(05-16-2015, 10:27 PM)OSUfan Wrote: It is only a fumble for a QB and not for any other player because the QB has the option to slide and give himself up. Since he did not and went head first the ground is then allowed to cause a fumble. Ignorant rule.

Actually, the way the rule is written, any player can give themselves up. But if you ever see a RB do it, expect them to be cut the next day. They get paid to take hits.

(05-16-2015, 11:22 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The other QBs didn't put up better #s every time, and if they do put up better #s it's not even that much better (most of the time)... It's more of the running game that killed us the past 4 play off games. We can't rush for over 100 yards in a playoff game, but other teams on average rush for 150+ yards on us. That's my whole point, other teams QBs don't normally beat us. It's their whole team beating our whole team in every aspect of the game.

2011 - 76 yards vs 190 yards rushing
2012 - 80 yards vs 158 yards rushing
2013 - 87 yards vs 196 yards rushing
2014 - 110 yards vs 114 yards rushing (the defense allowed almost 400 yards passing this game too)

How many TDs to TOs did those 4 QBs have? Andy's ratio is 1:8 and you can't tell me the guys on the other team put numbers close to that up.

Imagine if, for a moment that your options are some really crappy QB who wins MAYBE 5 games a season and a HC who is the revolving door of 2-14.. I hate to say it, but this sounds like dejevu..
On the other hand a QB who wins 10 games a season and a HC who turned it around from 2-14 seasons..
Now imagine that we still win 10+ games every year for the next 10 seasons and still go 0-14.. Can anyone realistically think that this team could do that with the current people in charge?
Look, I'm not an Andy fan and Marvin surely pisses everyone off on a regular basis, but it could be a hell of a lot worse..
Imagine if we're celebrating the first ever super bowl win ever come January.. Andy leaves and Marvin fired...
I love playing devils advocate..

(05-17-2015, 12:40 AM)Nately120 Wrote: How many TDs to TOs did those 4 QBs have?  Andy's ratio is 1:8 and you can't tell me the guys on the other team put numbers close to that up.

3 TD's and 1 TO. Our defense was getting it ran down their throat, so they never had to pass the ball that much. The other teams QB just sat back and handed the ball off most of the time, and when they did throw it our defense was so off balanced because of the run game we never could get ANY pressure on the QBs. The Bengals defense only had 4 sacks the last 4 playoff games! 2 of which came in one game. The other teams defenses got 12 sacks on us.

(05-17-2015, 12:56 AM)grampahol Wrote: Imagine if, for a moment that your options are some really crappy QB who wins MAYBE 5 games a season and a HC who is the revolving door of 2-14.. I hate to say it, but this sounds like dejevu..
On the other hand a QB who wins 10 games a season and a HC who turned it around from 2-14 seasons..
Now imagine that we still win 10+ games every year for the next 10 seasons and still go 0-14.. Can anyone realistically think that this team could do that with the current people in charge?
Look, I'm not an Andy fan and Marvin surely pisses everyone off on a regular basis, but it could be a hell of a lot worse..
Imagine if we're celebrating the first ever super bowl win ever come January.. Andy leaves and Marvin fired...
I love playing devils advocate..

Thanks for bringing up this totally new and unique argument. We all have amnesia and forgot what the 90s were like, and it never occurred to us that things might get worse before they get better. The real question is, do you stay home with your laptop and body pillow on Friday nights for fear of striking out in the big scary world, or do you take the chance, get out there, and realize that's what it takes to score?

Weigh the pros and cons, man. If we keep Marvin, we never win a playoff game. If we fire Marvin, maybe we miss the playoffs completely! Or maybe we finally win one. Either way, playoff appearances don't count if you don't do anything with them.

(05-14-2015, 05:56 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: OK then.  I wonder if we can just have one giant Dalton thread on here, instead of the numerous brand new Dalton posts a day that we had on Bengals.com

Amen to that...and then it would be easy to enable a mass "ignore" list

(05-17-2015, 01:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Amen to that...and then it would be easy to enable a mass "ignore" list

And when it hits a certain number of posts, archive it and start a new one.

maybe this is the year he leads us to a playoff victory....the 3rd, 4th, 5th times a charm.

Andy Dalton is by far, the Worst QB out of all of the QB's that have gone to the Playoffs for the last few years. (Minus Romo) Having said that, I would rather have the worst QB in the Playoffs....than have the Best QB among the teams that didn't make it.

He has improved every year except 2014....and I will give him the benefit of the doubt there, because we were pretty decimated by injuries last year. I believe he will have a strong showing this year, and he will have to with the strength of schedule, to even make the playoffs in 2015. This is a make or break year for Andy in my eyes. (which doesn't count for a damn thing I know.....lol) He's gotta step it up.....or be pushed aside.

(05-18-2015, 02:07 PM)JungleGal50 Wrote: Andy Dalton is by far, the Worst QB out of all of the QB's that have gone to the Playoffs for the last few years.  (Minus Romo)  Having said that, I would rather have the worst QB in the Playoffs....than have the Best QB among the teams that didn't make it.  

A lot of ignorance in this.

