(08-14-2017, 11:22 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Again, it's about the technique. 
His technique gets sloppy so eventually he loses the block. It works on a screen in this case but the technique is not transferable and it's a problem I highlight on NON-SCREEN plays. 

You aren't taking into consideration with each step the pocket Ced has to protect stretches backwards down field.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that play Zerk. I'll get back to you later when I get a chance to review.

(08-14-2017, 11:26 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Haha.  Comical comparison. And Els won 4 majors.

My bad on his wins, I did say (I believe so not definitive and was wrong). My point is there are guys with perfect technique and can't execute. There are guys with bad technique who do execute (get results).

(08-14-2017, 11:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My bad on his wins, I did say (I believe so not definitive and was wrong). My point is there are guys with perfect technique and can't execute. There are guys with bad technique who do execute (get results).

And those people are likely just more talented and naturally gifted. 

If Ced was one of those, he wouldn't have looked like he did last year. 

PAC man
Lafell
MJ

Collective 16 million/year that could have been saved if they cut them.

Imagine what the team would look like with that money invested in the oline.

(08-14-2017, 11:35 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And those people are likely just more talented and naturally gifted. 

If Ced was one of those, he wouldn't have looked like he did last year. 

I forgot giving up zero sacks and run blocking well in preseason game does not fit your narrative of basing everything on last year. TY for the reminder of your bias hating on Ced.....LOL

Get back to us when Ced actually has a bad preseason game in 2017, he has not done that yet.

(08-14-2017, 11:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I forgot giving up zero sacks and run blocking well in preseason game does not fit your narrative of basing everything on last year. TY for the reminder of your bias hating on Ced.....LOL

Get back to us when Ced actually has a bad preseason game in 2017, he has not done that yet.

Yet again you can't manage to put together a legitimate argument. 

Scheme was there to keep him from getting roasted. His technique was shit and if the plays were more standard like we saw last year, the QB would have been lit up. 

Do you have an actual reply to this or are you going to come back with even more ad hominem attacks and ignore the issues of technique I raised? 

(08-14-2017, 11:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I forgot giving up zero sacks and run blocking well in preseason game does not fit your narrative of basing everything on last year. TY for the reminder of your bias hating on Ced.....LOL

Get back to us when Ced actually has a bad preseason game in 2017, he has not done that yet.

jeff driskel Is having a better year, so far, than Andy. He had a 118 rating vs Andys 75 rating.


I forgot having near perfect qb play in a preseason game does not fit your narrative of basing everything on last year.

(08-14-2017, 11:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: No they don't but they have other stand out traits. Ced does not. 
If he were a tough brawler with tech struggles, I'd agree with you. But he's passive to a fault. 

He didn't keep the QB upright. The scheme did. I think that's a huge distinction because when you need longer plays and you are going up against a starter for more than 2 drives, you need to know your LT can hold up. 

He wouldn't have been a 1st round pick if he didn't have any stand out traits.  

I think you personally prefer guys with that brawler attitude, and Og isn't that.  However, he doesn't have to play the way you would like him to play to be effective.

We didn't see longer plays, so we don't know if that's the case or not.  Every pass pro is a combination of the OL blocking, the receivers winning, and the QB getting the ball out fast.  I'll almost guarantee you that Whit gives up more sacks in LA that he did here.  The main thing we're looking for right now with this young OL is can we work a productive offense, and at first glance, we can.  Every team in the league uses a lot of quick passes to help the OL.  If we can do that, and we can run the ball effectively, then we can take some deep shots off play action to help the OL hold up.  Nobody expects Og to be Whit.  However, at first glance, he does not appear to the season imploder that some feared.

So let me get this straight. We are going to pretend last year didnt happen n base his skill off half a pre season game that doesnt count? Which he still wasnt great in. Fml

There's been no big difference with Ced. You take preseason games with a grain of salt, but there's been concern with Ogbuehi since he was drafted.

This is year 3 and there's no real improvement. He was the worst starting LT last year and they had to bench him because of how bad he was.

He allowed 9 sacks and 40 QB pressures in 11 starts. Even when he was pulled, he still allowed the sixth most pressures in the league of any offensive lineman as of week 14 (he was benched for 2 straight weeks at that point).

We've seen tweets and reports that Ced hasn't really looked all that great in camp either. So the offense has to scheme with that.

Dalton is good at read defenses pre-snap and getting the ball out quick. But this offense will mostly rely on YAC passes rather than allowing routes to develop. It also won't surprise me if Dalton reverts back to his 2011-12 pre-determined throws.

I haven't seen improvement from Ogbuehi, granted, one game, but there wasn't much to get excited about.

We're relying on hope with Ogbuehi. Hope that he reaches his "potential" so many people talk about.

However, on the bright side, the right side of the offensive line seemed solid with Fisher and Hopkins.

(08-14-2017, 10:12 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Scheme protected the QB.
If you read the post, you'd see that was the plan.

Good chat. 

