We're all in the lull of the off-season, so here's an article talking about some behind the scenes stuff about the Bengals - some of it even goes back 30 years plus.   This should help you guys kill a few minutes as you keep searching for new threads on Jungle Noise, and talks very briefly at the end about the Bengals' playoff chances.  It may help you get excited about the Bengals' season if you weren't already.   Has some good historical notes, and gives info to people who may not know about Bengals' history on why they should root for them.

NFL Article - Why you should root for the Bengals this year.

It's kind of a long read, but I don't know if there are pieces that make sense to quote here, cause it's a lot of the author just throwing bits together, but here's a few:

Quote:Interested in rooting for one of the NFL's 32 teams -- but don't know where to start? Adam Rank has you covered with this series, which will present a handy guide to becoming an instantly rabid fan of each organization in the league. Below, find out why you should root for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Quote:And even though the Bengals have never won a title, they are hugely important to the NFL because one-time assistant Bill Walsh came up with the Ohio River offense, best known today as the West Coast offense.

Quote:And then there was Sam Wyche, who did this. (I don't know why he's haunted by this.)

Quote:This dude is fast


The Bengals selected John Ross with the ninth overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft. Questionable according to some, but the dude can fly. Just watch.

Like I said, the author kind of throws a bunch of stuff together, so you're going to have to read the article to get a good idea.  For most of us here, there's not a lot of new info, but it's an interesting read to understand how someone would describe rooting for the Bengals with their history thrown in , when explaining it to somebody who doesn't know much about the Bengals.

great article was about to post it here myself

One error stands out though.....Bruce Coslet is credited with coming up with the no huddle offense.  Wyche had been using at IU and brought it to Cincy with him.

(06-27-2017, 04:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: One error stands out though.....Bruce Coslet is credited with coming up with the no huddle offense.  Wyche had been using at IU and brought it to Cincy with him.

I didn't know Wyche coached IU.  Good catch.  I didn't think there was much new info in the article, but I learned something from you though. 

(06-27-2017, 04:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: One error stands out though.....Bruce Coslet is credited with coming up with the no huddle offense.  Wyche had been using at IU and brought it to Cincy with him.

I knew you would answer this one before I commented...

One of the items of the no-huddle I loved was the "sugar huddle"....No, the team didn't pass around skittles.  They would actually huddle on plays very close to the LOS.  No substitutions, and if the opponent would start to sub, they would sprint to position and snap the ball to catch them with too many men on the field and a free play. 

If Marv doesn't want to run the no-huddle because he fears wearing out his defense by being back on the field too quickly, then why not teach and execute the sugar?  Do you realize what an advantage the Bengals have with the flexibility of their offense that a defense would have to counter?

For example, The personnel is 2 wide, single TE, with Mixon and Hewitt.  The Bengals can start a drive with a couple pounding runs behind Hewitt and then, go to the sugar...if the team doesn't sub, split Hewitt out with Eifert, Ross, and AJ Green.  Mixon in the backfield alone.  You can pass all day against the base defense.  Don't allow them to sub in to nickel!  

Conversely, you could start with a package of 3 WR, single TE, and single back to force nickel on a team, then pull the TE (Hewitt again?) in to the backfield.  Bring a WR like Core along the LOS to block (perhaps from motion) and smash the opponent with the running game.  You would still have to keep safeties back with Ross and AJ on the field.  

Just a thought.  

(06-28-2017, 09:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I knew you would answer this one before I commented...

One of the items of the no-huddle I loved was the "sugar huddle"....No, the team didn't pass around skittles.  They would actually huddle on plays very close to the LOS.  No substitutions, and if the opponent would start to sub, they would sprint to position and snap the ball to catch them with too many men on the field and a free play. 

If Marv doesn't want to run the no-huddle because he fears wearing out his defense by being back on the field too quickly, then why not teach and execute the sugar?  Do you realize what an advantage the Bengals have with the flexibility of their offense that a defense would have to counter?

For example, The personnel is 2 wide, single TE, with Mixon and Hewitt.  The Bengals can start a drive with a couple pounding runs behind Hewitt and then, go to the sugar...if the team doesn't sub, split Hewitt out with Eifert, Ross, and AJ Green.  Mixon in the backfield alone.  You can pass all day against the base defense.  Don't allow them to sub in to nickel!  

Conversely, you could start with a package of 3 WR, single TE, and single back to force nickel on a team, then pull the TE (Hewitt again?) in to the backfield.  Bring a WR like Core along the LOS to block (perhaps from motion) and smash the opponent with the running game.  You would still have to keep safeties back with Ross and AJ on the field.  

Just a thought.  

....and it's a good thought, but the sugar huddle was outlawed by the NFL.

(06-28-2017, 09:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I knew you would answer this one before I commented...

One of the items of the no-huddle I loved was the "sugar huddle"....No, the team didn't pass around skittles.  They would actually huddle on plays very close to the LOS.  No substitutions, and if the opponent would start to sub, they would sprint to position and snap the ball to catch them with too many men on the field and a free play. 