Andy hasn't been "by far" the worst QB going into the playoffs. There have been backups starting for some of the other teams that are clearly worse, and there have been a couple of starters that haven't been obviously better.

The fact that you use one of the better QBs in the league (Tony Romo) as the only guy that has been worse than Andy makes it clear that you have no idea how to evaluate the QB position. Romo's career low passer rating is higher than Andy's best. There isn't really a way to make sense of a Dalton > Romo argument.

(05-17-2015, 01:16 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 3 TD's and 1 TO. Our defense was getting it ran down their throat, so they never had to pass the ball that much. The other teams QB just sat back and handed the ball off most of the time, and when they did throw it our defense was so off balanced because of the run game we never could get ANY pressure on the QBs. The Bengals defense only had 4 sacks the last 4 playoff games! 2 of which came in one game. The other teams defenses got 12 sacks on us.

So when the defense stinks Dalton turns into Blaine Gabbert? Jeepers, if only the NFL didn't have more than zero QBs who are able to still throw more than 1 touchdown for every 8 turnovers when they helm a team that can't cut it on D. We'd better hope Pauly Geuntherururr can turn it around this year if "bad defense means sub 70 QB ratings" is really this acceptable.

Couldn't we also argue that the defense is apt to give up more yards and/or the opposing QB is more able to play a conservative game when our QB is a liability, though? Meh, who knows. It's all bad in the playoffs, so what's the point?

(05-18-2015, 02:07 PM)JungleGal50 Wrote: Andy Dalton is by far, the Worst QB out of all of the QB's that have gone to the Playoffs for the last few years.  (Minus Romo)  Having said that, I would rather have the worst QB in the Playoffs....than have the Best QB among the teams that didn't make it.  

He has improved every year except 2014....and I will give him the benefit of the doubt there, because we were pretty decimated by injuries last year.  I believe he will have a strong showing this year, and he will have to with the strength of schedule, to even make the playoffs in 2015.  This is a make or break year for Andy in my eyes.  (which doesn't count for a damn thing I know.....lol)  He's gotta step it up.....or be pushed aside.

I might be crazy, but I think Ryan Lindley was worse.

(05-16-2015, 10:27 PM)OSUfan Wrote: It is only a fumble for a QB and not for any other player because the QB has the option to slide and give himself up. Since he did not and went head first the ground is then allowed to cause a fumble. Ignorant rule.

That's a fumble for any player. Touching the ground means zero if you were never contacted by the defense.

The ground can't cause a fumble in college, and can't in the NFL if a player is touched on the way down. Unfortunately, Andy wasn't touched and made one of the worse looking plays since the butt fumble.

(05-18-2015, 02:35 PM)djs7685 Wrote: A lot of ignorance in this.

Andy hasn't been "by far" the worst QB going into the playoffs. There have been backups starting for some of the other teams that are clearly worse, and there have been a couple of starters that haven't been obviously better.

The fact that you use one of the better QBs in the league (Tony Romo) as the only guy that has been worse than Andy makes it clear that you have no idea how to evaluate the QB position. Romo's career low passer rating is higher than Andy's best. There isn't really a way to make sense of a Dalton > Romo argument.

I was referring more to the "inconsistency" of the QB's in the PLAYOFFS and not so much by QBR in the regular season. Romo has had his Stuggles in the BIG games same as Andy.....and has even had difficulty reaching the playoffs.......Whereas Andy has managed to get there every year of his Career. I will concede that he has atleast snagged a few "W's" in the playoffs.....when he gets there. But overall, he is pretty damn inconsistent in the Big Games too.

Andy has zero excuse if everyone is healthy. If and only IF his all star cast of 1-2-3 rounders remain healthy and he still does his 'Bad Andy' performances, the guy is undefended and should get every slam and bad comment coming his way.

(05-18-2015, 03:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So when the defense stinks Dalton turns into Blaine Gabbert?  Jeepers, if only the NFL didn't have more than zero QBs who are able to still throw more than 1 touchdown for every 8 turnovers when they helm a team that can't cut it on D.  We'd better hope Pauly Geuntherururr can turn it around this year if "bad defense means sub 70 QB ratings" is really this acceptable.

Couldn't we also argue that the defense is apt to give up more  yards and/or the opposing QB is more able to play a conservative game when our QB is a liability, though?  Meh, who knows.  It's all bad in the playoffs, so what's the point?

The point is Dalton isn't the only one to blame. He hasn't had any help what so ever in any playoff game, and it wouldn't have mattered who we had out there at QB. If the OL gives up 12 sacks, and we have no talent to throw the ball to how is he going to win games? Then on top of that the defense plays like a bottom ranked defense during the playoffs only getting 4 sacks and 2 TO and letting other teams run the ball for 150+ yards a game.

I know its a joke, but it's nice to see only one Andy thread on the front page. Would it be possible that Andy could get his own Forum here? All Andy threads could get moved there, and maybe if you intentionally try to turn a defensive line thread into an Andy thread you have to have a pic of Andy with a heart behind it for your avatar for a week. I'd make a horrible mod, but I'm really happy this site has diverse topics............so far.

