(04-26-2017, 02:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yup....and Cage, he's just not very good.  He's rated among the league's worst.  As Pistons pointed out, Alex Mack was our answer to our woes a C, and the FO took a pass.  Pressure at the point of attack is quite detrimental to your offense.

Our rushing yards in the playoffs total...as a team: 91, 110, 113, 80, 76. You're not going to win a lot of games with those rushing numbers.

(04-26-2017, 02:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He's avoiding being critical of anything. No whining allowed. 

You could say that we are the best managed and that we draft better than any other organization in professional sports in the world that hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

(04-26-2017, 01:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In Marv's 7 playoff games...

- We've never seen our offense post more than 17 points 
- Our best passer rating by any of the 4 QBs was 68.3, which is awful
- We've allowed 375.4 yards per game, which would've been tied for 27th in total defense with the Saints last year
- Opposing passers have a 102.4 rating overall which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've allowed 162.6 yards rushing per game, which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've been outscored 96 to 29 in the 2nd half.
- We've allowed 25.1 points per game, which would've been tied for 26th in the league last year
- We've scored an average of 12.9 points per game, which would've been dead last in the league last year, more than a full point behind the Rams

You use injuries as excuses for the Steelers and Colts games, but ignore the fact that the Colts were down to Dan Herron and Zurlon Tipton at RB (those 2 burned us for 187 yards combined) and the Steelers were down also down to 3rd and 4th string RBs (Todman and Toussaint, who burned us for 183 yards) and were also without Ben for a stretch. 

We aren't the only team dealing with injuries come playoff time, and considering how horribly the team has performed, I doubt having more players healthy would've made much difference. 

The first factoid is an eye opener - 17 points? That's all?

Now it's touched a nerve - I guess the thing that bums me out the most is the teams that have won superbowls since the Bengals last playoff win.  Teams that were perennial cellar dwellers - seahacks, aints, lambs and succs  Teams that weren't even around - raisins (x2).

This team was the brainchild of the godfather of modern football and the forward pass- Freakin' Paul Brown. And in one of the most prolific states in the country for football (before the rest of them started figuring it out).  When I was 8 and playing pee wee football in Mt. Washington it was the inaugural season for the Bengals - and by 81 when they went to the superbowl I certainly thought the team was on it's way to being every bit as good and winning championships like the damn squeelers.  So here we are 36 years later, nothing notta' one.  Damn - it feels like it would have felt if the Russians walked on the moon first and we never went.  Or if the Brits had won the American revolution and we were bitching about soccer and the world cup!  C'mon - whoever is holding and exercising the magic whammy stick please aim it over to PBS pronto so we can at least for once feel like the Natti' is every bit  as good as the rest of those scrubs!  Halleluiah, holy shit, where's the Tylenol? (Thank You Mr. Griswold)

Not that it's a problem...but one major hurdle that we face is that we are in a division with 2 well managed teams.

The Steelers generally own us. We generally play well against the Ravens...but with 3 good teams...and only 6 making the playoffs in the AFC...somethings gotta give.

(04-26-2017, 11:49 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: A lot of it is that, and admittedly I'm guilty. I've never seen the Bengals win a playoff game. So it's like a lesser version of the Cubs not winning a world series. It's just a dubious streak I'd like to be rid of. 

Yep.  As long as we recognize the fact that the Cubs completely gutted their team, fired their GM and ho-hum manager and made a point to get THE top GM and THE top manager in the league in order to break the streak.  As long as Marvin and Mikey are doing the same ol' same ol' in Cincy we aren't the 2016 Cubs.

(04-26-2017, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why is it splitting hairs? The contention is that signing Alex Mack would have helped the Bengals who everyone agrees had a loaded roster in 2015 minus the Center position win a playoff game.

Then people point to Dalton being injured as why we didn't win.

Then it gets pointed out that he got injured on a play in which the Center let direct pressure get to him on.

Seems like logical cause and effect.