If Marv doesn't want to run the no-huddle because he fears wearing out his defense by being back on the field too quickly, then why not teach and execute the sugar?  Do you realize what an advantage the Bengals have with the flexibility of their offense that a defense would have to counter?

For example, The personnel is 2 wide, single TE, with Mixon and Hewitt.  The Bengals can start a drive with a couple pounding runs behind Hewitt and then, go to the sugar...if the team doesn't sub, split Hewitt out with Eifert, Ross, and AJ Green.  Mixon in the backfield alone.  You can pass all day against the base defense.  Don't allow them to sub in to nickel!  

Conversely, you could start with a package of 3 WR, single TE, and single back to force nickel on a team, then pull the TE (Hewitt again?) in to the backfield.  Bring a WR like Core along the LOS to block (perhaps from motion) and smash the opponent with the running game.  You would still have to keep safeties back with Ross and AJ on the field.  

Just a thought.  

This is something that drives me nuts. Our offense seems to be more in sync and smoother when we go up tempo. I would think with all the speed we have, we could do this more this year. This could help our o-line too, throw some quick passes and you will get that defense to slow down and back off the LOS.....

It kills me how so many fans can come up with plays their teams OUGHT TO BE doing AS IF the rest of the league couldn't possibly have a counter to it.
The rest of the league also thinks about this stuff.
It's not exactly like we should win because the rest of the teams just sit around twiddling their thumbs all off season, but hey, it's fun to think that way even if it's just nonsense.. 
I can think of lots of reasons to not root for the Bengals and can't think of one to root for them and yet they're the only team I would even consider rooting for.  Nothing like good sound logic for finding a team to root for, eh? 

(06-28-2017, 11:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: ....and it's a good thought, but the sugar huddle was outlawed by the NFL.

It was?  I thought it was just a rule that if you substituted that you had to allow the opponent to substitute.  Surely, it can't be that you aren't allowed to try and quick-snap a team in substitutions.  I see the Pats do that all the time....or don't I?

(06-28-2017, 11:39 AM)sandwedge Wrote: This is something that drives me nuts. Our offense seems to be more in sync and smoother when we go up tempo. I would think with all the speed we have, we could do this more this year. This could help our o-line too, throw some quick passes and you will get that defense to slow down and back off the LOS.....

It sure could.  I remember Mark Brunell saying to Boomer after his second round with the Bengals something to the effect of "Why did you guys ever stop doing that?  You kept our defense so off balance?"

This was from 2014, but it sure sounds a lot like the concept...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377868/printable/uptempo-offense-catching-on-as-quick-path-to-nfl-success

(06-28-2017, 03:30 PM)grampahol Wrote: It kills me how so many fans can come up with plays their teams OUGHT TO BE doing AS IF the rest of the league couldn't possibly have a counter to it.
The rest of the league also thinks about this stuff.
It's not exactly like we should win because the rest of the teams just sit around twiddling their thumbs all off season, but hey, it's fun to think that way even if it's just nonsense.. 
I can think of lots of reasons to not root for the Bengals and can't think of one to root for them and yet they're the only team I would even consider rooting for.  Nothing like good sound logic for finding a team to root for, eh? 

I know why.  Its because you find their helmets and color scheme to be the best in the NFL.  Hey, I understand!  How else can a kid from Iowa grow up in the 80's love a team from Ohio so much?  and stick with them through the 90's and all the playoff debacles of the Marvin era. 

A lot of NFL innovations come from Cincinnati Bengals.
Paul Brown used his role as a teacher and players were students. Was first to have play books.

Like others stated, Bengals started no huddle, sugar huddle, quick huddle to control personnel changes from opposing side lines. Yet the Bengals were criticized as violating the"spirit of the rules" of game. The next season, Bills who criticized the Bengals the most publicly the ironically used the no huddle. Now those innovations are not connected to the Bengals.

Instead the Bengals carry the title of dirtiest team in NFL. They carry this mantle no matter if other players from other teams murder rape kidnap.

(06-29-2017, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This was from 2014, but it sure sounds a lot like the concept...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377868/printable/uptempo-offense-catching-on-as-quick-path-to-nfl-success

Everything is eventually gets evened out. After D coordinators saw it more they adjusted. Less sub packages, more versatile personnel, etc. You saw the rise of the Safety/LB hybrid a lot over the last couple years for this very reason. Pace is good, but the issue is pace that doesn't convert wears out your own defense instead of the opponent. I think almost every team in the league has an up tempo series they can run at anytime, but doing it too much isn't advisable....ask Chip Kelly.

(06-29-2017, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It was?  I thought it was just a rule that if you substituted that you had to allow the opponent to substitute.  Surely, it can't be that you aren't allowed to try and quick-snap a team in substitutions.  I see the Pats do that all the time....or don't I?

Maybe you and I have different definitions of the sugar huddle.  When I think of the sugar huddle....I'm thinking of how the Bengals used to run out like 13 players on the field, and then, when they saw the defensive alignment, they'd send either the WRs off the field, or the TEs....depending on what the defense shows.  What you are alluding to is legal.  Sorry for the confusion.

