(06-09-2017, 04:19 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Meh....Rex is a better back than Hill. It was more than obvious that this is truth down the stretch last year. He just isn't the right persuasion for a RB, or a second Rd pick. Some coaches aren't willing to admit that they make mistakes. Merv being one of those.

My feeling as well, despite the fact that Hill was apparently playing hurt almost the entire year.  But it underscores the rest of what you said.   As a team we have not favored playing later round skill players if we've seen good play from a higher round pick early on.

Not a totally invalid concept either.  But in this case the 2nd round pick was hurt most of the year and we really didn't give Rex significant snaps till the last 2-3 games of the year.   That does not seem smart to me.

(06-09-2017, 03:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, we wouldn't have drafted Mixon. So in turn we never have Mixon instead drafting a back next year as a depth guy after Hill leaves.

Why wouldn't we have drafted Mixion? We draft best player available not need he would have still been best player available? We drafted Ross after we signed Laffell I don't understand why signing Burkhead a third string player would prevent us from drafting Mixion.

Is this going to be a Joseph leaving redux? Burkhead signed somewhere, its over, let it go. Us fans have no idea what was being said behind closed doors. Did he even want to stay in Cincy? Free agency is a two way street in real life. It's not Madden where you can just keep upping the money.

(06-09-2017, 01:09 PM)3wt Wrote: A pretty condescending article whose author kept pushing Rex to share the differences in playing for the Bengals and the Patriots - which, being the class act he is he never did.   The author even said at one point that Rex - in response to the question of those differences - said something very telling.  And he said nothing that was telling about the differences.  It was only telling about his positive response to working in the rain.

That's awfully nice of Rex to keep it to himself.  I'd hate to see a billionaire get his feelings hurt over a mere 26 years of self-imposed incompetence!

(06-09-2017, 08:21 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Is this going to be a Joseph leaving redux? Burkhead signed somewhere, its over, let it go. Us fans have no idea what was being said behind closed doors. Did he even want to stay in Cincy? Free agency is a two way street in real life. It's not Madden where you can just keep upping the money.

 

Everyone keeps raving about him, but this is 100% correct. What makes anyone think Burkhead had any desire to come back here? When he gets an offer to go to a team that has been to the Super Bowl and wins playoff games and might (stress the word might) get more work in game situations, why would he sign back in Cincinnati. 

I think Burkhead was going to test FA unless the Bengals offered him starter money and starting reps...and neither was going to happen here.

As the question of this thread, based on talent alone I'd take Mixon over Burkhead any day. Just sucks Mixon comes with the off-field baggage, because on the field he has talent that is very rare.

And this should surprise... Nobody.

If this team had any balls they would have brought Burkhead back and let Hill go. For whatever reason, Hill is broken. Be it injuries, mental issues, bad eyesight or just plain fear, Hill is not the same back from his rookie year. He has regressed in the worst way. 

Rex plays with heart and intelligence. He hits the hole without hesitation and, more importantly, consistently picks the right hole (giggity). The exact opposite of what Hill has become

Re-sign Rex, cut or trade Hill, still draft Mixon. Obviously this is not what happened. Then you would have had a damn solid RB corps, regardless of how Gio recovers from his knee injury. Right now?? We're still in decent shape at RB... But we could have been better 

Oh boy... what if Hill comes back this season and plays on fire?

I'm not saying he will.

Yet if we decide Rex was such a great loss from such a small sample size and Mixon is going to be great from college play...

It's still feasible... no?

Gio was having a terrible time as well before the injury. Hope he recovers and then some.

I just hope that O-Line can magically block this season too. Now that it's missing perennially two of it's best players.

Mixon could be the next victim in our RB graveyard otherwise.

(06-10-2017, 08:20 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Oh boy...  what if Hill comes back this season and plays on fire?  

No offense but I hope he doesn't even see the field. He's such a candy ass. If he comes out blazing this year, it will mean he has been screwing the pooch for the last couple years and not giving it his all. Don't need puke like that on the field. Bad for the team. Feel this way about most players who explode in a contract year but mediocre at best before. No heart, just selfish individuals.

I'm hoping Burkhead has a fantastic career in NE. What a classy balls to the wall player. This dude always gives 110% and has my respect and admiration.