(04-26-2017, 02:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yup....and Cage, he's just not very good.  He's rated among the league's worst.  As Pistons pointed out, Alex Mack was our answer to our woes a C, and the FO took a pass.  Pressure at the point of attack is quite detrimental to your offense.

First of all not denying Bodine is bad at all but to blame him for the 2015 turning sour is ludicrous and is an obvious bias against him. Dalton caused the turnover and Dalton decided to take his rage out on the d-linemen nowhere near scoring territory causing his injury. I can't blame Dalton either he's human and he was emotional in the moment and made a poor decision. Hindsight is always 20-20 though and the coaches have taught him differently.

So because Bodine is the weak link in the chain the majority of blame goes to him regardless? That's also ludicrous. When did Center become the new QB around here? Who knew it all hinged on Bodine's shoulders.

Feh, we're a 6-win team now so we can't even be as frustrated about being a 10+ win team that came up short in the post-season for the first time in a long while. This is some depressing stuff.

(04-26-2017, 03:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Not that it's a problem...but one major hurdle that we face is that we are in a division with 2 well managed teams.

The Steelers generally own us. We generally play well against the Ravens...but with 3 good teams...and only 6 making the playoffs in the AFC...somethings gotta give.

They cleared that hurdle regularly from 2011-2015...when I'd argue we were the most successful team in the division...in regular season. The playoffs were the only problem really. We should've won several playoff games during that span. It just seems like that's where the Steelers and Ravens shine, while the Bengals morph into a a 3-13 team. It's hard to understand how such a great team can be so incredibly bad when the stakes change.

(04-26-2017, 07:54 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: First of all not denying Bodine is bad at all but to blame him for the 2015 turning sour is ludicrous and is an obvious bias against him. Dalton caused the turnover and Dalton decided to take his rage out on the d-linemen nowhere near scoring territory causing his injury. I can't blame Dalton either he's human and he was emotional in the moment and made a poor decision. Hindsight is always 20-20 though and the coaches have taught him differently.

So because Bodine is the weak link in the chain the majority of blame goes to him regardless? That's also ludicrous. When did Center become the new QB around here? Who knew it all hinged on Bodine's shoulders.

We weren't really blaming the season on Bodine....but saying Alex Mack was there for the taking.....again.....and we passed....again.....in favor of a turd.  Now.....it's certainly not out of the realm of possiblity that Alex Mack never lets a NT blow right through a gap like Sherman burning the South and thus.....no play ever happens that causes Dalton to do that.  He's at least somewhat culpable....and he did AJM no favors in Denver either.....who knows....a good FA here or there...and we had home field advantage wrapped up BEFORE Dalton goes down....or at least a bye.  Maybe the run game is able to step up behind NFL caliber play at the C position and win at least another game to get a bye AFTER Dalton goes down.  Bodine kills us with intense pressure up the gut. There is ZERO excuse for him to still be starting at C and then letting good players walk. That's ludicrous.....

The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.The Bengals have won 5 playoff games in 50 years.

The Steelers have more Super Bowl trophy's than we have franchise playoff wins.

That says A LOT. Yet some fans feel that the way we are doing things is working great.

(04-27-2017, 12:46 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They cleared that hurdle regularly from 2011-2015...when I'd argue we were the most successful team in the division...in regular season. The playoffs were the only problem really. We should've won several playoff games during that span. It just seems like that's where the Steelers and Ravens shine, while the Bengals morph into a a 3-13 team. It's hard to understand how such a great team can be so incredibly bad when the stakes change.

To me...our lack of playoff success is just a continuation of our primetime and big regular season woes.

(04-27-2017, 01:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: We weren't really blaming the season on Bodine....but saying Alex Mack was there for the taking.....again.....and we passed....again.....in favor of a turd.  Now.....it's certainly not out of the realm of possiblity that Alex Mack never lets a NT blow right through a gap like Sherman burning the South and thus.....no play ever happens that causes Dalton to do that.  He's at least somewhat culpable....and he did AJM no favors in Denver either.....who knows....a good FA here or there...and we had home field advantage wrapped up BEFORE Dalton goes down....or at least a bye.  Maybe the run game is able to step up behind NFL caliber play at the C position and win at least another game to get a bye AFTER Dalton goes down.  Bodine kills us with intense pressure up the gut. There is ZERO excuse for him to still be starting at C and then letting good players walk. That's ludicrous.....

