(05-31-2017, 12:48 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Simple, Malone was drafted in the fourth round and considered somewhat of a steal.  Putting him on the PS, means some other team will pick him up for sure.  He was drafted as a long term prospect who won't play much this year, but the coaches seem to think that he's already ahead of where Marvin Jones was in his first rookie camp according to a Hobson article.  Since they will not put him on the PS or cut him, Malone will be one of the top 6.  That means, the cuts come down to whether they value Erickson's return ability (not sure where he will rank in this aspect once Wilson, Mixon and maybe Ross have shown their skills), over Core's potential as a receiving threat (right now it's nothing more than potential).  Based on what he has shown so far in a real game, he looks like number 7 to me.  Maybe the Bengals keep 7 and no one gets cut.  I don't think Core will be developing into a consistent player this year, but I hope to be wrong.  I do however think that Core should be kept as I believe he will become a solid player next year as they phase LaFell out of the offense.   

Considering that this team took many years to find a replacement for Brandon Tate, and kept keeping him over and over, surprising some of us after like the fourth year of keeping him in a row, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they decide to keep Erickson simply out of a reluctance to mess with special teams and Erickson has proven to be solid (a quality that they value in their return guys).

I don't understand your line about Core being nothing more than potential.  He played three games, started two, and had a very nice outing in his last game with AJ Green and Tyler Eifert on the sideline.  Malone is the one who is purely potential at this point.  Extremely raw coming out of Tennessee.  If he doesn't show the ability to pick up the offense and improve his route running, he will not make the starting roster.  I honestly think that he will, but remember, he wasn't even taken with their first pick in the 4th round.  Core was a 6th rounder.  Not a huge difference.

In the end, I think there will either be an injury that allows them all to stay, or the Bengals go light in another position group and keep 7 WRs.  If they were to release Core, he would be a Raven overnight.  Or a Brown.  

(06-01-2017, 06:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't see where he can fit in?

Why does a rotation of fresh, strong, fast guys only work for the defensive end position?  Lafell and Boyd come to the bench, and Ross moves to slot while Core goes in at X.  DB instantly poops their pants.  Having a rotation of burners is not going to be fun for opposing DBs.  

At 6'3", and 215 lbs, Core is also likely the most physical receiver we have from a run-blocking standpoint.  He also contributed well in special teams, beyond just the return game.  Erickson certainly does not have an edge on him in coverage unit.  Where are you getting that?

Core only played 49 (11%) of the ST snaps in 2016. There were 30 players who had more. He really hasn't been a strong contributor on ST yet.

(06-01-2017, 08:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Core only played 49 (11%) of the ST snaps in 2016. There were 30 players who had more. He really hasn't been a strong contributor on ST yet.

That was somewhat based on his being active or not, and once given a shot to start he looked pretty damn good in special teams.  Good stat, though.

Oh yes. The time of year where back up is having an amazing off season only to be cut on the final day.

(05-29-2017, 08:00 PM)eoxyod Wrote: A guy whose weakness is route running is not a 5th round pick. Because that's every college receiver's 'weakness'. Also Lafell and Boyd are good blockers. If Core does make the team, he's going to be inactive. There's just too much ahead of him

Great players fall every year Eox and we see them ending up having great careers.

Sure, Lafell and Boyd are also good blockers but they don't have the deep ball speed that Core has that we needed terribly
last season. When he got time it opened up the Offense. Lafell or Boyd don't scare the Safeties, Green, Ross, Malone and
Core do though.

Honestly i think we keep 7 receivers and if we don't there is a Lafell trade somewhere.

(05-30-2017, 03:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: That's just it though, the article from Hobs is just saying you can tell the guy is/has been working his tail off to improve this offseason. Not saying he is the second coming of AJ or anything like that. Time will only tell, when they put the pads on, if his offseason was good enough to make the squad. 
 If last year was any kind of indication, 7 receivers are needed, especially needing some speed at the lower end of your line-up.

Spot on Sandwedge.

Speed and physicality is what Core brings, only AJ Green brings both in our WR corps.

(05-31-2017, 01:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fwiw, I think it's funny that Core is getting more hype than Ross, Boyd, Malone or even players at other positions. It's Binns or Briscoe all over again. Or Dan LeFevour. People always pick out some late round pick that's going to be the next Brady or Jerry Rice. It happens literally every year. I guess it gets some through the offseason. I get that, but I think we have players that are more worthy of hype. 

He got one article talking about his dedication and his top end speed.  I would hardly call that hype.  Boyd flashed last year, but seemed to disappear at times.  Binns and Briscoe were hopefuls because the Bengals NEEDED another WR to step up.  Right now, there is a pretty fierce battle being waged at the WR position to even get on the field.  

