, Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, LaFell, Peko, Burkhead we go backwards. Now we have those holes to fill also.  So they end up messing up this draft also.  It's too bad because the 8-0 team was so close to give up on. We could bounce back in 2017.  It is too early to scrap this team and rebuild.  

Losing Jones and Sanu were big losses but Lafell was good and at end of season Boyd and Core came along as rookies. Add in Wright and Erickson and he have passing going into 2017, but no blocking.  The tight ends that filled in for Eifert were not that bad. If we have AJ Green and Eifert, we are deep in pass catching.  If we have Hill, Bernard, Burkhead we are deep in running backs. If we have Dalton and McCarron we are deep at QB.  We have Atkins and Dunlap and a decent secondary and the makings of a top NFL defense.  We could be tough in 2017 if we also have Whitworth, Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Lafell, Peko, Burkhead but we know some or most or all of these players will be gone and THAT will kill our chances. This one draft can NOT fill these players leaving and also fill the holes we already have.

This Draft could put us over the top but only if Mike Brown and Family keep most of these Bengals that are free agents. I don't know how they do it. All I know is they should do it. Pacman situation really messes up Mike Brown Family who signed Pacman long term but were willing to let Kirkpatrick go. A very BAD move. How do we know Jackson is healthy and are we to go with Jackson and Dennard at CB. Is that the plan. Veteran QBs will toast them. They are too green. Kirkpatrick will be a huge loss.  Even bigger will be losing Whitworth or Zeitler or both. As far as I'm concerned we concede the season right there plus our QBs will get killed.

So the 8-0 start in 2015, we could bounce back and be a force in 2017, but I have huge doubts about what Mike Brown and Family are going to do. If we lose too many of our own players again in free agency as we did last year, the draft will do us no good.  Plus, what good are drafts if you look at a draft of Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Still, Sanu, Jones all gone. What then is the point of drafts.  It all falls on Mike Brown and Family. Not Coach Lewis or Andy Dalton, they don't sign the checks. It all falls on the heads of Mike Brown and Family now on keeping our team together and getting even better in the draft to be a power in 2017, or going cheap and this team going backwards in Mike Brown fashion. The month of March will tell if we have a good team or a lousy team in 2017.  As for Mike Brown going out and getting top free agents to take the place of those he loses, that never happens. Mike will never pay out the money and too many free agents do not want to play for Mike Brown. It's sad because there finally are linebackers that we have needed in this draft, but again the Bengals may have to pass on them due to losing veterans.  This draft could put us over the top, if they could resign these veterans. I hate to see the Bengals ready to lose so many veterans. This is just poor ownership and that is all it is.  The Brown Family not only has play-off chances in jeopardy but possibly falling to 3 or 4 wins and getting our QBs killed.  All these players should not be unsigned, just boneheaded. Their choosing to sign the much older Pacman over the younger top pick Kirkpatrick already looking brainless.

The Bengals still have Brandon Thompson from the 2012 draft class. Since Thompson was never activated in 2016, his 1-year deal rolls over to 2017.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/23/14351076/bengals-dt-brandon-thompson-not-a-free-agent-in-2017

Also, why do you think that the Bengals are going to have Zeitler and Kirkpatrick walk? And Whitworth too?
There is no evidence to back up this claim of yours, as the Bengals have always put forth effort to keep their own good players if anything. It was reported that Marvin Jones had practically the same offer from the Bengals, but he wanted a change of scenery and opportunity to emerge as a WR1. Reggie Nelson was reportedly offered a comparable deal too but chose to leave. If the Bengals re-signed Nelson, Jones, or Sanu with anything more than the deals they actually received from other teams, everyone would be complaining that the Bengals overpaid.

It sounds more like you are just paranoid and are already in doom-and-gloom mode.

So now we're into complaining about losing players that haven't left yet?