Here are two problems with your statements.  First duh.. schemes are supposed to protect the QB at times, that is actually called coaching and putting in certain formations and to be more accurate it is not schemes that protect the QB the most as it is running the ball effective that does which the Bengals did do in the game.. another point Lapham made that helped us throw the ba..

.. Second problem is.. this is your option "that was the plan", I have read nothing from Marvin or OC that stated the game plan was to protect our Left tackle.. you seem very determined to show what you believe on tape issues with his blocking, so please do the same with the game plan... i guess i missed the quote from Marvin and OC on that...

Usually we mix in some intermediate throws and maybe a deep shot in preseason games. This game was exclusively lightning quick short stuff. It leads me to believe that the coaches were trying to build some confidence for this young line (Og, Fisher, Westerman). It makes sense. The offense is mostly seasoned vets that don't really need to work on much. The big question is the young line, so I can see that being a point of emphasis in the early preseason.

While I loved Royle's analysis and agree with it, I disagree that this will be our offense all season...just to protect Og. If so, why draft all the speed? I believe we'll eventually settle into our normal offense and they're probably hoping Og develops quickly. If he continues to struggle...it's going to be a long season, and instead of bombs to AJ, Ross and Malone, we're going to see Andy getting creamed constantly. 

Either way, I don't think the coaches will completely limit the offense to protect one guy. We'd be just as screwed doing that as we would be letting Og get smoked on intermediate and deep plays. In short, Ogbuehi needs a massive improvement or we're going to see a repeat of last year. Protecting him would be just as bad for the offense, so he better be ready to roll.

Great post. He needs some work; I'm not sure he'll ever develop into a solid LT considering how he's played thus far but it's still early in his career. I'm hoping he can develop over time.

(08-14-2017, 11:35 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And those people are likely just more talented and naturally gifted. 

If Ced was one of those, he wouldn't have looked like he did last year. 

This is where i'm going to have to completely disagree with you. Read any scouting report on him coming out of college and you will see it's believed that he is a naturally gifted athlete. His core strength, anchor and hands were consistent worries but it was generally believed that with work, he could be a solid T in the NFL. 

(08-14-2017, 07:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Great breakdown RoyaleRedlegs, thanks.

I'll continue to say I'm very concerned with Ogbuehi's play whether I get flamed or not. I've stated many, many times on here his passiveness greatly concerns me, his apparent and/or real lack of desire concerns me ! You can't coach that up - ever.

Guys keep talking about technique, confidence, footwork, etc. But the killer instinct is just not there, that's the downfall IMHO.

I felt the same about Margus Hunt. I feel Ogbuehi will follow the same path.

(08-15-2017, 03:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is where i'm going to have to completely disagree with you. Read any scouting report on him coming out of college and you will see it's believed that he is a naturally gifted athlete. His core strength, anchor and hands were consistent worries but it was generally believed that with work, he could be a solid T in the NFL. 

You don't take a project in the first round. Maybe they figured, "Well, we have 2-3 years to get this guy where he needs to be, so no worries!"
Fast forward to year 3 when they were surprised(?) Whit left and now they're stuck with an unrefined product.

Not worried about it. Coaches will light him up over the film. This is his year to make or break. He seriously can only go up, and I wasn't worried about the line play as a whole on Friday.

(08-15-2017, 12:50 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: So let me get this straight.   We are going to pretend last year didnt happen n base his skill off half a pre season game that doesnt count? Which he still wasnt great in.   Fml

We have been discussing our OL and in particular Ced for months. I have said repeatedly I am concerned just like everyone else. I never said ignore the past, not once. But, to ignore the fact he was not blown up and had a decent preseason game is also crap. My point simply is soming of you are gunning for him like the OP because he was so crappy a year ago. If he technique blows up and he gives up sacks or plays poorly in the run gun, go after him all you want, he deserves it. But to pretend with a crystal ball his technique was bad so the OC called plays to cover for him is pure speculation and based on a year ago stupid. Our OC called mostly quick plays 1 year ago with Whitt and Zeitler on the field so I tend to think that is our offense.

If Ced was struggling that bad (game 1 of preseason), they would simple roll a tight end over to assist him, I did not see them do that on pass plays.

(08-14-2017, 11:49 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yet again you can't manage to put together a legitimate argument. 

Scheme was there to keep him from getting roasted. His technique was shit and if the plays were more standard like we saw last year, the QB would have been lit up. 

Do you have an actual reply to this or are you going to come back with even more ad hominem attacks and ignore the issues of technique I raised? 

My legitimate argument is based on end results of preseason game #1, your whole analysis is based on speculation and things that did not happen. I don't care if he has bad technique as long as he protects the QB and creates holes for running backs.

(08-14-2017, 11:52 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: jeff driskel Is having a better year, so far, than Andy.  He had a 118 rating vs Andys 75 rating.  


I forgot having near perfect qb play in a preseason game does not fit your narrative of basing everything on last year.

Never said that at all. Never said preseason was like the regular season. I did say to make up things to support arguments (speculation) is an issue. Who said anything about a better year than another tackle? I said so far he looks better than last year, albeit marginally better while you and others see no improvement. That is fine and your opinion is your opinion and vice versa.