(03-25-2017, 01:13 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd say Jones was an above average #2 while LaFell is an average #2. Not a huge difference though.

A lot of people paint Jones like he was a game changer and I just didn't see it.

You are probably right and believe his acrobatic catches sometimes made him look more spectacular than he may have been. 

i dont want another receiver. I've been yammering for a DL guy for years. But... I think they'll take an offensive guy with the first. Whoever they think will be red zone.

Some people just cried so much last year when we signed "a bum like LaFell" and "let a superstar walk" that they can not admit they were wrong.

LaFell was on of the better #2 WRs in the league.  Ever WR in the league has good games and bad games.  You have to look at the full season.  LaFell was even able to be productive when the opposing defense keyed on him as the #1 WR.

(03-24-2017, 08:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Something many people forget is he played hurt all year with his hand.. plus a total professional.. i love the story when he was out banged up, realized too few WRs dressed for a practice,, went back got dressed and practice.. that is that type of guy you want to have on your team and playing 2/3 WR for you.

Always thought he sounded like a good fella. Didn't know that, thanks Essex. :andy:

(03-24-2017, 08:50 PM)Jpoore Wrote: You mean cbs like lattimore or humphries or conley? 3 first round corners? Williams ran a 4.49-4.53. At 4.49 thats faster than aj while being heavier.

Thanks for finally giving me Mike Williams forty. Alright, all for Mike now.

I was concerned when he didn't run the forty at the combine, this makes me feel much better about taking him.

Still like Ross's speed, who wouldn't? 4.22 is incredible.

(03-25-2017, 09:15 AM)Benton Wrote: i dont want another receiver. I've been yammering for a DL guy for years. But... I think they'll take an offensive guy with the first. Whoever they think will be red zone.

Why do you think that Benton? All signs have been pointing to DE.

It has been brought up a lot how we had one of the oldest Defenses in the league last year...

The only way i see us not going End is if the top 3 are all gone and even then Taco will be there.

(03-25-2017, 02:42 AM)Jpoore Wrote: while jones wasnt a game changer on a game to game basis, he did have the abilty to take over games. Lafell does not and i think thats the big differnce between them.

Aside from the fluke 4 TD game against the Jets in 2013, when did Marvin Jones take over a game as a Bengal? 

For his entire career, he has a grand total of four 100 yard games out of 62 games played, including playoffs. (6.5% of all games)

LaFell has six 100 yard games out of 109 games played, including playoffs. (5.5% of all games)

So if both play 100 games (more than 6 full seasons), Marvin Jones might have one more 100 yard game than LaFell. Neither are taking over games much.

(03-25-2017, 01:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Aside from the fluke 4 TD game against the Jets in 2013, when did Marvin Jones take over a game as a Bengal? 

For his entire career, he has a grand total of four 100 yard games out of 62 games played, including playoffs. (6.5% of all games)

LaFell has six 100 yard games out of 109 games played, including playoffs. (5.5% of all games)

So if both play 100 games (more than 6 full seasons), Marvin Jones might have one more 100 yard game than LaFell. Neither are taking over games much.

Jpoore has an obvious bias against Lafell Shake.

I think Marvin Jones is an elite #2 WR and a better player than Lafells. With that being said Lafell is good as well an a solid player in his own right.

(03-25-2017, 05:55 PM)J24 Wrote: I think Marvin Jones is an elite #2 WR and a better player than Lafells. With that being said Lafell is good as well an a solid player in his own right.

Well I think the Bengals thought the same and offered him a solid deal..but when he passed I really think the Bengals did a very good move with Lafell.. Im glad they resigned him and I think he will be better this year after a year in system and a healed hand...

(03-25-2017, 07:52 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well I think the Bengals thought the same and offered him a solid deal..but when he passed I really think the Bengals did a very good move with Lafell.. Im glad they resigned him and I think he will be better this year after a year in system and a healed hand...

I'll put it this way, I'm glad we got LaFell for what amounts to 3 years and 12 million worth in contracts, compared to the silly contract Marvin got. I don't see much difference talent or production-wise, but even Jones homers have to admit that LaFell is a better value at the very least.

He's an answer, but I still think a piece is missing. LaFell is a fine number 2 that runs good routes and can catch in traffic. can't hate anything about that. Another bonus is that he's not a guy that relies on speed to get it done. He should age well, ala Anquan Boldin.

Still think they need a burner to run deep routes opposite AJ. I think that guy will be on the team by the end of April.

(03-25-2017, 12:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for finally giving me Mike Williams forty. Alright, all for Mike now.

