(04-09-2017, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a minority of second round picks are starters.  I think it was onloy 10 of 32 last year.

So roughly a 30% chance we pick a starter if we move him vs 100% we don't pick a starter if we don't make the trade if it's offered. AJ is a backup

If someone is really dumb enough to offer us a 2 for a 5th round pick who hasn't showed much in the pros I would jump on it.

(04-09-2017, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a minority of second round picks are starters.  I think it was only 10 of 32 last year.

And QB is the modt important position on the team.  So the back up QB is much more important than back ups at other positions.

Look, if the Bengals get a second round pick for McCarron, I'd be fine with that.  But I don't see the success of the team hanging on an extra second round pick, so I won't be upset if we do not trade him.

One of their biggest needs is a pass rushing DE, a player that may not even start over MJ anyway.  No matter if it's a rotational DE, LB, slot WR, etc... they don't have to start the game.  Add in a "backup" rusher like McKinnley or Harris and it makes an impact.

(04-09-2017, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a minority of second round picks are starters.  I think it was only 10 of 32 last year.

And QB is the modt important position on the team.  So the back up QB is much more important than back ups at other positions.

Look, if the Bengals get a second round pick for McCarron, I'd be fine with that.  But I don't see the success of the team hanging on an extra second round pick, so I won't be upset if we do not trade him.

I read somewhere too that only 40% of 1st Round picks ever become starters.

People tend to view the draft as their favorite team getting 7 new starters in time...but realistically if you get 2 quality starters out of any draft...you've done fairly well...and if you get 3-4 you had a great draft.

(04-09-2017, 02:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: If someone is really dumb enough to offer us a 2 for a 5th round pick who hasn't showed much in the pros I would jump on it.

It's still a terrible trade for just a 2nd rounder.  When Atlanta traded Matt Schaub to the Texans, he had only 2 career starts in three seasons.  Those were a loss to New Orleans in which he went 17/41 for 188 yards, 0 TD's, 2 Int's, and a QBR of 35.4 and a loss to New England where he went 18/34 for 298 yards, 3 TD's, 0 Int's, and a 112.1 QBR.  The guy had never won an NFL game, was a year removed from his last start, and netted 2 2nd round picks.  Also keep in mind that Schaub was only under contract for one season at that time, while McCarron is effectively controlled for 2 years. A second is well below market value.

(04-09-2017, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I believe it will hurt us if Dalton gets injured.

If Dalton gets hurt it will hurt us regardless if McCarron is here.

Dude hasn't won a game against a winning team and only played okay when we did win, not like he set the world on fire.

I don't get this thought process, get something for the guy to help the team while he has value.

(04-09-2017, 01:10 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Which has happened a total of 2 times?


His first game against Cleveland he missed a quarter or 2.

Then the freak thumb injury while he was playing linebacker.

Are you really that afraid he is going to get injured that you don't want to improve our starters by trading a bench rider? We are picking at #9 and you want to keep a luxury. There are other capable backups out there we can sign but how many backups do teams look at as a starter?

Most definately.

(04-09-2017, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only a minority of second round picks are starters.  I think it was only 10 of 32 last year.

And QB is the modt important position on the team.  So the back up QB is much more important than back ups at other positions.

Look, if the Bengals get a second round pick for McCarron, I'd be fine with that.  But I don't see the success of the team hanging on an extra second round pick, so I won't be upset if we do not trade him.

So what. McCarron isn't a starter. Get someone that might be eventually.

(04-07-2017, 02:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/4/7/15218890/browns-interested-in-aj-mccarron-per-report


I know this sounds like it probably came from months ago, but this was just reported yesterday and updated today.
What might be going on is that the Browns didn't get a chance to land Garoppolo and might not be too high on the crop of QBs that they are seeing in this draft class (no surprise). Therefore, there could be more buzz happening with this than initially thought.

All of this might just be a smokescreen too or just speculation on Cabot's part, but I'm interested in seeing what (if anything) happens over the next three weeks leading up to the draft.

If the Browns offer us pick # 1, sure....Pick # 33, probably.....Pick, # 52 maybe......Pick # 65, still tempting.....Pick # 108, probably not. 

