As Zerk says though, Ced allows defenders into his chest alot which allows them to dictate the battle. That's a Big Big No No

(08-15-2017, 11:36 AM)Synric Wrote: As Zerk says though, Ced allows defenders into his chest alot which allows them to dictate the battle. That's a Big Big No No

Replace Jon Snow with Cedric Ogbuehi....

(08-14-2017, 07:04 PM)McC Wrote: Just get better each week, Ced.  The CedO police will have you under a microscope all year.

He's had 52 of them and is still trash.

(08-15-2017, 11:44 AM)Lawless_1 Wrote: He's had 52 of them and is still trash.

(08-15-2017, 11:44 AM)Lawless_1 Wrote: He's had 52 of them and is still trash.

Or he's had 52 times to get better? Edison once said "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

(08-15-2017, 12:22 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Or he's had 52 times to get better? Edison once said "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

Some would say that's more than enough opportunities to try to find some way that works.
Luckily for Ogbuehi, he's a Bengal, so he'll get all the chances in the world.
Just ask Adam Jones.

(08-15-2017, 10:54 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea a lot of people think that speed can only be utilized for deep routes. He's ridiculous in short routes and screens too.

...

Ross is so much more than just a deep threat. I thought everyone figured that out by now after all the draft-time debating, but I guess not...

Just to clear it up, I wasn't saying Ross is only a deep threat. I've been telling anyone who will listen that Ross is a complete WR. So I know we're not going to line him up to run nines all day. 

Still, if you guys think Ross was only drafted to gain YAC on slants and screens, I'd say you'll be surprised. They will send him deep sometimes. I don't care how bad Og is. There's too much value in taking the top off the defense (ask Randy "one clap" Moss), and teams won't respect that ability if we never play that hand.

(08-15-2017, 12:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just to clear it up, I wasn't saying Ross is only a deep threat. I've been telling anyone who will listen that Ross is a complete WR. So I know we're not going to line him up to run nines all day. 

Still, if you guys think Ross was only drafted to gain YAC on slants and screens, I'd say you'll be surprised. They will send him deep sometimes. I don't care how bad Og is. There's too much value in taking the top off the defense (ask Randy "one clap" Moss), and teams won't respect that ability if we never play that hand.

9s and posts won't be a problem even with a stutter step. Those can actually be quick throws because it's arching the ball and dropping it into a place on the field. It's plays like a 15 yard crosser where thr QB has to wait for the WR to run thr route then put it on a rope. ( Those throws were never great for Dalton anyway...)

(08-15-2017, 12:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Some would say that's more than enough opportunities to try to find some way that works.
Luckily for Ogbuehi, he's a Bengal, so he'll get all the chances in the world.
Just ask Adam Jones.

Sure, but just because he's not good now doesn't mean it's indicative to how he's going to be later on. Big Whit didn't start out as a pro-bowler either. Just saying we can be critical of his current play but lets slow down on what that means later on down the road.

(08-15-2017, 10:16 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Being a great athlete is the singular most overrated quality an offensive linemen can be labeled with. 
It's just not that important. Can it help? sure. 

But only if you have the other tools to make it work.

And seriously go watch his tape at TAMU, I still don't see what about it is first round OT. He never dominates a game. 
It's school hype (Matthews and Joeckel right before him) and bizarre fascination with measurables and athleticism on the OL. 

The surprising part is, as much as his shortcomings are pointed out, regardless of the report, he was still considered a 1st or 2nd round pick. Even with all the negatives and maybes.

Not surprising though that a team would value athleticism. Quickness and speed...any coach believes he can teach/correct the fundamentals of the technique. That's probably a bigger flaw than anything. 

I've watched a few TAMU games in the past and a couple recently. The biggest thing that pops out to me are how easily it seems he gets off balance and how tall he plays. He seems/seemed to engage and bow his back after absorbing contact. It's never looked pretty. 