Yep. That's the bottom line. The Bengals have cap space and go into a season KNOWING that they have a weak position that they could turn into a strength in free agency...yet they don't.

We had arguably a Top 3 roster that year.

Instead of doing that, they tout that the cap will remain clean for upcoming seasons. That's great! Now our 6 win team won't have to shed players in a salary cap purge.

The other side of the not spending is the fallacy that other teams go through 'cap hell'. I just don't see it. Maybe occasionally a team has to waive a few underperforming guys...but teams like the Steelers and Patriots did a lot of signing this offseason.

(04-27-2017, 09:29 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. That's the bottom line. The Bengals have cap space and go into a season KNOWING that they have a weak position that they could turn into a strength in free agency...yet they don't.

We had arguably a Top 3 roster that year.

Instead of doing that, they tout that the cap will remain clean for upcoming seasons. That's great! Now our 6 win team won't have to shed players in a salary cap purge.

The other side of the not spending is the fallacy that other teams go through 'cap hell'. I just don't see it. Maybe occasionally a team has to waive a few underperforming guys...but teams like the Steelers and Patriots did a lot of signing this offseason.

To extend players that we wind up letting walk anyway.  It's maddening.

To the last sentence....isn't it amazing?  Wonder how they do that?   Frugality, and "loyalty" is what kills this franchise in the end.  

(04-27-2017, 09:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: To me...our lack of playoff success is just a continuation of our primetime and big regular season woes.

Yes...while the team had the best record in the division from '11-15, we still struggled in prime-time...a problem I can remember being discussed while Dalton and AJ Green were in high school. I have no idea why we struggle in prime-time/playoff games. Could be level of competition, change in approach by Marv, not being able to handle the pressure, or all of the above. Maybe none of the above, but the record proves it's a real problem. 

(04-27-2017, 01:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: We weren't really blaming the season on Bodine....but saying Alex Mack was there for the taking.....again.....and we passed....again.....in favor of a turd.  Now.....it's certainly not out of the realm of possiblity that Alex Mack never lets a NT blow right through a gap like Sherman burning the South and thus.....no play ever happens that causes Dalton to do that.  He's at least somewhat culpable....and he did AJM no favors in Denver either.....who knows....a good FA here or there...and we had home field advantage wrapped up BEFORE Dalton goes down....or at least a bye.  Maybe the run game is able to step up behind NFL caliber play at the C position and win at least another game to get a bye AFTER Dalton goes down.  Bodine kills us with intense pressure up the gut. There is ZERO excuse for him to still be starting at C and then letting good players walk. That's ludicrous.....

Not what your buddy was saying.

So we just say "Hey Alex Mack wanna play for the Bengals? Here's a big pile of cash!" and then poof like magic it happens. You are assuming a lot just to bash Bodine. Signing free agents is a 2 way street and Alex Mack would also be coveted by other teams and has the right to pick the Bengals out of all the other teams. We could have been in contention for signing Mack but acting like it was a sure thing as long as we handed him money is naive. Also Bodine is one man on an o-line and even smaller fish among the pool of starters. Nevermind the fact that we were in the post-season and had the game within our grasp until players not named Bodine blew it to pieces. Nevermind that McCarron fumbled the snap against Denver tossing away our bye. I don't even have to look it up to know that Dalton has very rarely bobbled a snap with the same Center.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to justify your bias against Bodine. He's not a great player at all but we do have great players on the team who have the ability to change a game at the drop of a hat but keep blaming the average Center. The bias has obviously doubled down since Tate is gone there are less people to blindly hate regardless of the reality.

Center has all of a sudden become the most important position in football. We lose because of Bodine, If we win it's in spite of Bodine and I highly doubt most of you are even qualified to know what it takes to be a good Center in the NFL. Just pick a player and he's the new punching bag until he's gone while other players are untouchable. Heaven forbid some of our pro bowlers step up and lead our team.

