re: The Bengals model of not extensively using free agents while we have starting needs at several positions (including 4 offensive line spots) and only using the draft and letting guys walk so we get compensatory picks.

As Bengals fans, we drastically underestimate the quality of free agents we lose and drastically overestimate the production that we will get from rookies.

I've documented how we have the smallest Scouting Department by far in the AFC North.

Ask yourself: Are our fewer scouts soo much superior to the rest of the NFL that we don't need to use free agency?

We could draft 7 guys that fans have never heard of and you'd all be hyped up here on the board. But, the impact you get from rookies is minimal. The losses we've experienced from free agency over the past 2 years was maximal.

(09-11-2017, 11:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: The Bengals model of not extensively using free agents while we have starting needs at several positions (including 4 offensive line spots) and only using the draft and letting guys walk so we get compensatory picks.

As Bengals fans, we drastically underestimate the quality of free agents we lose and drastically overestimate the production that we will get for rookies.

I've documented how we have the smallest Scouting Department by far in the AFC North.

Ask yourself: Are our fewer scouts soo much superior to the rest of the NFL that we don't need to use free agency?

We could draft 7 guys that fans have never heard of and you'd all be hyped up here on the board. But, the impact you get from rookies is minimal. The losses we've experienced from free agency over the past 2 years was maximal.

Which rookie that was drafted this year was going to contribute on the OL.

Your line of thinking is flawed, bengals never let players walk thinking they will get a rookie replacement. They draft replacements 1-2 years in advance.

Who was John Ross, mixon, Lawson, Willis, etc replacing that left during Fa?

I am not agreeing that it is right, just saying it is different than what you are saying.

(09-11-2017, 11:50 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Which rookie that was drafted this year was going to contribute on the OL.

Your line of thinking is flawed, bengals never let players walk thinking they will get a rookie replacement.  They draft replacements 1-2 years in advance.

Who was John Ross, mixon, Lawson, Willis, etc replacing that left during Fa?

I am not agreeing that it is right, just saying it is different than what you are saying.

You totally missed my point. I stated nowhere in there that the guys drafted this year were direct replacements for the offensive line.

They drafted Ced and Fisher to replace Whitworth and Smith and those players flopped and they refused to use free agency.

Then fans were all on the Mixon is so great he doesn't need blocking...and we have so much speed at WR with John Ross that no team will be able to stop our offense hype train.

We've lost Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Zeitler, Peko, and Whitworth over the past 2 years and the guys we've replaced them with have been lesser players everywhere but WR.

(09-11-2017, 11:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You totally missed my point. I stated nowhere in there that the guys drafted this year were direct replacements for the offensive line.

They drafted Ced and Fisher to replace Whitworth and Smith and those players flopped and they refused to use free agency.

Then fans were all on the Mixon is so great he doesn't need blocking...and we have so much speed at WR with John Ross that no team will be able to stop our offense hype train.

We've lost Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Zeitler, Peko, and Whitworth over the past 2 years and the guys we've replaced them with have been lesser players everywhere but WR.

No, I get it. Didn't miss a thing, but I don't think any fan comes to expect anything from rookies. And no one was banging the drums saying cedO would be able to replace whit. Or smith would replace worker.

EVERYONE , save for a handful, saw OL as a a huge concern all offseason.

And our Defense was still good towards the end of last year so while a downgrade from Nelson to Williams. I'm not sure it's as noticeable as the OL. And peko, by all accounts was bad, one of the worst in the league. So I think we give billings and the others a few games to see what we have.

The strategy really hasn't been all bad except for OL. Clearly you will have a regression initially, But hopefully that player increases production as games/years go by.

(09-11-2017, 12:03 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: No, I get it. Didn't miss a thing,  but I don't think any fan comes to expect anything from rookies. And no one was banging the drums saying cedO would be able to replace whit.  Or smith would replace worker.

EVERYONE , save for a handful, saw OL as a a huge concern all offseason.

And our Defense was still good towards the end of last year so while a downgrade from Nelson to Williams. I'm not sure it's as noticeable as the OL.  And peko, by all accounts was bad, one of the worst in the league. So I think we give billings and the others a few games to see what we have.

The strategy really hasn't been all bad except for OL.  Clearly you will have a regression initially, But hopefully that player increases production as games/years go by.

Do you read these boards?

There were posts about how the offensive line would be much improved. Posts about how Ced was playing awesome in the preseason. Posts about how Ross's speed would make the offense unstoppable. Posts about how Mixon could run behind any offensive lines and be productive.

We were a 6.5 win team last year. Of course the losses of players hurt us. And your bolded part illustrates the point. When a 6.5 win team loses it's 2 best offensive lineman and 'regresses initially'...they become a 4-5 win team as we're seeing.

After 26+ years with NO PLAYOFF WINS...some fans will still tout every Bengals move as the right move.

(09-11-2017, 12:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you read these boards?

