(04-25-2017, 11:13 AM)packerbacker Wrote: You guys will be back this season. Your a great football team.

I'm thinking of selling it...  you interested?

(04-25-2017, 05:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yet, still only 43.75% (14 of 32) of the league won a Super Bowl the past 26 years. So, the reality is we are in the bottom with 56.25% of the teams the past 26 years. So, over half the league in a time of parity was very bad.

I agree, we should have won at least 2 home playoff games (Chargers and Steelers) and choked.

But 73% of the teams have been to the Super Bowl. 2 expansion teams haven't and they count in that 27% that haven't.

26 teams have 5+ playoff wins since we last have. We've won exactly 5 playoff games in our 50 years as a franchise.

(04-25-2017, 01:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: They were a Shell of the 2015 team.

see Post #67

All I see are excuses in that post. Maybe you could actually address some of my points in post #66?

(04-25-2017, 04:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It just moves the monkey if no Super Bowl is won. If we win a playoff game, then it will be downplayed as no Super Bowl win so short of hoisting the Lombardi, fans will complain. That is our right and I am upset also, but more upset about not able to capitalize on 7 recent opportunities and fear we may not even get back to playoffs.

I seriously doubt the monkey gets moved immediately. Maybe after a couple more years or so, but not immediately. I think the Bengals would temporarily be the toast of the town after finally winning one.

(04-25-2017, 09:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But 73% of the teams have been to the Super Bowl. 2 expansion teams haven't and they count in that 27% that haven't.

26 teams have 5+ playoff wins since we last have. We've won exactly 5 playoff games in our 50 years as a franchise.

You know...the thing I've never understood is that some people on here talk like playoff wins don't matter unless you win it all. If that's the case, why do these same people care about regular season wins? After all, it's all meaningless unless you win it all...right? I guess this franchise has 50 years of worthless seasons, including that 5 year run of playoff appearances.

You can't have it both ways, people. Either playoff wins matter or none of it matters unless you win a chip.

(04-26-2017, 01:31 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You know...the thing I've never understood is that some people on here talk like playoff wins don't matter unless you win it all. If that's the case, why do these same people care about regular season wins? After all, it's all meaningless unless you win it all...right? I guess this franchise has 50 years of worthless seasons, including that 5 year run of playoff appearances.

You can't have it both ways, people. Either playoff wins matter or none of it matters unless you win a chip.

Ego-investment - They shift the target as they know it missed the original target. Nobody wants to admit that the football team they spend hours and hours following is irrelevant.

Some people talk about how our Super Bowl appearance in 1988 validates having a small scouting staff works too.

Some people have countered my arguments by saying that just because we haven't won a playoff game...doesn't mean that we couldn't have beat other playoff teams some years. (Like a team lead by Connor Cook...when in reality we lost to a team QB's by TJ Yates who had like 4 starts under his belt.) Yes...they delve deep into the hypothetical fantasy matchups.

(04-26-2017, 01:31 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You know...the thing I've never understood is that some people on here talk like playoff wins don't matter unless you win it all. If that's the case, why do these same people care about regular season wins? After all, it's all meaningless unless you win it all...right? I guess this franchise has 50 years of worthless seasons, including that 5 year run of playoff appearances.

You can't have it both ways, people. Either playoff wins matter or none of it matters unless you win a chip.

Yup

Name me a team that starts off the season saying "we just wanna have a good regular season and go one n done in the playoffs". It's just spin to keep an argument going.

Making the playoffs at 10-6 or whatever and going 1 and done is obviously better than going 3-13. But there's a small window typically to go from that good team that just makes the playoffs to a great team with a few deep playoff runs and a Super Bowl title or two.

I'm very afraid our window is on the down swing and in typical Mike Brown fashion he's going to stick with what hasn't worked for 26 years, keep rolling with Marvin and soon it will be gone again.

Mike has never learned the NFL stands for Now, Forget Later. This fascination with 4th round comp picks is a pipe dream. At some point you have to stop "building for the future" and just do it.

(04-25-2017, 09:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But 73% of the teams have been to the Super Bowl. 2 expansion teams haven't and they count in that 27% that haven't.

26 teams have 5+ playoff wins since we last have. We've won exactly 5 playoff games in our 50 years as a franchise.

I agree it is bad, but Paul Brown by your numbers only had 5 playoff wins in over 20 years also. My point is the great Paul Brown was not great here either. As far as franchise teams, the new rules of drafting and FA made it very easy for them to be successful quickly. Panthers have been to the Super Bowl. Jags have not I believe so only 1 not to a Super Bowl

(04-26-2017, 01:23 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I see are excuses in that post. Maybe you could actually address some of my points in post #66?