Here's the lifetime playoff standings for all 32 teams. 

 http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/standings/postseason

What's interesting to note is that before Marvin, we were a somewhat respectable 5-6.  We have since moved into last by a very large margin.  It really is embarrassing and I think the fans have every right to complain about the complete lack of success in the past 49 years.

Heck, even the Jags have as many wins as we do and we had almost a 30 year head start on them!

Marvin and Mike Brown, please just retire and set the rest of us free, will ya?

(04-27-2017, 12:26 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Not what your buddy was saying.

So we just say "Hey Alex Mack wanna play for the Bengals? Here's a big pile of cash!" and then poof like magic it happens. You are assuming a lot just to bash Bodine. Signing free agents is a 2 way street and Alex Mack would also be coveted by other teams and has the right to pick the Bengals out of all the other teams. We could have been in contention for signing Mack but acting like it was a sure thing as long as we handed him money is naive. Also Bodine is one man on an o-line and even smaller fish among the pool of starters. Nevermind the fact that we were in the post-season and had the game within our grasp until players not named Bodine blew it to pieces. Nevermind that McCarron fumbled the snap against Denver tossing away our bye. I don't even have to look it up to know that Dalton has very rarely bobbled a snap with the same Center.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to justify your bias against Bodine. He's not a great player at all but we do have great players on the team who have the ability to change a game at the drop of a hat but keep blaming the average Center. The bias has obviously doubled down since Tate is gone there are less people to blindly hate regardless of the reality.

Center has all of a sudden become the most important position in football. We lose because of Bodine, If we win it's in spite of Bodine and I highly doubt most of you are even qualified to know what it takes to be a good Center in the NFL. Just pick a player and he's the new punching bag until he's gone while other players are untouchable. Heaven forbid some of our pro bowlers step up and lead our team.

You ain't my buddy?

Dude, he can't even snap the ball consistently....he's not just bad, or mediocre, he's terrible. I've seen Andy rip his ass several times for bad snaps, are we watching the same games?  Where do you see NTs in Dalton's face coming from?  Where do you see those same guys coming from that smash Bernard and 2 yard Jeremy coming from? It's not like he's a rookie, and there have been chances to upgrade him (with guys like Alex Mack....whom we NEVER EVEN TRIED TO GET), but we sat on our hands like usual. I don't know what it takes to make a C at the NFL level, but I played next to one for 10 years of my life, and even stepped in and played the position a couple of times in a pinch when I was needed.  I can tell you this, the position is a lot more important than you Madden boys will ever admit.  He is the anchor for the interior line, he is responsible for identifying defensive alignments and calling out the proper schemes, and he is responsible for getting the ball to the QB consistently.  Snapping in the shotgun, or longsnapping is no easy chore (thumbs out!), but with the reps I'm sure Blodine has had in lifetime, he should have it licked by now.  Hell, my sorry ass got it right in the 3 games I played the position as a teen, with minimal reps. Sorry your love for Bodine clouds the reality.

(see what I did there?)

PS....I blame his position coach far more than I do him.  I'm just pointing out ONE example of a position that needs upgrading in FA to help get this inept bunch over the hump.....but we just keep twiddling our thumbs.  I must admit.....he is just the easiest target.  I's like shooting fish in a 5 gallon bucket.

(04-27-2017, 01:15 PM)Wyche Wrote: You ain't my buddy?