(06-09-2017, 01:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Burkhead and Andre Smith both have just above a $3 mill cap hit.
So would you rather...
1) Let Burkhead walk, sign Andre Smith, draft Joe Mixon
or
2) Re-sign Burkhead for same contract Pats did, draft Pat Elflein at 48 instead of Mixon?

(FWIW, I think Mixon will be a better RB than Burkhead)

Great analogy.  I am glad the Bengals took the side they did.  And, no one seems to point out that Sexy would have likely got more opportunities early, but was injured. 

I really, really liked him, but he is not a Joe Mixon.  Not even close.  

(06-09-2017, 09:55 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: And this should surprise... Nobody.

If this team had any balls they would have brought Burkhead back and let Hill go. For whatever reason, Hill is broken. Be it injuries, mental issues, bad eyesight or just plain fear, Hill is not the same back from his rookie year. He has regressed in the worst way. 

Rex plays with heart and intelligence. He hits the hole without hesitation and, more importantly, consistently picks the right hole (giggity). The exact opposite of what Hill has become

Re-sign Rex, cut or trade Hill, still draft Mixon. Obviously this is not what happened. Then you would have had a damn solid RB corps, regardless of how Gio recovers from his knee injury. Right now?? We're still in decent shape at RB... But we could have been better 

This is dead on, but to be fair, I believe this divorce was not as amicable as we believe.  Mo was talking one day on 1530ESPN about him leaving and he eluded to ignored texts and calls.  Apparently, Rex was pretty steamed at either his lack of opportunities or him offer.  

Wish I could find an article.  Maybe our own Jim O would know more?

Rex Burkhead contract: $3.15 million for 1 year
Joe Mixon contract: 5.45 million for 4 years ($1.36 million on average)

I'd take Mixon over Burkhead if the salaries were even. With that said, we're getting one heck of a bargain. I don't regret losing Rex one bit. It's certainly possible he has a good season in NE, but I'd say he has an uphill battle for touches with these guys also on their roster:


Mike Gillislee: Signed to a 2 year, $6.4 million contract to replace Blount. Gillislee has averaged 5.7 YPC in his career for the Bills, and ran for 577 yards and 8 TDs behind LeSean McCoy last year.

Dion Lewis: Can't stay healthy, but obviously has a role when he is. 1000 yards from scrimmage in 14 games over the last 2 years. He's been a more effective Gio Bernard for them.

James White: A receiving back that caught 60 passes for 551 yards and 5 scores last year. Great numbers. Plus chipped in 166 rushing yards.

(06-10-2017, 12:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Rex Burkhead contract: $3.15 million for 1 year
Joe Mixon contract: 5.45 million for 4 years ($1.36 million on average)

I'd take Mixon over Burkhead if the salaries were even. With that said, we're getting one heck of a bargain. I don't regret losing Rex one bit. It's certainly possible he has a good season in NE, but I'd say he has an uphill battle for touches with these guys also on their roster:


Mike Gillislee: Signed to a 2 year, $6.4 million contract to replace Blount. Gillislee has averaged 5.7 YPC in his career for the Bills, and ran for 577 yards and 8 TDs behind LeSean McCoy last year.

Dion Lewis: Can't stay healthy, but obviously has a role when he is. 1000 yards from scrimmage in 14 games over the last 2 years. He's been a more effective Gio Bernard for them.

James White: A receiving back that caught 60 passes for 551 yards and 5 scores last year. Great numbers. Plus chipped in 166 rushing yards.

This is where the Bengals get little to no credit, but they not only held down their cap number, but they got a compensatory pick out of it.  That cap space will be much appreciated when they try to extend the likes of Burfict (best player on defense) and Eifert (best red zone threat).

Great point.  

(06-10-2017, 12:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Rex Burkhead contract: $3.15 million for 1 year
Joe Mixon contract: 5.45 million for 4 years ($1.36 million on average)

I'd take Mixon over Burkhead if the salaries were even. With that said, we're getting one heck of a bargain. I don't regret losing Rex one bit. It's certainly possible he has a good season in NE, but I'd say he has an uphill battle for touches with these guys also on their roster:


Mike Gillislee: Signed to a 2 year, $6.4 million contract to replace Blount. Gillislee has averaged 5.7 YPC in his career for the Bills, and ran for 577 yards and 8 TDs behind LeSean McCoy last year.