I seriously doubt the monkey gets moved immediately. Maybe after a couple more years or so, but not immediately. I think the Bengals would temporarily be the toast of the town after finally winning one.

I hope you are correct, but in my opinion 1 playoff win will not be enough to get fans giddy about this team.

(04-26-2017, 11:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I hope you are correct, but in my opinion 1 playoff win will not be enough to get fans giddy about this team.

Because it has been so long, I think the idea of "a" playoff win has been elevated to almost mythical status by a number of fans.  While I think the goal post would get moved into overall playoff success, I tend to think one win would placate the masses for a couple of years.

I've always said it is almost unfathomable that neither Marvin, nor Mike, has lucked into a playoff win.  You say "26 years" and know it is a long time, but when you really think about it... George H.W. Bush was still president, most people that had a home computer were on AOL, no one had ever heard of a "smart phone".  There are fans of this organization who were born, grew up, went to college, and now have children of their own since the last playoff victory.  26 years in an insane amount of time...

(04-26-2017, 10:46 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup

Name me a team that starts off the season saying "we just wanna have a good regular season and go one n done in the playoffs". It's just spin to keep an argument going.

Making the playoffs at 10-6 or whatever and going 1 and done is obviously better than going 3-13. But there's a small window typically to go from that good team that just makes the playoffs to a great team with a few deep playoff runs and a Super Bowl title or two.

I'm very afraid our window is on the down swing and in typical Mike Brown fashion he's going to stick with what hasn't worked for 26 years, keep rolling with Marvin and soon it will be gone again.

Mike has never learned the NFL stands for Now, Forget Later. This fascination with 4th round comp picks is a pipe dream. At some point you have to stop "building for the future" and just do it.

And that's the mentality of a lot of fans...atleast we're not 3-13 or 4-12 like we were through the entire 90's.

The expectations are extremely low amount the fanbase. In towns like Pittsburgh and New England...they talk Super Bowls EVERY year.

In Cincy...we talk about winning 1 playoff game and come up with excuses why we haven't for 26 years. (Injuries, bad matchups, bad luck, slick footballs, etc.)

(04-26-2017, 11:33 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Because it has been so long, I think the idea of "a" playoff win has been elevated to almost mythical status by a number of fans.  While I think the goal post would get moved into overall playoff success, I tend to think one win would placate the masses for a couple of years.

I've always said it is almost unfathomable that neither Marvin, nor Mike, has lucked into a playoff win.  You say "26 years" and know it is a long time, but when you really think about it... George H.W. Bush was still president, most people that had a home computer were on AOL, no one had ever heard of a "smart phone".  There are fans of this organization who were born, grew up, went to college, and now have children of their own since the last playoff victory.  26 years in an insane amount of time...

A lot of it is that, and admittedly I'm guilty. I've never seen the Bengals win a playoff game. So it's like a lesser version of the Cubs not winning a world series. It's just a dubious streak I'd like to be rid of. But it's more than just a fan thing. I think psychologically, this team needs it. If you think 0-5 has never crossed AJ Green's mind (just for example), you're crazy. It's like saying Lebron never thinks about wanting more championships. 

Btw, AOL wasn't even around in 1990 lol. Nobody I knew back then could afford a computer or one of those brick cell phones. It was just stuff you saw in movies. Occasionally I got to play Oregon Trail on a Macintosh at school.

(04-26-2017, 11:37 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And that's the mentality of a lot of fans...atleast we're not 3-13 or 4-12 like we were through the entire 90's.

The expectations are extremely low amount the fanbase. In towns like Pittsburgh and New England...they talk Super Bowls EVERY year.

In Cincy...we talk about winning 1 playoff game and come up with excuses why we haven't for 26 years. (Injuries, bad matchups, bad luck, slick footballs, etc.)

Oh I get so sick of hearing the "we could go back to the 90's" excuse. 

Or, maybe, we could get over the hump and give this core of solid players a real shot at a title.

The time is now, or it never will be for them - most likely.

(04-26-2017, 11:03 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree it is bad, but Paul Brown by your numbers only had 5 playoff wins in over 20 years also. My point is the great Paul Brown was not great here either. As far as franchise teams, the new rules of drafting and FA made it very easy for them to be successful quickly. Panthers have been to the Super Bowl. Jags have not I believe so only 1 not to a Super Bowl

The Texans haven't either.

No doubt modern free agency changed the game. The Bengals haven't won a single playoff game since modern free agency in 1992.

As has been brought up...they have changed how they operate recently some...but they still don't sign Tier 1 and 2 free agents and they rely heavily on the draft yet have an extremely small scouting department compared to their peers.

(04-26-2017, 12:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Texans haven't either.

No doubt modern free agency changed the game. The Bengals haven't won a single playoff game since modern free agency in 1992.