I'm always a little reluctant to engage in these kinds of discussions when i'm not completely confident in what i'm fighting for. I get everything you're saying. You're critiquing his technique and his ability to improve it. Where it was and where it still is. I'm looking at it more as Ced the football player. Snap by snap, is he keeping his guy off his ball carriers. In that department, i don't see how anyone can say he's not improved from last year. Albeit, one half of one preseason game.

(08-15-2017, 10:17 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: At no point did they run a deep drop for the QB. 
At no point did they run a long developing play.

But you keep telling yourself their plan wasn't to hide the limitations of our tackles. 

 

At the time, i thought the same thing. And now i still mostly do. But i did go back and watch the 1st preseason game from the last 3 years and that is a theme early in the games. Quick passing. Now, in those games, there were a couple times they took a deep drop and threw the ball downfield, where last Friday they did not at all. 

I think there will be much more longer developing plays this week though. If not, there's no denying it's a scheme thing. 

(08-15-2017, 01:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Sure, but just because he's not good now doesn't mean it's indicative to how he's going to be later on. Big Whit didn't start out as a pro-bowler either. Just saying we can be critical of his current play but lets slow down on what that means later on down the road.

That's true, but the Bengals don't really have the time to "wait and see". They have a playoff-caliber roster and a good amount of their star players are in their prime or approaching the end. They need to be in win-now mode at least to some extent.

And Whitworth was a bit different, as the Bengals had Levi Jones and Willie Anderson as their starting OTs for Whit's first few years. Whit had an extra year of grooming compared to Ogbuehi and was already a starter at LG in which he played very well, so we had more hope he could transition. The Bengals were lucky they went from one stalwart LT to another very good LT.
However, Ogbuehi has been bad both years he's been in the lineup and now is practically forced into LT because there's no one better. Given his previous performance, I simply lack hope.

(08-15-2017, 01:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The surprising part is, as much as his shortcomings are pointed out, regardless of the report, he was still considered a 1st or 2nd round pick. Even with all the negatives and maybes.

Not surprising though that a team would value athleticism. Quickness and speed...any coach believes he can teach/correct the fundamentals of the technique. That's probably a bigger flaw than anything. 

I've watched a few TAMU games in the past and a couple recently. The biggest thing that pops out to me are how easily it seems he gets off balance and how tall he plays. He seems/seemed to engage and bow his back after absorbing contact. It's never looked pretty. 

I'm always a little reluctant to engage in these kinds of discussions when i'm not completely confident in what i'm fighting for. I get everything you're saying. You're critiquing his technique and his ability to improve it. Where it was and where it still is. I'm looking at it more as Ced the football player. Snap by snap, is he keeping his guy off his ball carriers. In that department, i don't see how anyone can say he's not improved from last year. Albeit, one half of one preseason game.

He's missing one of these....

(08-15-2017, 01:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's true, but the Bengals don't really have the time to "wait and see". They have a playoff-caliber roster and a good amount of their star players are in their prime or approaching the end. They need to be in win-now mode at least to some extent.

And Whitworth was a bit different, as the Bengals had Levi Jones and Willie Anderson as their starting OTs for Whit's first few years. Whit had an extra year of grooming compared to Ogbuehi and was already a starter at LG in which he played very well, so we had more hope he could transition. The Bengals were lucky they went from one stalwart LT to another very good LT.
However, Ogbuehi has been bad both years he's been in the lineup and now is practically forced into LT because there's no one better. Given his previous performance, I simply lack hope.

Both years?

Come on man, he was injured his rookie year. How many games did he play in coming off major surgery in January?

(08-15-2017, 01:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's true, but the Bengals don't really have the time to "wait and see". They have a playoff-caliber roster and a good amount of their star players are in their prime or approaching the end. They need to be in win-now mode at least to some extent.