(06-29-2017, 10:14 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: A lot of NFL innovations come from Cincinnati Bengals.
Paul Brown used his role as a teacher and players were students.  Was first to have play books.  

Like others stated, Bengals started no huddle, sugar huddle, quick huddle to control personnel changes from opposing side lines.  Yet the Bengals were criticized as violating the"spirit of the rules" of game.  The next season, Bills who criticized the Bengals the most publicly the ironically used the no huddle.  Now those innovations are not connected to the Bengals.

 Instead the Bengals carry the title of dirtiest team in NFL.  They carry this mantle no matter if other players from other teams murder rape kidnap.

He was also first to put a radio in the QB's helmet...

We'll be hitting on the no-huddle in the next couple weeks in our 50 most influential series, but yes, Bruce Coslet had a hand in it in Cincinnati. The idea for Wyche came in San Francisco, but Joe Montana told me they never incorporated any of it because Sam was just a QB coach and well, you know, Bill Walsh. So Sam started to incorporate it, but he said he needed Boomer and it really took off in practices when they couldn't do anything against LeBeau's newly formed zone blitz. We'll have more on this, from the guys who ran this thing, in the next two weeks.

(06-29-2017, 02:18 PM)jowczarski Wrote: We'll be hitting on the no-huddle in the next couple weeks in our 50 most influential series, but yes, Bruce Coslet had a hand in it in Cincinnati. The idea for Wyche came in San Francisco, but Joe Montana told me they never incorporated any of it because Sam was just a QB coach and well, you know, Bill Walsh. So Sam started to incorporate it, but he said he needed Boomer and it really took off in practices when they couldn't do anything against LeBeau's newly formed zone blitz. We'll have more on this, from the guys who ran this thing, in the next two weeks.

From what I understand, the idea came to Sam after witnessing Renaldo Neamhia (SP?) come back from a post or go route gassed and saying he needed a second to catch his wind.  Wyche thought to himself that if a world class track athlete was gassed, imagine what the defenders would feel like if they couldn't substitute.  He then implemented his strategy at IU....and brought it to Cincy, where he and Coslet (another Walsh disciple) implemented it in their version of the Ohio River Offense.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/sam-wyche-remains-entertaining-and-opinionated-110413

Quote:“It makes me remember the old days when it wasn’t very popular. I really first tried it out at Indiana. We were not a real strong team and had to come up with some new ideas, and that was one of them. When we got to the NFL we ran into strong opposition from officials. Every week they had a different ruling and different interpretation. At the league meetings, I had a very good coach and a coach I admire very much say, ‘This is popcorn football and not in the spirit of the game. We should outlaw it.’”

(06-28-2017, 09:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I knew you would answer this one before I commented...

One of the items of the no-huddle I loved was the "sugar huddle"....No, the team didn't pass around skittles.  They would actually huddle on plays very close to the LOS.  No substitutions, and if the opponent would start to sub, they would sprint to position and snap the ball to catch them with too many men on the field and a free play. 

If Marv doesn't want to run the no-huddle because he fears wearing out his defense by being back on the field too quickly, then why not teach and execute the sugar?  Do you realize what an advantage the Bengals have with the flexibility of their offense that a defense would have to counter?

For example, The personnel is 2 wide, single TE, with Mixon and Hewitt.  The Bengals can start a drive with a couple pounding runs behind Hewitt and then, go to the sugar...if the team doesn't sub, split Hewitt out with Eifert, Ross, and AJ Green.  Mixon in the backfield alone.  You can pass all day against the base defense.  Don't allow them to sub in to nickel!  

Conversely, you could start with a package of 3 WR, single TE, and single back to force nickel on a team, then pull the TE (Hewitt again?) in to the backfield.  Bring a WR like Core along the LOS to block (perhaps from motion) and smash the opponent with the running game.  You would still have to keep safeties back with Ross and AJ on the field.  

Just a thought.  

PLEASE SEND THIS TO ZAMPESE ASAP.

(06-29-2017, 10:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Everything is eventually gets evened out. After D coordinators saw it more they adjusted. Less sub packages, more versatile personnel, etc. You saw the rise of the Safety/LB hybrid a lot over the last couple years for this very reason. Pace is good, but the issue is pace that doesn't convert wears out your own defense instead of the opponent. I think almost every team in the league has an up tempo series they can run at anytime, but doing it too much isn't advisable....ask Chip Kelly.

Chip tried to run a ridiculous number of plays per game and it had some success in college, but not really in the NFL.  I am speaking more about getting the opponent in a formation like Nickel and then pounding them with a TE, FB, and RB.  Sure, many nickel packages will be able to stop the run, but you get what I am saying.

I just like the creativity of the sugar and tryjng to bait the opponent in to switching personnel and catching them for an easy "too many men" penalty.  The best part of that is the free play, where you can take a deep shot with no fear of an INT.