As has been brought up...they have changed how they operate recently some...but they still don't sign Tier 1 and 2 free agents and they rely heavily on the draft yet have an extremely small scouting department compared to their peers.

I agree and we have discussed this in other posts about FA. I agree build through the draft, but to close our door to signing a top tier FA every 3 or 4 years is a mistake in my opinion. An example is why not go after Mack (center from the browns) in 2016 like the Falcons did. They Falcons signed Mack and Sanu and almost won a Super Bowl.

I think that is the one area the FO needs to add to their off season to get us over the hump. Rookies normally just can't be saviours, they are a long shot to go from a good team to a Super Bowl team as they likely don't start day 1.

(04-26-2017, 11:49 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: A lot of it is that, and admittedly I'm guilty. I've never seen the Bengals win a playoff game. So it's like a lesser version of the Cubs not winning a world series. It's just a dubious streak I'd like to be rid of. But it's more than just a fan thing. I think psychologically, this team needs it. If you think 0-5 has never crossed AJ Green's mind (just for example), you're crazy. It's like saying Lebron never thinks about wanting more championships. 

Btw, AOL wasn't even around in 1990 lol. Nobody I knew back then could afford a computer or one of those brick cell phones. It was just stuff you saw in movies. Occasionally I got to play Oregon Trail on a Macintosh at school.

Wow, you are right about the AOL.  It has been so long ago that I forgot people didn't have internet then... I was in junior high when they went to the Super Bowl in Miami and had started high school when they won the last playoff game.  I was really lucky in that my mom was dating a guy who was a big Bengals fan and did well financially.  He took me to that Super Bowl (first live football game I ever saw) and we were at Riverfront for the playoff win.

There is no doubt a guy like A.J. Green thinks about the playoff futility.  He is a premiere wide receiver, is financially set for the rest of his life, what's left to think about?  His legacy.  He has to know that he needs playoff wins, and/or Super Bowls, to have any real chance at Canton.  They all think about winning, it is wired into their DNA.

(04-26-2017, 12:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree and we have discussed this in other posts about FA. I agree build through the draft, but to close our door to signing a top tier FA every 3 or 4 years is a mistake in my opinion. An example is why not go after Mack (center from the browns) in 2016 like the Falcons did. They Falcons signed Mack and Sanu and almost won a Super Bowl.

I think that is the one area the FO needs to add to their off season to get us over the hump. Rookies normally just can't be saviours, they are a long shot to go from a good team to a Super Bowl team as they likely don't start day 1.

Yes...while people tout going to the playoffs 5 times in 6 years as success. I view it as lost opportunity. Each one of those rosters had 'fatal flaws'. Some couldn't cover the TE. Some had a really weak center preventing us from running the ball.

Had we signed Dansby 3-4 years ago instead of Harrison...how much better would we have been? Harrison was a 3-4 OLB that didn't fit here. Dansby did. Harrison wanted less money.

Had we signed Mack as you alluded to and had a really awesome offensive line...maybe Andy doesn't get injured and maybe we run the ball better?

The window to compete in the NFL is small and when you're there...you have to invest all your resources to win.

Instead...the Bengals keep a clean cap which has enabled them to maintain an average roster to a good roster some years...but never that really GREAT roster that is complete in all areas.

(04-26-2017, 12:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree and we have discussed this in other posts about FA. I agree build through the draft, but to close our door to signing a top tier FA every 3 or 4 years is a mistake in my opinion. An example is why not go after Mack (center from the browns) in 2016 like the Falcons did. They Falcons signed Mack and Sanu and almost won a Super Bowl.

I think that is the one area the FO needs to add to their off season to get us over the hump. Rookies normally just can't be saviours, they are a long shot to go from a good team to a Super Bowl team as they likely don't start day 1.

I agree.  I don't think the team needs to go all in every year, but I really wish they would at least be open to doing so.  To going after that one or two pieces that is going to put them over the top.

A big complaint I have is that it always seems to be about the future.  The "now" in the NFL is so short that you must do everything you can to maximize it.  You look at a lot of the recent Super Bowl teams, and they all have key pieces that have been added in free agency.

(04-26-2017, 11:33 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Because it has been so long, I think the idea of "a" playoff win has been elevated to almost mythical status by a number of fans.  While I think the goal post would get moved into overall playoff success, I tend to think one win would placate the masses for a couple of years.

I've always said it is almost unfathomable that neither Marvin, nor Mike, has lucked into a playoff win.  You say "26 years" and know it is a long time, but when you really think about it... George H.W. Bush was still president, most people that had a home computer were on AOL, no one had ever heard of a "smart phone".  There are fans of this organization who were born, grew up, went to college, and now have children of their own since the last playoff victory.  26 years in an insane amount of time...

Perfect post.