Dude, he can't even snap the ball consistently....he's not just bad, or mediocre, he's terrible. I've seen Andy rip his ass several times for bad snaps, are we watching the same games?  Where do you see NTs in Dalton's face coming from?  Where do you see those same guys coming from that smash Bernard and 2 yard Jeremy coming from? It's not like he's a rookie, and there have been chances to upgrade him (with guys like Alex Mack....whom we NEVER EVEN TRIED TO GET), but we sat on our hands like usual. I don't know what it takes to make a C at the NFL level, but I played next to one for 10 years of my life, and even stepped in and played the position a couple of times in a pinch when I was needed.  I can tell you this, the position is a lot more important than you Madden boys will ever admit.  He is the anchor for the interior line, he is responsible for identifying defensive alignments and calling out the proper schemes, and he is responsible for getting the ball to the QB consistently.  Snapping in the shotgun, or longsnapping is no easy chore (thumbs out!), but with the reps I'm sure Blodine has had in lifetime, he should have it licked by now.  Hell, my sorry ass got it right in the 3 games I played the position as a teen, with minimal reps. Sorry your love for Bodine clouds the reality.

(see what I did there?)

PS....I blame his position coach far more than I do him.  I'm just pointing out ONE example of a position that needs upgrading in FA to help get this inept bunch over the hump.....but we just keep twiddling our thumbs.  I must admit.....he is just the easiest target.  I's like shooting fish in a 5 gallon bucket.

 I was talking about PISTONS.


Once again if you want to blame the average Center for all the teams problems go ahead and humor yourself but there are a hell of a lot better football players on this team that haven't stepped up when it matters the most. Do you have proof he's bad at identifying defensive alignment or just more bias dribble?  Of course it's an important position but so are the other guys on the team who turn invisible or make key mistakes in crunch time. If we ever win the Superbowl it's not going to be because we finally upgraded the Center it's going to be because the coaches stepped up, the leaders stepped up and the elite players on our team play to that level. The fact is this board is biased against Bodine and overvalue the Center position because of it. The cycle repeats itself over and over again with whatever player they decide to make the forum punching bag.

Right my love for Bodine even though I blatantly said he wasn't a good player. Who's the one trying to pin him for the Andy's injury and the 2015 turning sour? If you can compare playing football as a teenager to playing at the highest level in the world then go for it although it doesn't help your case.  You're the one not living in reality.

Obviously I struck a nerve or someone took too many meds.

(04-27-2017, 02:22 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  I was talking about PISTONS.


Once again if you want to blame the average Center for all the teams problems go ahead and humor yourself but there are a hell of a lot better football players on this team that haven't stepped up when it matters the most. Do you have proof he's bad at identifying defensive alignment or just more bias dribble?  Of course it's an important position but so are the other guys on the team who turn invisible or make key mistakes in crunch time. If we ever win the Superbowl it's not going to be because we finally upgraded the Center it's going to be because the coaches stepped up, the leaders stepped up and the elite players on our team play to that level. The fact is this board is biased against Bodine and overvalue the Center position because of it. The cycle repeats itself over and over again with whatever player they decide to make the forum punching bag.

Right my love for Bodine even though I blatantly said he wasn't a good player. Who's the one trying to pin him for the Andy's injury and the 2015 turning sour? If you can compare playing football as a teenager to playing at the highest level in the world then go for it although it doesn't help your case.  You're the one not living in reality.

Obviously I struck a nerve or someone took too many meds.

LOL....this aggression will not stand.....man!  I knew you were referring to Pistons, I was insinuating, tongue in cheek, that you were acting like we aren't buddies....or something like that.

I'm not blaming the center, per se, as you should have gathered from the end of my post.....what I AM pointing out that is that Center, along with other holes, could have and should have been addressed in FA, and maybe we get over the hunt.  I sarcastically answered your sarcasm with your "love" for Bodine in response to my "bias" against him.  I ain't biased, he just isn't very good.....and grades show it.

I also noted that Center was just the easiest position to knock, because he's easily been one of the league's worst at his position.  We could have upgraded guys like him, Maulaluga (we finally did), Michael Johnson (solid, but not spectacular), Margus Hunt, etc, etc.....but we chose not too.  Center was just the most obvious choice.  In summation, it was more about FO failing to identify inadequacies, and failing to act upon them.

Shew....I feel better, want some of my meds?

PS....I never said he wasn't properly id'ing alignments....that was in response to you acting like center isn't a vital cog in the offense. I DID say he gets his ass beat a lot.