Dion Lewis: Can't stay healthy, but obviously has a role when he is. 1000 yards from scrimmage in 14 games over the last 2 years. He's been a more effective Gio Bernard for them.

James White: A receiving back that caught 60 passes for 551 yards and 5 scores last year. Great numbers. Plus chipped in 166 rushing yards.

According to sporttrac, the total of those 4 in terms of cap hit is 10.45M for this year.  Haven't looked up the total for Bengal RBs expected to make the roster yet.  Looks like NE did a good job of shopping, to fit their RB needs.  They have a stable of versatile backs, each at a fair price.

(06-10-2017, 10:04 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: No offense but I hope he doesn't even see the field. He's such a candy ass. If he comes out blazing this year, it will mean he has been screwing the pooch for the last couple years and not giving it his all. Don't need puke like that on the field. Bad for the team. Feel this way about most players who explode in a contract year but mediocre at best before. No heart, just selfish individuals.

I'm hoping Burkhead has a fantastic career in NE. What a classy balls to the wall player. This dude always gives 110% and has my respect and admiration.

Pretty spot on.

That is why people don't bag on Gio as much as Hill.

Gio plays with heart and determination.

Hill probably just thinks he's a scapegoat and the fans won't give him a chance.

This season will be very telling of exactly what kind of player we have in Hill.

I hope to hell that the team doesn't have the same philosophy of "who ever they draft will probably be my backup".

Hill shouldn't be given the seniority card.  Since the more he's been here the less he's shown.

He just needs to shut his pie hole and produce.  Not just endzone TDs, but actual good YPC and conversion rates.

I'm probably one of the few that couldn't care less if they would've dumped Burkhead, Hill, Gio, and started fresh anyway.

If Mixon gets some real play time and produces I'd be happy to be done with both Hill & Gio.

That would mean the O-line is fine and it was a matter of talent at the RB position instead.

(06-10-2017, 01:47 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is where the Bengals get little to no credit, but they not only held down their cap number, but they got a compensatory pick out of it.  That cap space will be much appreciated when they try to extend the likes of Burfict (best player on defense) and Eifert (best red zone threat).

Great point.  

Agreed. I have no complaints with how the Bengals (usually) handle the draft or how they plug cheap draft picks into key positions, replacing more expensive players. It depends on the case, but I usually prefer it. My main complaint is what they do with the money saved.

(06-10-2017, 02:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to sporttrac, the total of those 4 in terms of cap hit is 10.45M for this year.  Haven't looked up the total for Bengal RBs expected to make the roster yet.  Looks like NE did a good job of shopping, to fit their RB needs.  They have a stable of versatile backs, each at a fair price.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Mixon has a cap hit of 991 K this season. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

Spotrac also shows that the total of Mixon's contract is 4 years/5.45 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

The biggest cap hit comes in year 4 at 1.7 million...which is still well under the 3.15 million paid for Burkhead this year.

(06-10-2017, 10:04 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: No offense but I hope he doesn't even see the field. He's such a candy ass. If he comes out blazing this year, it will mean he has been screwing the pooch for the last couple years and not giving it his all. Don't need puke like that on the field. Bad for the team. Feel this way about most players who explode in a contract year but mediocre at best before. No heart, just selfish individuals.

I'm hoping Burkhead has a fantastic career in NE. What a classy balls to the wall player. This dude always gives 110% and has my respect and admiration.

This is pretty much why I hope Hill gets cut or sees very few snaps. The drafting of Mixon means Hill is gone next year in almost any scenario. I'd be willing to bet money on that. If Hill is disappointing again, it makes sense to cut him next March. If he pulls a Doug Martin and balls out in a contract year, then he's definitely gone. The Bengals have already paid Gio and will not be giving another big contract to a RB.

Mixon was definitely drafted to be Hill's replacement. So why wait? RB's usually have no trouble as rookies as it's probably the position with the least to learn.

(06-09-2017, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I believe it was a projected 6-7 rounder.

EDIT: nfl.com came out with article 3 days ago saying 3rd for Zeitler, 5th for Whitworth (stupid 10+ years of service rule), and 7th for Dansby or Hunt. However, they didn't even mention Burkhead, who signed for a larger deal than Dansby and more money in a year than Hunt (2 year, $4 mill).
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000813295/article/projecting-compensatory-picks-for-2018-nfl-draft

OverTheCap also predicted the same as NFL.com, 3-5-7 for Zeitler-Whitworth-Hunt. No mention of Burkhead yet again for some reason?
https://overthecap.com/2018-compensatory-draft-picks-update-592017

EDIT 2: Actually, Burkhead may have been cancelled out by Andre Smith. I thought Smith was cut, but apparently wasn't?