I was concerned when he didn't run the forty at the combine, this makes me feel much better about taking him.

Still like Ross's speed, who wouldn't? 4.22 is incredible.

It is but andy will underthrow a lot. Love andy but tends to underthrow most deep balls. Thats why i prefer williams.

(03-25-2017, 01:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Aside from the fluke 4 TD game against the Jets in 2013, when did Marvin Jones take over a game as a Bengal? 

For his entire career, he has a grand total of four 100 yard games out of 62 games played, including playoffs. (6.5% of all games)

LaFell has six 100 yard games out of 109 games played, including playoffs. (5.5% of all games)

So if both play 100 games (more than 6 full seasons), Marvin Jones might have one more 100 yard game than LaFell. Neither are taking over games much.

Idk where ur getting 62 games? He missed the entire 2014 season, plus he missed part of the 2013 season. Its more like 40 games played. And jones took over buffalo game if im not mistaken in 2015. He has the ability and has done it. when did lafell just dominate?

(03-25-2017, 01:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Jpoore has an obvious bias against Lafell Shake.

What i wouldnt give to actually like lafell. Just cant do it. Its weird i liked him his whole career. When he gets here i dont. Just disappears to much for me. With everyone healthy he wont break 600 yards and thats a problem to me.

(03-25-2017, 12:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Why do you think that Benton? All signs have been pointing to DE.

It has been brought up a lot how we had one of the oldest Defenses in the league last year...

The only way i see us not going End is if the top 3 are all gone and even then Taco will be there.

I'm backpedaling on it now.

I really thought we would stick with our status quo, dont give up big plays but let them ding you on short yarders approach. It looks like we're going in a different direction on defense. Finally. So a DL or a lb makes sense if we're reinvigorating the d.

(03-26-2017, 01:57 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Idk where ur getting 62 games? He missed the entire 2014 season, plus he missed part of the 2013 season. Its more like 40 games played. And jones took over buffalo game if im not mistaken in 2015. He has the ability and has done it.  when did lafell just dominate?
What i wouldnt give to actually like lafell. Just cant do it. Its weird i liked him his whole career. When he gets here i dont. Just disappears to much for me. With everyone healthy he wont break 600 yards and thats a problem to me.

I said "entire career", meaning his season with the Lions as well. If you only want to include their time with the Bengals, it gets even worse for Marvin. 

Then it's only two 100 yard games out of 46 (4.3%). His only 100 yard game in regular season was that fluke 4 TD game. 

Check it out for yourself bud:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneMa02.htm

You can search for Marvin's 100 yard games under "game logs". 

(03-26-2017, 01:57 AM)Jpoore Wrote: It is but andy will underthrow a lot. Love andy but tends to underthrow most deep balls. Thats why i prefer williams.

False. At the midway point of last season, Dalton was ranked 4th by PFF in deep passing. He was 2nd in deep passing yards and AJ led the league in deep yards. 

I can't find end of season numbers, but it's hard to imagine him going from 4th to somehow being in the negative.

Quote:4. Andy Dalton, Cincinnati Bengals


The urgency to get the ball downfield to A.J. Green started early in the season, and has not slowed down for Andy Dalton through eight weeks. He’s currently second in deep-passing yards, with 697, as 56 percent of his deep-throw completions have found Green, who’s shown to be the game’s best deep-ball threat this season (first in deep-receiving yards, with 379). Dalton has been efficient on his 39 attempts, sitting in the top 10 in both adjusted completion percentage on deep passes, at 51.3, and quarterback rating, at 120.4. Ken Zampese’s aggressive play calls to push the ball vertically have Dalton tied for the sixth-highest deep-attempt percentage, at 13.5. What’s been most impressive, though, is that Dalton has done all of this without the presence of a true No. 2 receiver. Having a healthy Tyler Eifert back in the mix—with the tight ends’ ability to stretch the field from a number of positions—will help this offense attack in ways it would prefer to, as it appears the unit will need to carry the load down the stretch for a defense that is currently struggling.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season/


Aside from maybe one year near the bottom, Dalton has always been in the middle or even near the top in deep passing.

(03-26-2017, 11:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: False. At the midway point of last season, Dalton was ranked 4th by PFF in deep passing. He was 2nd in deep passing yards and AJ led the league in deep yards. 

I can't find end of season numbers, but it's hard to imagine him going from 4th to somehow being in the negative.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-10-best-deep-passers-this-season/


Aside from maybe one year near the bottom, Dalton has always been in the middle or even near the top in deep passing.

Myth busting raised to an art form.  