What really hurts about Mike Brown right now (to me at least) is his stubborn refusal to part ways with Marvin. Mike has done a lot of stupid things in the past, but keeping Marvin this long is slowly rising to the top 3 worst things he's ever done as an owner

(01-24-2017, 04:43 PM)jason Wrote: So now we're into complaining about losing players that haven't left yet?

Fair critique of the OP, but would any of be surprised if it was indeed the case?  I don't see it all happening that way, but then again, it's Son of Paul, and I wouldn't be totally shocked.

I hope your optimism of being close is right. Because I think they are anything but close with the recent drafts the last few years. If they want to make a serious run next year, they have got to hit on a couple of draft picks to make an immediate impact while getting a couple of free agents to do the same s to speak.

I don't think we are close. I think 2015 was our best chance and well, you know...

I think we might be on a backwards slide. I have serious doubts about being able to patch the multitude of holes in one draft.

Traditionally, Marvin does have better years after down years. And he will have a third place schedule. But doesn't it just feel like other teams are passing us up?

(01-24-2017, 04:43 PM)jason Wrote: So now we're into complaining about losing players that haven't left yet?

Yes, you bet....because we lost too many veterans last March and have way too many veterans unsigned going into this March.  Not just bench warmer veterans but too many starters hitting Free Agency.  Losing veteran starters last March cast us from play-offs to 6 wins. Losing many of these veteran starters again this year will cast us from 6 wins to a 3 win season.  This is not Coach Lewis or Andy Dalton, it is Mike Brown and Family who really hold this team back.  I do NOT see Mike Brown and Family getting Kirkpatrick, Whitworth, Zeitler, Peko, Lafell, Burkhead all resigned. I see Mike Brown and Family creating major weaknesses at CB and at O Line.  If you think Mike Brown and Family resigns all of them, you have more faith in them than I do.  Of Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Whitworth I'll be surprised if one isn't Franchise Tagged and two of them end up on other teams.  If they tag Burkhead, we lose all three. ....Mike Brown and Family should have NEVER had this many key players unsigned back in August. THAT is the problem. It will be much harder to sign them now as their agents want to test the free agent waters for more money. SHOULD have had more of these players signed in August. We lost so many vet starters last year, it makes this year even more scary because back to back years would kill us.

(01-24-2017, 06:06 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I hope your optimism of being close is right. Because I think they are anything but close with the recent drafts the last few years. If they want to make a serious run next year, they have got to hit on a couple of draft picks to make an immediate impact while getting a couple of free agents to do the same s to speak.

The OP makes good points. Although, I would prefer the Reader's Digest version. IMO the Bengals can NOT fix all the missing parts in this one draft. Keeping Peko and Maulaluga is a lazy choice too. To my point, this team will be no better than some of the recent one-and-out teams AT BEST. So unless the Brown family honestly wants to "go big" we are in for more of the same.

Cutting Pacman might help the Bengals with keeping Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick.

(01-24-2017, 06:12 PM)McC Wrote: I don't think we are close.  I think 2015 was our best chance and well, you know...

I think we might be on a backwards slide.  I have serious doubts about being able to patch the multitude of holes in one draft.

Traditionally, Marvin does have better years after down years.  And he will have a third place schedule.  But doesn't it just feel like other teams are passing us up?

Its felt that way for a long time, but the Falcons in the SB specifically makes it really feel like we haven't done shit from a personnel perspective in a long time.  I like Duke as much as the next guy.  I think he's done a wonderful job with what he's been given.  But there is just no way in hell that team can produce at the same level as other organizations that dedicate many more resources to it.  

Everyone do me a favor and compare the following.  Pay special attention to the scouting departments :

Cincinnati Bengals Staff

Atlanta Falcons Staff

I say this because I know an individual listed on the Falcons staff page.  He has outright told me the Bengals scouting process is laughable at best.  