Now here are problems. AJ McCarron knows our playbook and Daltons line audibles too well. He just knows our offense and defense too well. Plus we would play him twice a year, every year and what if he gets real good and beats the heck out of us twice a year, every year.  This is why trading inside your own division is so risky.  Plus with our O line needing a lot of fixing before now and September, maybe we need a solid back-up QB in case Dalton gets clobbered. 

Still, I look for this to be McCarrons last season here.  If we can get Pick 1 or Pick 33, I would do it.  If we can get Pick 52 or Pick 65, I might still do it because there are decent QBs in the draft in mid to late rounds.  I would also make a call to RG3 and agent about being Daltons back-up at back-up QB pay.  RG3 knows Browns offense, so it's a trade off, plus we have had worse back-ups than RG3.  

So Pick 1 or Pick 33 and I trade him and get a very, very top draft pick.  Myles Garrett in a Bengals uniform, sure.  The top pick in Round 2 is like a first round pick and a ton of talent at pick 33.  ...even 52 or 65, I have to consider a trade. 

If Browns continue as they have, they will never really give McCarron much of a chance as they switch QB's 2 or 3 times in 2017 and by 2018 they will be drafting yet another QB.  In Cleveland, if you don't win the Super Bowl by third week in the season they bench you. Since it's impossible to win Super Bowl in September, this is why Cleveland has a weird revolving door of quarterbacks system. 

Really, Cleveland has so many needs they could use Pick 1, Pick 33, Pick 52, Pick 65, Pick 108 and all their picks to let Hue Jackson rebuild. The problem is they fire coaches almost as often as they change quarterbacks.  Don't be surprised if Browns don't fire Hue and he ends up back in Cincy in 2018.  The pattern would be for Cleveland to dump Hue and McCarron after 2017.  It's what they do and why they never leave last place. 

Now for the silly one. What if they offer Zeitler for McCarron ? Mike Brown would say only if they pay a big part of his highest paid guard ever salary.

For either Pick 1 or Pick 33, they could have McCarron. Maybe even Pick 52 or Pick 65 if that means we can draft an Ethan Pocic as a Center / Guard or another eye opening player pick there. If Bengals had Pick 9, Pick 33 and Pick 41 and Pick 73, man could we load up in the draft. Get RG3 on the phone and lets talk back up QB pay and not what he made at Washington, back-up QB pay.

(04-09-2017, 01:10 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Which has happened a total of 2 times?


His first game against Cleveland he missed a quarter or 2.

Then the freak thumb injury while he was playing linebacker.

Are you really that afraid he is going to get injured that you don't want to improve our starters by trading a bench rider? We are picking at #9 and you want to keep a luxury. There are other capable backups out there we can sign but how many backups do teams look at as a starter?

what capable backup is out there?

(04-09-2017, 03:46 PM)Benton Wrote: what capable backup is out there?

For Pick 1 or Pick 33, get me RG3 on the phone and lets talk back-up QB pay, not what he made at Washington.  That or draft a mid round QB.   Pick 52 or Pick 65 and an Ethan Pocic still on the boards as a Center or Guard, give me that phone.  RG3, we have a back-up job at back-up pay. That or draft a mid round QB. .....They couldn't be dumb enough to trade us #1 and put Myles Garrett on the same line with Atkins and Dunlap, or are they. ....Pick 33.  Pick 9 and Pick 33 and Pick 41. Man could we add great talent to this team.  .....Even Pick 52 or 65 are tempting if a Pocic or another top player on the boards. 

(04-09-2017, 04:05 PM)kevin Wrote: For Pick 1 or Pick 33, get me RG3 on the phone and lets talk back-up QB pay, not what he made at Washington.  That or draft a mid round QB.   Pick 52 or Pick 65 and an Ethan Pocic still on the boards as a Center or Guard, give me that phone.  RG3, we have a back-up job at back-up pay. That or draft a mid round QB. .....They couldn't be dumb enough to trade us #1 and put Myles Garrett on the same line with Atkins and Dunlap, or are they. ....Pick 33.  Pick 9 and Pick 33 and Pick 41. Man could we add great talent to this team.  .....Even Pick 52 or 65 are tempting if a Pocic or another top player on the boards. 

I would take RG3 as a backup.

(04-09-2017, 03:46 PM)Benton Wrote: what capable backup is out there?