(03-23-2017, 09:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good does not win playoff games or challenge for the Super Bowl.  A vertical threat to pair with AJ Green is the missing piece.  It makes it impossible for a defense to crowd the line by forcing them to defend every inch of the field.  No one had to double LaFell or Jones, that is why they posted respectable numbers. 

It isn't just the position group, but the player rankings at #9.  If Garrett, Barnett, and Thomas are gone, there won't be a DE there that is worth the pick.  Nor will there be a OT, G, C, DT, LB, or QB (for us).  That largely leaves Howard the TE, a couple of RBs (who are really good, but Cook has character issues),  one of two safeties (we have long-term contracts on our two, but one could make the argument for Hooker), CB (let's do it again!), or WR.  Both Ross and Davis are transcendent talents.  

It would be like having two #1 WRs to pair with some really good TEs (if they can stay healthy).  

I agree with you. I would look for John Ross if Barnett is gone. I don't think he will be, so I think the pick is between Ross and Barnett with the edge clearly going to Barnett. Foster is the leading candidate to fall on day 1 in my opinion, I think the Minter signing pretty much guarantees we don't take him.

(03-26-2017, 01:57 AM)Jpoore Wrote: It is but andy will underthrow a lot. Love andy but tends to underthrow most deep balls. Thats why i prefer williams.

What i wouldnt give to actually like lafell. Just cant do it. Its weird i liked him his whole career. When he gets here i dont. Just disappears to much for me. With everyone healthy he wont break 600 yards and thats a problem to me.

Dalton is a fine deep ball passer as Shake just shown, sometimes he underthrows AJ so he doesn't overthrow him
which is smart. Have to complete the pass first, can't always hit a receiver totally in stride, even the best QB's of all
time don't always do this.

Don't know why you don't like Lafell here either, he did all was asked of him last year. It was his first year in the
system, he had a hurt hand, he is a great teammate and great insurance if AJ goes down like he did last year.

Still would be happy with one of the top 3 WR's at 9 though if the Ends are gone now that you shown me Mike's forty.

Then we can work on the Lines from the 2nd on.

(03-26-2017, 06:27 AM)Benton Wrote: I'm backpedaling on it now.

I really thought we would stick with our status quo, dont give up big plays but let them ding you on short yarders approach. It looks like we're going in a different direction on defense. Finally. So a DL or a lb makes sense if we're reinvigorating the d.

Yeah, all signs are pointing to an End. Barnett is the most likely right now. A pure pass rusher on the other side of
Dunlap could make this Defense one of the best. We have been lacking this for awhile now. Getting Minter i think
lessens the chance of a LB in the first IMHO. But it is only a 1 year deal, so it might not.

(03-25-2017, 10:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll put it this way, I'm glad we got LaFell for what amounts to 3 years and 12 million worth in contracts, compared to the silly contract Marvin got. I don't see much difference talent or production-wise, but even Jones homers have to admit that LaFell is a better value at the very least.

Us Bengals fans sure love using the value argument lol


I agree tho. But its just funny. Marvin was clearly the more gifted and talented WR. But the way our system is ran I don't think we ever need to heavily invest in a 2nd WR.


Now that kid Mike Williams changes a lot. That guy is getting compared to AJ Green.


You DONT pass that up at WR EVER. That's a guy you even trade up for.


If the best 2 DEs are already gone and the best linebacker is off the board already, then wed be the dumbest team ever to not pick Mike at 9


Best case scenario he is as advertised and pulls in an AJ Green like rookie year. Worst case he underwhelms but his raw talent alone still make him the starter he just doesn't do as well as we though t

(03-26-2017, 03:49 PM)Housh Wrote: Us Bengals fans sure love using the value argument lol


I agree tho. But its just funny. Marvin was clearly the more gifted and talented WR. But the way our system is ran I don't think we ever need to heavily invest in a 2nd WR.


Now that kid Mike Williams changes a lot. That guy is getting compared to AJ Green.


You DONT pass that up at WR EVER. That's a guy you even trade up for.


If the best 2 DEs are already gone and the best linebacker is off the board already, then wed be the dumbest team ever to not pick Mike at 9


Best case scenario he is as advertised and pulls in an AJ Green like rookie year. Worst case he underwhelms but his raw talent alone still make him the starter he just doesn't do as well as we though t

Well I'm not always using the "value" argument, but it's valid here. We'll just have to disagree on the difference in talent. Jones had a really weak season for Detroit.

He's not cut out for the #1 role, and even if he was a top 5 #2 WR, he should've been able to put up great numbers in that pass obsessed Detroit offense.