(05-19-2015, 02:50 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: The point is Dalton isn't the only one to blame. He hasn't had any help what so ever in any playoff game, and it wouldn't have mattered who we had out there at QB. If the OL gives up 12 sacks, and we have no talent to throw the ball to how is he going to win games? Then on top of that the defense plays like a bottom ranked defense during the playoffs only getting 4 sacks and 2 TO and letting other teams run the ball for 150+ yards a game.

I understand that Andy isn't the only one to blame.

Remember how everyone used to get mad when all of the threads about the defense, WRs, RBs, etc. would get turned into blaming Andy? Do you realize that the exact opposite is just as obnoxious?

If I say "Andy played poorly in all 4 playoff games, we really need him to play better" in an Andy thread, I don't need some jagoff running in to tell me how bad the run defense was too. I get it, the defense wasn't great either, but that's not what the thread is about so go make a thread about the playoff defense if you want to talk about it. I'll gladly come in and ***** about the defense as well. I'm not excusing their performances, I'm just talking about Andy in an Andy thread, and I think it's dumb to start playing the blame game instead of giving him his share of it as well.

I understand that we have guys biased against Andy here, but if that annoys you so much maybe you shouldn't act exactly like them except with an opinion on the other side of the extremist fence.

I brought it up in the other thread, but you really need to lay off the whole part of excusing Andy for the 4 playoff losses if you're going to keep giving him credit for the 40 wins. You can't say "ANDY won 40 games" and "the TEAM lost the 4 playoff games". Wouldn't you get pissed if somebody said "the TEAM won 40 games, but ANDY lost the 4 playoff games!"? Exactly, so cut it out.

(05-19-2015, 08:36 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I understand that Andy isn't the only one to blame.

Remember how everyone used to get mad when all of the threads about the defense, WRs, RBs, etc. would get turned into blaming Andy? Do you realize that the exact opposite is just as obnoxious?

If I say "Andy played poorly in all 4 playoff games, we really need him to play better" in an Andy thread, I don't need some jagoff running in to tell me how bad the run defense was too. I get it, the defense wasn't great either, but that's not what the thread is about so go make a thread about the playoff defense if you want to talk about it. I'll gladly come in and ***** about the defense as well. I'm not excusing their performances, I'm just talking about Andy in an Andy thread, and I think it's dumb to start playing the blame game instead of giving him his share of it as well.

I understand that we have guys biased against Andy here, but if that annoys you so much maybe you shouldn't act exactly like them except with an opinion on the other side of the extremist fence.

I brought it up in the other thread, but you really need to lay off the whole part of excusing Andy for the 4 playoff losses if you're going to keep giving him credit for the 40 wins. You can't say "ANDY won 40 games" and "the TEAM lost the 4 playoff games". Wouldn't you get pissed if somebody said "the TEAM won 40 games, but ANDY lost the 4 playoff games!"? Exactly, so cut it out.

Excellent points all the way around.

The only point I'd disagree with is the emphasis should be put on the QB much more so than lets say an OLB who had a bad game. The QB is the most important position on the field by far....if he isn't getting it done more than likely the whole offense won't get it done; case in point the offense hasn't scored more than 10 points in any of the 4 playoff games. That is a direct reflection on the QB. Now you can argue that AJ Green didn't play great or dropped a few passes but the majority of the responsibility should be put on the QB. He's the one that touches the ball on every offensive possession and his stats and performance have been completely unacceptable in the playoffs. That is a fact whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

(05-19-2015, 08:36 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I understand that Andy isn't the only one to blame.

Remember how everyone used to get mad when all of the threads about the defense, WRs, RBs, etc. would get turned into blaming Andy? Do you realize that the exact opposite is just as obnoxious?

If I say "Andy played poorly in all 4 playoff games, we really need him to play better" in an Andy thread, I don't need some jagoff running in to tell me how bad the run defense was too. I get it, the defense wasn't great either, but that's not what the thread is about so go make a thread about the playoff defense if you want to talk about it. I'll gladly come in and ***** about the defense as well. I'm not excusing their performances, I'm just talking about Andy in an Andy thread, and I think it's dumb to start playing the blame game instead of giving him his share of it as well.

I understand that we have guys biased against Andy here, but if that annoys you so much maybe you shouldn't act exactly like them except with an opinion on the other side of the extremist fence.

I brought it up in the other thread, but you really need to lay off the whole part of excusing Andy for the 4 playoff losses if you're going to keep giving him credit for the 40 wins. You can't say "ANDY won 40 games" and "the TEAM lost the 4 playoff games". Wouldn't you get pissed if somebody said "the TEAM won 40 games, but ANDY lost the 4 playoff games!"? Exactly, so cut it out.

First of all the thread started to talk about the playoffs, and they were trying to put all the blame on Dalton. When someone brings up a point to tear down your argument you have to show them the flaws in the point that they are bringing up. Second I didn't even bring up that Dalton won 40 games in this thread, so what's your point? Most of the time I do bring that up is when someone talks about the playoff losses. You can go on believing that Dalton was the biggest reason why we lost in the playoffs, and I will go on believing that it was a total team meltdown, and it didn't matter who was at the QB position.