And Whitworth was a bit different, as the Bengals had Levi Jones and Willie Anderson as their starting OTs for Whit's first few years. Whit had an extra year of grooming compared to Ogbuehi and was already a starter at LG in which he played very well, so we had more hope he could transition. The Bengals were lucky they went from one stalwart LT to another very good LT.
However, Ogbuehi has been bad both years he's been in the lineup and now is practically forced into LT because there's no one better. Given his previous performance, I simply lack hope.

Really? This is a team coming off a poor season and you are putting it all on one LT?

We have lots of targets based on 2016 results, not just one player, but many.

(08-15-2017, 01:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Both years?

Come on man, he was injured his rookie year. How many games did he play in coming off major surgery in January?

Doesn't matter. An injured year is still a year of good production lost. He been at the bottom of the barrel since he got here.
This year is very big for him. I expect it likely means drafting a first round OT to replace him as the starter vs a mid-round OT to back him up.

(08-15-2017, 01:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Really? This is a team coming off a poor season and you are putting it all on one LT?

We have lots of targets based on 2016 results, not just one player, but many.

Culprit #1 for the poor season last year = Cedric Ogbuehi
Culprit #2 for the poor season last year = Russell Bodine

Nothing either has done has given me confidence. If it's given you confidence or you prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, great. That's your choice.
As Marvin says, I see better than I hear.

Unless Bodine and/or Ogbuehi shows vast improvement this year, replacement(s) need to come via FA or early in the draft next year.

(08-15-2017, 01:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The surprising part is, as much as his shortcomings are pointed out, regardless of the report, he was still considered a 1st or 2nd round pick. Even with all the negatives and maybes.

Not surprising though that a team would value athleticism. Quickness and speed...any coach believes he can teach/correct the fundamentals of the technique. That's probably a bigger flaw than anything. 

I've watched a few TAMU games in the past and a couple recently. The biggest thing that pops out to me are how easily it seems he gets off balance and how tall he plays. He seems/seemed to engage and bow his back after absorbing contact. It's never looked pretty. 

I'm always a little reluctant to engage in these kinds of discussions when i'm not completely confident in what i'm fighting for. I get everything you're saying. You're critiquing his technique and his ability to improve it. Where it was and where it still is. I'm looking at it more as Ced the football player. Snap by snap, is he keeping his guy off his ball carriers. In that department, i don't see how anyone can say he's not improved from last year. Albeit, one half of one preseason game.

The surprising part is, he shouldn't have been a first round pick. His tape was never that good. Teams got enamored by his measurables and hype. It happens all the time. 
Teams are run by humans. They make mistakes and have flaws too. 

He never had the right kind of quickness but they raved about his athleticism so people bought it. 

The biggest issue with Ced is that he was a first round pick when he never should have been. He was injured and had serious technique issues. He was a project from day 1. 
Plenty of OL guys (Duke Manyweather, Geoff Schwartz etc) have been saying there is a problem in the league with identifying and developing OL. Part of it starts in college and there is a problem in the NFL too. 

Teams that get it, seem to always strike gold there. Other teams...not so much. 
 Extreme example is Dallas. 
Why does Dallas always seem to find great talent? 
Tyron, La'el, Martin, Cleary, Fredrick...etc
Because they get guys who have a clear defined set of traits that are great for building a productive offensive linemen. 

Remember, people thought they were insane drafting Travis Fredrick (I was one of them) and they proved everyone wrong. 
They were ahead of the game in scouting and developing OL. 

(08-15-2017, 01:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Doesn't matter. An injured year is still a year of good production lost. He been at the bottom of the barrel since he got here.
This year is very big for him. I expect it likely means drafting a first round OT to replace him as the starter vs a mid-round OT to back him up.

I think that's what the Bengals are planning right now. It's obvious that the OL is the weakest part of the team. I think we might do another 2015 draft and pick OL early and often. I'm always for drafting OL high. Just look at Dallas. Their OL is one of the best in the league, and that's why their offense is so powerful. They can  have any RB or QB behind them and it will make them look good.

There is often a lot of bad form in preseason games. It's why we have the preseason in the first place....