This could spawn a new thread:  Your "HYPE" guy in 2017.  Who you think deserves some offseason kudos and is going to make a major leap, surprise some folks, blah, blah, blah...

I can't do Sexy since he is in New England.

Hmmm.  I will have to give that some thought.  

(06-01-2017, 06:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't understand your line about Core being nothing more than potential.  He played three games, started two, and had a very nice outing in his last game with AJ Green and Tyler Eifert on the sideline.  Malone is the one who is purely potential at this point.  Extremely raw coming out of Tennessee.  If he doesn't show the ability to pick up the offense and improve his route running, he will not make the starting roster.  I honestly think that he will, but remember, he wasn't even taken with their first pick in the 4th round.  Core was a 6th rounder.  Not a huge difference.

In the end, I think there will either be an injury that allows them all to stay, or the Bengals go light in another position group and keep 7 WRs.  If they were to release Core, he would be a Raven overnight.  Or a Brown.  

IIRC, Core got playing time as a receiver in the final couple games of the season after the bengals were eliminated from the playoffs.  He did ok, but I still stand by the statement he's nothing more than potential at the moment.  I've not watched a single minute of tape on Malone, and don't claim to know his game, so I'm not disputing whether he's raw or if he's a better player than Core.  However, I'm going by the grape vine according to Hobson (which of course does come with a lot of fluff) where people within the team believe he's ahead of Marvin Jones at the same time of their respective careers, and the fact that the Bengals claim they had Malone rated higher than the fourth round (again, draft day exaggeration could always be in play).  I've also been saying all along that Malone isn't expected to play much if at all this season, but he's a longer term prospect that they believe can become as good or better than Marvin Jones.  That remains to be seen, but the point is Malone is not getting cut this year barring unforeseen circumstances.  As far as differences between what rounds they were selected, I guess this is not really a major point of contention, so I'd rather not focus on that.

As for your point about Core getting picked up if he's getting cut, well I've said so much in other posts on this thread.  Considering that Cobi Hamilton was picked up by the Steelers to play ST last year, I would be completely not surprised to see something similar within the AFC North with Cody Core.  I've also argued within this thread that we should keep 7,  as I would hate to lose Core after we've developed him from a 6th rounder (I am not sure if the dude would be in the NFL at all if the Bengals didn't draft him in the 6th, but this is my own opinion without any mention of it in any articles, and I leave open the possibility that I am wrong if an article mentions that some other team was planning to take him or inviting him as an undrafted free agent.  I don't say this to diminish Core, but to make the point that we should make sure to keep and benefit from a player that the rest of the NFL may never have paid any attention to and whom we developed into a good player.)   The point is not that I don't think Core is a good player, in fact, I believe he will become a 3rd or 4th receiver for the Bengals with a lot of playing time by next year, but at least based on the roster right now and the WR chart in particular, it's going to come down to whether the team views Erickson or Core as the more valuable player (and also whether the team keeps 6 or 7 WR).  If Erickson were cut, he too would find a team overnight in the AFC North or elsewhere.  The same holds for Malone if he were put on the practice squad.  Having said all that, I hope to be wrong, and Core actually elevates his game to such a level that he takes over as the 2nd WR and pushes LaFell out of the starting lineup.

(06-01-2017, 06:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't see where he can fit in?

Why does a rotation of fresh, strong, fast guys only work for the defensive end position?  Lafell and Boyd come to the bench, and Ross moves to slot while Core goes in at X.  DB instantly poops their pants.  Having a rotation of burners is not going to be fun for opposing DBs.  

At 6'3", and 215 lbs, Core is also likely the most physical receiver we have from a run-blocking standpoint.  He also contributed well in special teams, beyond just the return game.  Erickson certainly does not have an edge on him in coverage unit.  Where are you getting that?

Come on man. Even as hyperbole, that doesn't and won't happen. 

As far as Core goes; i hope he continues to develop. His biggest weakness is he's bad at tracking and adjusting to balls that don't come to him. They used him on a lot of really short stuff last year and i think he did well with YAC, but he had a real problem going and getting balls that he needed to go and get. 

(06-01-2017, 06:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't understand your line about Core being nothing more than potential.  He played three games, started two, and had a very nice outing in his last game with AJ Green and Tyler Eifert on the sideline.  Malone is the one who is purely potential at this point.  Extremely raw coming out of Tennessee.  If he doesn't show the ability to pick up the offense and improve his route running, he will not make the starting roster.  I honestly think that he will, but remember, he wasn't even taken with their first pick in the 4th round.  Core was a 6th rounder.  Not a huge difference.

In the end, I think there will either be an injury that allows them all to stay, or the Bengals go light in another position group and keep 7 WRs.  If they were to release Core, he would be a Raven overnight.  Or a Brown.  