I remember when we made the playoffs 2 or 3 years in a row...that Model Model article popped up on Bengals.com talking about how the Bengals were the model franchise in the NFL that other teams were emulating.

There were threads started about it.

My thing is that even if we win a Super Bowl...it doesn't show the model worked. The NFL is a league built on parity where 73% of the teams have been to the SB since we last won a playoff game. That's the system.

It's geared for us to become really good and go to a Super Bowl. We've just missed our chances.

(04-26-2017, 01:23 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I see are excuses in that post. Maybe you could actually address some of my points in post #66?


I seriously doubt the monkey gets moved immediately. Maybe after a couple more years or so, but not immediately. I think the Bengals would temporarily be the toast of the town after finally winning one.

Here is where I am coming from with limited time to research every last injury for each game cause I work.

2010 team goes 4 and 12.

2011 enter Dalton & Green - 9 and 7 and a Playoff - lose to the Texans 31 to 10 - nice improvement - Texans are better
 
2012 - 10 and 6 - Green ellis, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Dre, Iloka added to team - roster better - lose to Texans 19 to 13

2013 - 11 and 5 - Eifert, Bernard, Shawn Williams added - roster better - lose 27 to 10 to Chargers who we had just beat earlier in the season - Gio fumble and Zimmer's defense ran all over by Chargers

2014 - 10-5-1 - add Dennard, Jeremy Hill - roster pretty strong & experienced playing together - lose 26 to 10 to Colts

2015  - 12 and 4 - BEST ROSTER so far in Dalton era - Start 8 and 0 - lose Dalton - lose to Steelers 18 to 16 - Hill fumbles with game in hand (I don't blame on FO)   Pac Man & Burfict screw up (can blame on FO for having them especially having Pac Man.)

* Saw improvement year over year from 2010 through 2013.
* Roster was thin with little Depth to overcome injuries in 2011, better in 2012.
* Better showing in 2nd Texans loss which is improvement
*2013 we Had the better team than the Chargers and lost. Zimmer's defense ran all over and he is a Great coach
*2014 had Zero starting wide receivers and zero starting tight end available for Colts game as I remember. All normal receiver starters out with injury for Colts game including Gresham.
2015 - 8 and 0, no Dalton, fumble, melt down

** These are Observations and NOT excuses even though many will immediately Post that they are excuses. Go for it.
*** The Bengals FO is LESS COMPETENT than the Patriots FO and many others. I know that.
*** They have, however, finished in the Top 12,  5 of the last 6 years which does show some Competence
**    Out did 20 other teams to get into the Playoffs those 5 years - Top 12

**  They seem to be right on the Fence between becoming a better FO, doing more than just getting in the Playoffs only to lose and building up to Roster Peak seasons with teams that stay generally healthy & maybe make a run.
*   Would I rather have Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, OF COURSE, but we have what we have.
*** Many find HOPELESSNESS in the Playoff losses and assume the Bengals FO can NEVER EVER under any circumstances win a Playoff game and they may be right.
** I simply look at each year's team as a DIFFERENT group, with differing levels of Roster Depth and Health, playing different opponents at a different time and say MAYBE they can get over the Hump and win a Playoff game someday. Then maybe do more.
Consistent Top 12 five of last 6 seasons and other Good signs are there along with the Bad signs others point out like keeping Pac man
** Mike & Marvin are not going anywhere right now so we will see if they can IMPROVE themselves.
**  They have consistently been just a Top 12 team that can get into the Playoffs 5 of 6 years then lose.
** That is ON THEM to the Bad and ON THEM to the Good
** On one hand successful and on the other a Failure.
** I'm simply saying MAYBE they can break some Barriers and do more.
** People that say they can NEVER, EVER under any Circumstances win a Playoff game have ruled out the MAYBE
** I have not ruled out the MAYBE yet mainly due to the 2015 team's show of Promise

(04-26-2017, 12:33 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I agree.  I don't think the team needs to go all in every year, but I really wish they would at least be open to doing so.  To going after that one or two pieces that is going to put them over the top.

A big complaint I have is that it always seems to be about the future.  The "now" in the NFL is so short that you must do everything you can to maximize it.  You look at a lot of the recent Super Bowl teams, and they all have key pieces that have been added in free agency.

That's my big point too and I get labeled as someone who bashes management.

I look at it like this: Our management improved a lot for the 90's. We went from horrible to competitive when Marvin got here. We are now about the 12th to 14th best team in the NFL every year instead of one of the 5-6 worst as we were in the 90's.

That said...the jump from 12th to 14th best to best is just as steep as that jump we made from the 90's losing.

It takes signing that Tier 2 free agent to stabilize a unit. Pulling that extra special guy out of the draft that went to a small school that nobody knew. Having that coach who changed the culture to one of winning, etc.