(08-17-2017, 01:21 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Ced defenders point to Boiling as an example of an offensive lineman who struggled early for us. This is a false comparison for two major reasons. The first, and most obvious, being that he is a guard and Ced is a tackle. The second, that while Boiling certainly struggled his first year he showed flashes of what would make him an above average starting guard in the league, then showed tremendous improvement in his 2nd year to where he is now. Ced has shown literally nothing that would make me think he could even be an average tackle in this league. He gets beat by every move imaginable. His "quick feet" which was supposed to be a strength seem to have all but disappeared. If Ced continues to struggle this year and isn't pulled after at least 3 games someone should lose their job. 

Who are all these Ced defenders?  The most I've really heard anybody say is that he looked a little better against TB and maybe he's not a lost cause and this includes Bob Johnson, Dave Lapham and Anthony Munoz, who, if memory serves, all played the line in the league with a degree of success.  (Oops. I forgot, they're all paid to say exactly what Mike wants them to say.) Somehow this has turned into a cavalry of ardent defenders ignoring all the bad.
 
Guess you're not even allowed to hope for the best around here any more.  If you do, that makes you an ostrich or a toadie for Mike Brown.

I'll say this--if Ced somehow turns it around, a lot of amateur experts are gonna look like a real bunch of blowhards.   Such certainty expressed on Ced.  

(08-17-2017, 01:27 PM)McC Wrote: I haven't defended any decisions.  I'm just trying not to drown in the doom and gloom and the piling on.  All I've ever said is why not wait and see what happens.  But what fun is that, right?

Some people (especially those who take the time and effort to analyze the roster, FA, and draft prospects) like to see how knowledgeable they are on something, so if Ced fails and they predicted it beforehand, it gives them justification that they know what they are talking about.

I don't personally see anything wrong with that, but it's just not for everyone.

Yeah I do see a huge run of people essentially hoping he fails so they pile on.

(08-17-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I do see a huge run of people essentially hoping he fails so they pile on.

Show me one person who wants Ced to fail. 

(08-17-2017, 01:45 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Show me one person who wants Ced to fail. 

Yeah.  Everybody just loves to be publicly proven wrong.  And the bigger the stink they made, the more they hope to be wrong. 

There is a difference between pointing out what someone is doing wrong and declaring him hopeless, a declaration which implies some knowledge of the future and/or knowledge of the character and determination of the man.

(08-17-2017, 01:05 PM)McC Wrote: Fisher has a chance to make it, doesn't he?  Seems like you pointed out quite a few good things he did.

Sure. And he possessed great value in the 2nd. If you switched his and Ced's draft spot, things look a lot different. But when I say the wrong two, I just think we could have had better players at the same positions given our draft spots. That's not a dig on Fisher.
I was unreasonably high on TJ Clemmings, fell for his physical attributes. He never put it together. Very similar to Ced in that regard but in the 4th round, wouldn't have been bad.
DJ Humphries is another I was high on and he's putting it together for Arizona. Would have liked him at 21. He's seemingly turning it on from some AZ reports. 

It really was a pretty shitty OT class in hindsight. Still think La'el might end up the best of the bunch. He's getting his shot at RT this year. No idea why it was a "miss" as someone claimed before. He was a stud LG then hurt his toe. But I digress. 

(08-17-2017, 01:52 PM)McC Wrote: Yeah.  Everybody just loves to be publicly proven wrong.  And the bigger the stink they made, the more they hope to be wrong. 

There is a difference between pointing out what someone is doing wrong and declaring him hopeless, a declaration which implies some knowledge of the future and/or knowledge of the character and determination of the man.

No, there's openly critiquing play and saying he has to get better or he will fail.

And there's saying "Gee, I hope he fails"

If you don't see the difference, we are done talking. 

No one , not one Bengals fan wants to see Ced fail. Thats ridiculous. Just cause we didnt like the pick we dont hope for him to fail. But once we see the severe struggles with the already bias towards him we have a shorter leash . Unlike the Bengals defender's who will never give up on a player n justify everything the Bengals do. They defended Guicic, Rivers Akili, Bodine, Maualuga the list goes on.

I don't want anyone on the team to fail. I just want the TEAM to succeed.

(08-17-2017, 01:52 PM)McC Wrote: Yeah.  Everybody just loves to be publicly proven wrong.  And the bigger the stink they made, the more they hope to be wrong. 

There is a difference between pointing out what someone is doing wrong and declaring him hopeless, a declaration which implies some knowledge of the future and/or knowledge of the character and determination of the man.

I would absolutely love for Ced to prove me wrong. 

(08-17-2017, 08:58 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: To be fair he was supposed to be good. You can't hit every draft. I'm always for drafting OL early. Every team that seems to prioritize their OL seems to do really well. Just look at Dallas.

Yeah, but our "HOF O line Coach" was the guy evaluating who we took......we ain't Dallas.

(08-17-2017, 03:58 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, but our "HOF O line Coach" was the guy evaluating who we took......we ain't Dallas.

He climbed on a table for Ced. Also called him a top 5 talent when healthy.

(08-17-2017, 04:00 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: He climbed on a table for Ced. Also called him a top 5 talent when healthy.

Yyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppp!!!!!! Don't forget the Bodine "witch hunt" either....

(08-17-2017, 04:00 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: He climbed on a table for Ced. Also called him a top 5 talent when healthy.

Well dude's healthy now. Where that top 5 talent at? I haven't seen it yet.

(08-17-2017, 03:58 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, but our "HOF O line Coach" was the guy evaluating who we took......we ain't Dallas.

I think the key there is coach.

He aint no scout but they let coaches have so much sway over it, I sometimes wonder if they take scouts' advice on things. 
Personally, I think coaches/scouts look for different things in players. Coaches always believe they can fix problems. 
Scouts are (or should be) more grey in their outlook. 

(08-17-2017, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well dude's healthy now. Where that top 5 talent at? I haven't seen it yet.

I never saw it with him. Hoped I was wrong. But between Ced and TJ Clemmings, I've learned a lot about the process. 

(08-17-2017, 04:08 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I think the key there is coach.

He aint no scout but they let coaches have so much sway over it, I sometimes wonder if they take scouts' advice on things. 
Personally, I think coaches/scouts look for different things in players. Coaches always believe they can fix problems. 
Scouts are (or should be) more grey in their outlook. 

True that......but he hasn't seemed to be able to do the coaching up thing either.....

(08-17-2017, 04:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yyyyyyuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppp!!!!!! Don't forget the Bodine "witch hunt" either....

"Nasty" Nate Livings

(08-17-2017, 04:10 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: "Nasty" Nate Livings

 ....thanks for reminding me!

(08-17-2017, 04:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: True that......but he hasn't seemed to be able to do the coaching up thing either.....

Jake Fisher disagrees.