(06-01-2017, 09:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That was somewhat based on his being active or not, and once given a shot to start he looked pretty damn good in special teams.  Good stat, though.

Not sure where you're where you're getting this from, but Core dressed in 8 games, and made 4 starts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/codycore/2555331/gamelogs

He averaged 2.13 catches for 25 yards in the games he dressed for.  He averaged 3.75 catches for 37 yards in the 4 games he started.  Those are not good #'s at all.  He had a good game against Baltimore, but he was held to under 40 yards in his other three starts and under 15 yards in two of those.  

I'm also not sure how a guy who was credited with only one assisted tackle while playing 49% of the team's ST snaps "looked pretty damned good."

And this is my issue with the bubble WR debate.  People are vastly overratting Core's contributions and keying on the isolated instances where he was effective and overlooking the fact that there were numerous times he was totally ineffective.

(06-01-2017, 03:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not sure where you're where you're getting this from, but Core dressed in 8 games, and made 4 starts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/codycore/2555331/gamelogs

He averaged 2.13 catches for 25 yards in the games he dressed for.  He averaged 3.75 catches for 37 yards in the 4 games he started.  Those are not good #'s at all.  He had a good game against Baltimore, but he was held to under 40 yards in his other three starts and under 15 yards in two of those.  

I'm also not sure how a guy who was credited with only one assisted tackle while playing 49% of the team's ST snaps "looked pretty damned good."

And this is my issue with the bubble WR debate.  People are vastly overratting Core's contributions and keying on the isolated instances where he was effective and overlooking the fact that there were numerous times he was totally ineffective.

***** incredible the lengths guys are going to to write this guy off.   All anybody ever said was he's working his tail off to get better.  Nobody ever hyped him.  Just wonder if he does make it and plays well how many of the Core is nothing crowd will admit they were wrong.  My guess?  Not a ***** one.  You guys just make me shake my damn head.

Anybody says anything good about anybody, all of a sudden it's Armon Binns all over again. You guys seriously need some ***** perspective.

(06-01-2017, 06:12 PM)McC Wrote: ***** incredible the lengths guys are going to to write this guy off.   All anybody ever said was he's working his tail off to get better.  Nobody ever hyped him.  Just wonder if he does make it and plays well how many of the Core is nothing crowd will admit they were wrong.  My guess?  Not a ***** one.  You guys just make me shake my damn head.

Anybody says anything good about anybody, all of a sudden it's Armon Binns all over again.  You guys seriously need some ***** perspective.

I agree McC.

The ones writing this guy off i truly believe will be big time surprised on down the road.

Of course the guy has a lot of work to do, newsflash he is putting in the work and ran 22.8 MPH at 6'3" 215.

This is nothing to snicker at and say yeah, well he did nothing as a rookie...

Did more than his 1st round teammate Laquan Treadwell and has waaayyyy more speed.

Plus he is extremely physical. Like i said, only AJ Green has this combo of speed, size and physicality in our WR corps.

(06-01-2017, 06:12 PM)McC Wrote: ***** incredible the lengths guys are going to to write this guy off.   All anybody ever said was he's working his tail off to get better.  Nobody ever hyped him.  Just wonder if he does make it and plays well how many of the Core is nothing crowd will admit they were wrong.  My guess?  Not a ***** one.  You guys just make me shake my damn head.

Anybody says anything good about anybody, all of a sudden it's Armon Binns all over again.  You guys seriously need some ***** perspective.

I'm not really sure what you're ticked off about.  We're having a discussion.  

I especially don't get it that you're ticked because someone posted incorrect facts about Core, and I corrected them.  A person who is being fair would want both sides to have the actual facts so that they can have an informed opinion.  They would not want people posting false information just to sway them to their way of thinking.  

I have no issue admitting I'm wrong if I'm wrong about Core.  That is a complete straw man argument. 

(06-01-2017, 03:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not sure where you're where you're getting this from, but Core dressed in 8 games, and made 4 starts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/codycore/2555331/gamelogs

He averaged 2.13 catches for 25 yards in the games he dressed for.  He averaged 3.75 catches for 37 yards in the 4 games he started.  Those are not good #'s at all.  He had a good game against Baltimore, but he was held to under 40 yards in his other three starts and under 15 yards in two of those.  

I'm also not sure how a guy who was credited with only one assisted tackle while playing 49% of the team's ST snaps "looked pretty damned good."

And this is my issue with the bubble WR debate.  People are vastly overratting Core's contributions and keying on the isolated instances where he was effective and overlooking the fact that there were numerous times he was totally ineffective.