I've thought about making a separate thread about this in the past, but I can't take the NFL mission to 'put the best product on the field' when the entirety of a teams 'administration' is listed on the 'presidents' do not resuscitate document.  HOLY ***** HELL

Yikes. The Falcons have 17 scouts alone. 10 "football operations" people not including their GM. They have categories the Bengals don't even have. Just by glancing over the lists, I'd say the Falcons employ more than double the people the Bengals do, and I don't see many family members.

We all know Bengals ownership sucks, but that puts it in even more depressing clarity.

Kevin I don't think we're really that close. And I don't think Mikey will do what's necessary to turn it around this coming season either.

We have so many positions that need upgraded and holes that need filled ! The draft alone isn't going to get it done, IMHO. And we all know Mikey doesn't do upper tier free agents. I'm afraid we're heading into another down year. Mikey is retaining Marvin and I doubt the roster sees anything other than minor moves.

I'm not sure at this point what if anything will wake Mike Brown up ?

The Bengals were spoiled from 1970-1991 with Paul Brown on the sideline and in the Front Office. They didn't need anyone else.

(01-24-2017, 09:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yikes. The Falcons have 17 scouts alone. 10 "football operations" people not including their GM. They have categories the Bengals don't even have. Just by glancing over the lists, I'd say the Falcons employ more than double the people the Bengals do, and I don't see many family members.

We all know Bengals ownership sucks, but that puts it in even more depressing clarity.

Man they have an "athletic performance" staff puts ours to shame. Holy hell this is embarrassing

(01-24-2017, 09:35 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Kevin I don't think we're really that close. And I don't think Mikey will do what's necessary to turn it around this coming season either.

We have so many positions that need upgraded and holes that need filled ! The draft alone isn't going to get it done, IMHO. And we all know Mikey doesn't do upper tier free agents. I'm afraid we're heading into another down year. Mikey is retaining Marvin and I doubt the roster sees anything other than minor moves.

I'm not sure at this point what if anything will wake Mike Brown up ?

Mike is 84, so I fear he's not due for any life-altering epiphany.  At this point I genuinely feel that the only chance for revolutionary change with this organization will occur after his death.  With Katie.  Maybe.  

(01-24-2017, 06:17 PM)kevin Wrote:  Losing veteran starters last March cast us from play-offs to 6 wins. Losing many of these veteran starters again this year will cast us from 6 wins to a 3 win season.  This is not Coach Lewis or Andy Dalton, it is Mike Brown and Family who really hold this team back.  

Calling BS!

Kicker lost us at least 3 games and the coaching was the worst we've ever seen. Your diving head first off the positivity bridge. Mourning so-to-speak. Yet that's ok but most of us have already been through that process and recovered. You will be fine in a few days and be back to positive Kevin.

Come back Friday with a smile and something good to say or we're gonna get you drunk, paint your nails, smear mayonnaise on your face and take pictures to post all over the internets!

Roster turnover is a part of the NFL. We havent won jack shit with these guys. Every single one is replaceable.

Not saying i dont want to retain our good players. But there are more out there.

(01-24-2017, 10:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Roster turnover is a part of the NFL. We havent won jack shit with these guys. Every single one is replaceable.

Not saying i dont want to retain our good players. But there are more out there.

I feel the same way man.

They pretty much need Whit back (and a prayer that his play doesn't fall off a cliff with age), but the rest of them are replaceable. I'd tag Dre, and hope for another "contract year" out of him, then reevaluate the CB position next off-season. I'd like LaFell back for a year, and I'd hate to lose Rex or Zietler... Maybe they can keep those guys if they lose enough dead weight.

(01-24-2017, 09:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yikes. The Falcons have 17 scouts alone. 10 "football operations" people not including their GM. They have categories the Bengals don't even have. Just by glancing over the lists, I'd say the Falcons employ more than double the people the Bengals do, and I don't see many family members.

We all know Bengals ownership sucks, but that puts it in even more depressing clarity.

It's embarrassing really. I'm going to waste a few hours and do a full breakdown tomorrow. Bottom line is they should be FORCED to sell the team given they don't give a flying **** about the product on the field.