Smith was on a 1 year deal from the Vikings, just like he is now on a 1 year deal with us.

(06-11-2017, 12:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is pretty much why I hope Hill gets cut or sees very few snaps. The drafting of Mixon means Hill is gone next year in almost any scenario. I'd be willing to bet money on that. If Hill is disappointing again, it makes sense to cut him next March. If he pulls a Doug Martin and balls out in a contract year, then he's definitely gone. The Bengals have already paid Gio and will not be giving another big contract to a RB.

Mixon was definitely drafted to be Hill's replacement. So why wait? RB's usually have no trouble as rookies as it's probably the position with the least to learn.

They will not ride Hill if he is ineffective, but the potential exists to get a great season out of him, have him leave in FA, and get a compensatory pick for him.  This is Hill's last chance.  He is basically on a one-year contract trying to prove it to teams out there that might be willing to sign him next year.  If he "balls out" as you say, we win!  If he stinks, they won't keep feeding him the ball.  

(06-11-2017, 01:37 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: They will not ride Hill if he is ineffective, but the potential exists to get a great season out of him, have him leave in FA, and get a compensatory pick for him.  This is Hill's last chance.  He is basically on a one-year contract trying to prove it to teams out there that might be willing to sign him next year.  If he "balls out" as you say, we win!  If he stinks, they won't keep feeding him the ball.  

True. I can't disagree much with anything you say. I just hate seeing us waste a year of a RB's career (RB's have short careers) sitting behind a guy who will inevitably be gone next year. I'd rather get the future started right now, and see what we have.

(06-09-2017, 01:09 PM)3wt Wrote: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2017/06/rex_burkhead_making_a_strong_impression_at_patriots_minicamp

Interesting article.  Easy to have a knee jerk reaction in a variety of perspectives.  Here's my perspective:

• A pretty condescending article whose author kept pushing Rex to share the differences in playing for the Bengals and the Patriots - which, being the class act he is he never did.   The author even said at one point that Rex - in response to the question of those differences - said something very telling.  And he said nothing that was telling about the differences.  It was only telling about his positive response to working in the rain.
  
  

• The author also underscored how many ways the Pats plan to utilize him, inferring that the Bengals did not use him in that variety of ways which I think is patronizingly inaccurate, creating the idea that we did not know all the ways to employ Rex.  
  
  

• I think the Bengals did use him in a variety of ways.   I just think we did not use him nearly enough.   I understand we had Jeremy and Gio - 2 pretty good backs.  But we did not pull the trigger nearly soon enough when Jeremy was injured and was not playing well.  And before Peerman was hurt we would use Ced way before we would resort to Rex - which I thought was just plain stupid.  Rex was clearly the better running back.
  
  

• It would have been good to keep Burkhead here.  I know, he would have been a high priced backup to Mixon and would be directly fighting Jeremy or Peerman (maybe both) for a roster spot.  But, even if he was not the STs stud that Peerman is, he was still a very good STs player, he was a stud Swiss army knife multi-tool, he was reliable, tough and he was a team player and very high character guy.  In my opinion he was the better keep than either Jeremy or Ced - and a better blocker than both.
  
  

Bottom line, the article is misleading and very patronizing.   But I still think we made a mistake letting a guy like that go.  You can never have enough players of his quality.

Thoughts??

I completely agree with your bottom line 3wt. We should of kept this guy, losing Whit was my biggest gripe at the time
but he is getting up there in age and for all we know could fall off, could of been the right decision.

This guy was in his prime and just shown his talents, he is very versatile and a great ST'er.

I don't like to cry over spilt milk but Mixon and Burkhead i truly believe would be a two headed monster.

Hill has an identity crisis and thinks he is a scat back, Gio is coming off of injury and hasn't been the same since the hit
from Shazier in the playoff game. I love the Mixon pick for these very reasons and honestly expect him to push for ROY.

Mixon had the best vision, stiff arm, hands and pass protection of any RB in the draft. Plus he is 228 pounds and can
take a hit. Dalton has also been talking this guy up and has a say now as the leader of this team.