Averaging out his performances in games he "dressed" is incredibly misleading.  He lined up at WR and got some snaps in three games.  He didn't start at WR for 4 games, it was two:  Houston and Baltimore.  The Houston game, he was a late addition as Green was unable to go.  He was critiqued as not "coming back to the ball" a few times, but James Urban had a lot of positives to say about how he took to coaching and improved the following week when he got more snaps in practice, knowing he would be starting.  The games he dressed was predominately for special teams, not WR.  So, averaging out the total yards by the number of games he dressed isn't representative of his real impact at WR at all.  

He had 4 receptions for 82 yards against the Ravens in his second start and looked very good in doing it.  

82 yards in his second start, without AJ Green or Tyler Eifert drawing coverage away from him.

82 yards is something that Tyler Eifert, Marvin Jones, and Tyler Boyd never accomplished in their rookie season despite a significantly greater number of opportunities.

(06-01-2017, 02:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Come on man. Even as hyperbole, that doesn't and won't happen. 

As far as Core goes; i hope he continues to develop. His biggest weakness is he's bad at tracking and adjusting to balls that don't come to him. They used him on a lot of really short stuff last year and i think he did well with YAC, but he had a real problem going and getting balls that he needed to go and get. 

Ask Adoree Jackson if it happens after what Ross did to him last year...and he was drafted in the first round. Yes, I was trying to be funny, but I was at the Raven's game and you could see a difference in how they lined up against Core than they did earlier in the season against Lafell.

FWIW, I saw something that one of the Raven's starting CBs just tore his ACL and is out for the season.  

(06-01-2017, 10:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not really sure what you're ticked off about.  We're having a discussion.  

I especially don't get it that you're ticked because someone posted incorrect facts about Core, and I corrected them. 

Uh, in your "discussion", can you point out where I posted incorrect facts?  This should be good.

(06-01-2017, 07:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree McC.

The ones writing this guy off i truly believe will be big time surprised on down the road.

Of course the guy has a lot of work to do, newsflash he is putting in the work and ran 22.8 MPH at 6'3" 215.

This is nothing to snicker at and say yeah, well he did nothing as a rookie...

Did more than his 1st round teammate Laquan Treadwell and has waaayyyy more speed.

Plus he is extremely physical. Like i said, only AJ Green has this combo of speed, size and physicality in our WR corps.

Yeah, how much would it suck if the tall, fast guy developed his game?

(06-01-2017, 10:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not really sure what you're ticked off about.  We're having a discussion.  

I especially don't get it that you're ticked because someone posted incorrect facts about Core, and I corrected them.  A person who is being fair would want both sides to have the actual facts so that they can have an informed opinion.  They would not want people posting false information just to sway them to their way of thinking.  

I have no issue admitting I'm wrong if I'm wrong about Core.  That is a complete straw man argument. 

I guess we'll see how good your crystal ball really is.

(06-01-2017, 03:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not sure where you're where you're getting this from, but Core dressed in 8 games, and made 4 starts.

http://www.nfl.com/player/codycore/2555331/gamelogs

He averaged 2.13 catches for 25 yards in the games he dressed for.  He averaged 3.75 catches for 37 yards in the 4 games he started.  Those are not good #'s at all.  He had a good game against Baltimore, but he was held to under 40 yards in his other three starts and under 15 yards in two of those.  

I'm also not sure how a guy who was credited with only one assisted tackle while playing 49% of the team's ST snaps "looked pretty damned good."

And this is my issue with the bubble WR debate.  People are vastly overratting Core's contributions and keying on the isolated instances where he was effective and overlooking the fact that there were numerous times he was totally ineffective.

He played 49 snaps, not 49%.

(06-02-2017, 06:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Averaging out his performances in games he "dressed" is incredibly misleading.  He lined up at WR and got some snaps in three games.  He didn't start at WR for 4 games, it was two:  Houston and Baltimore.  The Houston game, he was a late addition as Green was unable to go.  He was critiqued as not "coming back to the ball" a few times, but James Urban had a lot of positives to say about how he took to coaching and improved the following week when he got more snaps in practice, knowing he would be starting.  The games he dressed was predominately for special teams, not WR.  So, averaging out the total yards by the number of games he dressed isn't representative of his real impact at WR at all.  

He had 4 receptions for 82 yards against the Ravens in his second start and looked very good in doing it.  

82 yards in his second start, without AJ Green or Tyler Eifert drawing coverage away from him.

82 yards is something that Tyler Eifert, Marvin Jones, and Tyler Boyd never accomplished in their rookie season despite a significantly greater number of opportunities.

I've already posted a link that proves Core got 4 starts.  Those are his official statistics, and are not debateble.

(06-02-2017, 09:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He played 49 snaps, not 49%.

My bad, mixed up the snaps and ℅.