RGIII, Gabbert and Yates are all solid backups imo.

Shaun Hilll is kind of old so I left him out.

Fitzpatrick and Kaepernick might end up being backups.

(04-09-2017, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't get this thought process, get something for the guy to help the team while he has value.

He has value for us.

(04-09-2017, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So what. McCarron isn't a starter. Get someone that might be eventually.

McCarron could be our #1 QB after the first play of the season.


The thought process I don't get is this.  "All back up QBs are exactly the same.  The very best one has no better chance of winning a game than the very worst one."

Andy Dalton has started 77 out of 81 games in his career.

95.06% chance Dalton does not get hurt this season.

There is a very low chance we will need our backup QB this season to do anything other than know the playbook and ride the pine.

(04-09-2017, 04:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He has value for us.


McCarron could be our #1 QB after the first play of the season.


The thought process I don't get is this.  "All back up QBs are exactly the same.  The very best one has no better chance of winning a game than the very worst one."

Not more than a player that could benefit us immediately and it is much more likely that an early 2nd rounder would.

That is not my thought process, McCarron is a good backup QB and they are good to have.

But if we can add an impact player for a guy that will MOST LIKELY be riding the bench i think you should do it.

Don't understand why a Bengal fan would be against improving the team.

(04-09-2017, 01:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: As far as the backup QB goes, look up Driscoll's college career.  The Bengals felt strongly enough about him to keep him on the roster the entire season.  He was able to learn the offense last year, and will get more experience this year as a part of our OTAs.  

I'm not saying he is McCarron, but he also never had the supporting offensive cast that McCarron did, either.  I like the guy.  

True, Njoku, Cam Robinson, and McCafferty may all be gone at #33, but someone of Pro Bowl Caliber talent will be sitting there...I guarantee it.  And that player contributing is worth much more than AJM on the bench.  

There may be 1 or 2 players drafted in round  2 of the 2017 draft (in a few years from now and unlikely immediately) who make the pro bowl on 2 or 3 years, but the question is who are they? It is easy to look back and say 3 or 4 2nd round picks became pro bowl players out of one draft once we see the future, but of 32 teams the odds are poor we or any NFL team pick the right guy.

(04-09-2017, 05:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There may be 1 or 2 players drafted in round  2 of the 2017 draft (in a few years from now and unlikely immediately) who make the pro bowl on 2 or 3 years, but the question is who are they? It is easy to look back and say 3 or 4 2nd round picks became pro bowl players out of one draft, but of 32 teams the odds are poor we or any NFL team pick the right guy.

Would say odds of a back up QB becoming a solid NFL QB is unlikely as well. Let alone a pro bowl player. 

Think it is worth the risk. 

(04-09-2017, 04:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not more than a player that could benefit us immediately and it is much more likely that an early 2nd rounder would.

That is not my thought process, McCarron is a good backup QB and they are good to have.

But if we can add an impact player for a guy that will MOST LIKELY be riding the bench i think you should do it.

Don't understand why a Bengal fan would be against improving the team.

the list of players Marvin gave significant playing time to as a rookie is short. Its more likely for ajm to start this season than a second round rookie.

(04-09-2017, 06:29 PM)Benton Wrote: the list of players Marvin gave significant playing time to as a rookie is short. Its more likely for ajm to start this season than a second round rookie.

That's true also. But Marvin may be feeling the pressure this year and if Andy goes down we are probably sunk anyway. I believe the single most critical factor is the o line and no one knows what to expect from it.

If the bengals are looking at def end or wr at 1 and Mixon at 2 why not get that extra 2nd if possible and get all 3?



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I think we've talked this thread out. No one is going to budge on how they look at this and at this point it's getting repetitive.

Im one who prefers having a good backup QB because what if we didn't have a good backup 2 years ago when we faced the Steelers in the playoffs? We lose that game by 40 and get utterly embarrassed. McCarron gave us a REAL chance to win.

But on the flipside if someone offers up a pick that we deem to be of greater value than having a really good backup QB then so be it. I wont even THINK about the deal. Right now my idea of pick too valuable to ignore would be a 4th rounder and up. 2 5th round picks and im doing the deal as well. Maybe even one honestly.


Going into a season with 2 decent QBs on the roster is never a bad thing