There were posts about how the offensive line would be much improved. Posts about how Ced was playing awesome in the preseason. Posts about how Ross's speed would make the offense unstoppable. Posts about how Mixon could run behind any offensive lines and be productive.

We were a 6.5 win team last year. Of course the losses of players hurt us. And your bolded part illustrates the point. When a 6.5 win team loses it's 2 best offensive lineman and 'regresses initially'...they become a 4-5 win team as we're seeing.

After 26+ years with NO PLAYOFF WINS...some fans will still tout every Bengals move as the right move.

I do read the boards, must have missed the one about awesome ced. I think people were trying to find any silver lining and hoping he wasn't the worst LT in the NFL, that's far from awesomeness. Lol

I don't think the losses of Nelson and peko really shirt the defense much. Especially when healthy, i don't agree letting Nelson go, but I can understand it. LT and RG on the other hand, unforgivable

(09-11-2017, 12:17 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I do read the boards, must have missed the one about awesome ced.  I think people were trying to find any silver lining and hoping he wasn't the worst LT in the NFL, that's far from awesomeness. Lol

I don't think the losses of Nelson and peko really shirt the defense much.  Especially when healthy, i don't agree letting Nelson go, but I can understand it.  LT and RG on the other hand, unforgivable

(09-11-2017, 11:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: The Bengals model of not extensively using free agents while we have starting needs at several positions (including 4 offensive line spots) and only using the draft and letting guys walk so we get compensatory picks.

As Bengals fans, we drastically underestimate the quality of free agents we lose and drastically overestimate the production that we will get from rookies.

I've documented how we have the smallest Scouting Department by far in the AFC North.

Ask yourself: Are our fewer scouts soo much superior to the rest of the NFL that we don't need to use free agency?

We could draft 7 guys that fans have never heard of and you'd all be hyped up here on the board. But, the impact you get from rookies is minimal. The losses we've experienced from free agency over the past 2 years was maximal.

Every team is happy with their draft class...just like every team is happy with their FA haul.  What's your point?  Plenty of draft picks don't make an impact, just like plenty of FA signings don't pan out.

I was very happy with the first four rounds. I thought the 5th through 7th round picks sucked.

(09-11-2017, 12:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Every team is happy with their draft class...just like every team is happy with their FA haul.  What's your point?  Plenty of draft picks don't make an impact, just like plenty of FA signings don't pan out.

I'm NEVER HAPPY with our free agent signings.

Lose Core Free Agents + Don't Sign Impact Free Agents + Have Average to Below Average Draft Class = A 6.5 Win Team Getting Worse

Yet every homer on here is talking about how our offense will be unstoppable this year.

PFF had our roster ranked the 23rd most talented in the NFL going into this season. 23rd!

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/6/29/15881560/bengals-offensive-line-team-ranked-among-nfl-worst-rosters

(09-11-2017, 01:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm NEVER HAPPY with our free agent signings.

Lose Core Free Agents + Don't Sign Impact Free Agents + Have Average to Below Average Draft Class = A 6.5 Win Team Getting Worse

Yet every homer on here is talking about how our offense will be unstoppable this year.

I'm still looking for these "unstoppable" threads you mention.


I'd say there was more concern threads than homer threads this summer.

(09-11-2017, 01:34 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I'm still looking for these "unstoppable" threads you mention.


I'd say there was more concern threads than homer threads this summer.

I said Posts not Threads.

(09-11-2017, 11:50 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Which rookie that was drafted this year was going to contribute on the OL.

Your line of thinking is flawed, bengals never let players walk thinking they will get a rookie replacement.  They draft replacements 1-2 years in advance.

Who was John Ross, mixon, Lawson, Willis, etc replacing that left during Fa?

I am not agreeing that it is right, just saying it is different than what you are saying.

What did Ced O show to make you/the Bengals think he would be an adequate Whit replacement? 

(09-11-2017, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I said Posts not Threads.

Here is a thread that I think shows fans being caustiosuly optimistic, but no one is saying awesome, or world beater. And it's ok as a fan to be optimistic, just don't be delusional.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Ogbuehi-Showed-A-Lot-Of-Improvement

(09-11-2017, 01:39 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: What did Ced O show to make you/the Bengals think he would be an adequate Whit replacement? 

Nothing, at all. But we didn't rely on a rookie this year to step up for whit. Just pointing out the difference, that is all.

(09-11-2017, 01:41 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Nothing, at all.  But we didn't rely on a rookie this year to step up for whit. Just pointing out the difference, that is all.

Yeah...you totally missed my point from when I started this thread.

My point was we've lost a bunch of core free agents over the past 2 years. Guys who were solid starters. Then because we don't sign free agents, most of our additions were rookies who haven't produced. Aside from that it's relying on the backups who were already here.

So replace a quality starter with a backup who isn't that good.

Then fans wonder why we lose 20-0.