(09-15-2017, 12:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Over the past 2 free agency periods we lost a bunch of experienced, quality starters.

1 ) Jones - Starting WR2
2 ) Sanu - Quality WR3
3 ) Nelson - Starting Safety and great against the pass
4 ) Whitworth - Starting LT, perennial Pro Bowl player, and Team Leader
5 ) Zeitler - Starting Guard - Nearing Pro Bowl caliber
6 ) Peko - Team leader and run stuffer
7 ) Maualuga - Run stuffing LB but terrible against the pass
8 ) Leon Hall - Good CB with experience who was used to cover mainly slot receivers his last year here.
9 ) Dansby
10 ) Lamur
11 ) Andre Smith when he was starting RT. (He came back as a backup G.) When he was our starting Tackle...he was pretty good.
12 ) Burkhead

The 1st wave of losses pushed us down to a 6.5 win team. Then we lost our 2 best offensive lineman this past offseason and so far are 0-2.

We don't really sign more than bargain bin free agents so these guys weren't replaced much there. Lafell was a good signing. Minter appears to be.

Then our drafts haven't been producing a lot of impact. In time they may, but they haven't produced enough impact to negate these losses.

Plain and simple we're rebuilding. On offense alone we need 4 starting caliber lineman. Possible a starting TE depending on Eifert. On defense, we may need upgrades at DT, DE, and LB.

Probably too many holes to fix in one offseason...especially since we only sign bargain bin free agents.

Lol teams don't rebuild anymore they reload, In the old days you get 3 to 4 years to rebuild but today its win now. Marvin  has rebuilt 3 times and still losing he needs to go period.

They drafted replacements for each & every one of those players you've listed. They even signed some decent Free Agents in Minter & Lafell as replacements, too. All of them have worked out to a certain degree except for the Oline.

The Oline doesn't look that much different than they did a year ago, so I'm not sure how much losing Whit & Z have really hurt. Yeah they were the best two blockers, but that doesn't say much for a unit that looks exactly the same. Perhaps there wouldn't be quite as much pressure coming through had one or both re signed but let's not forget, they still gave up a ton of pressure last year even with those two here.

Anthony Munoz seems sold on Cedric being capable. So let's hope the problems we've seen these past two seasons have more to do with schematics than it does ability.

Hmm... I don't think it was a rebuild. I think what upsets me the most is that they treated almost every other position like they were trying to load up for a playoff team, but treated the o-line like it was a rebuild.

That sucks, and it's the reason why we went from where we were in 2015 to now.

And to think that somehow that HORRIBLE ending to that playoff game is now one of the better memories I have of them, because they could light up a scoreboard and had a nasty defense.

(09-15-2017, 12:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Over the past 2 free agency periods we lost a bunch of experienced, quality starters.

1 ) Jones - Starting WR2 (Lafell has replaced his production last year)
2 ) Sanu - Quality WR3 (Boyd replaced his production last year)
3 ) Nelson - Starting Safety and great against the pass (outside of a play here or there, the secondary hasn't been an issue)
4 ) Whitworth - Starting LT, perennial Pro Bowl player, and Team Leader (Big miss)
5 ) Zeitler - Starting Guard - Nearing Pro Bowl caliber (big miss)
6 ) Peko - Team leader and run stuffer (from all accounts he was garbage and one of the worst tackles, not a top 1/2 of the roster player as you say)
7 ) Maualuga - Run stuffing LB but terrible against the pass (not missed and minter/vigil/rey are fine replacements)
8 ) Leon Hall - Good CB with experience who was used to cover mainly slot receivers his last year here. (Again, secondary has been fine since hall lef)
9 ) Dansby (was terrible last year, vigil, minter, Rey are all adequate replacements)
10 ) Lamur (see above)
11 ) Andre Smith when he was starting RT. (He came back as a backup G.) When he was our starting Tackle...he was pretty good. (He is back on the team now so I don't know why he is here. It hurt us last year but if he can't crack the starting OL rotation, he clearly isn't good)
12 ) Burkhead (only played bc of injuries. He is a dime a dozen running back and he wouldn't sniff the field with mixon, gio, hill)

The 1st wave of losses pushed us down to a 6.5 win team. Then we lost our 2 best offensive lineman this past offseason and so far are 0-2.

We don't really sign more than bargain bin free agents so these guys weren't replaced much there. Lafell was a good signing. Minter appears to be.

Then our drafts haven't been producing a lot of impact. In time they may, but they haven't produced enough impact to negate these losses.

Plain and simple we're rebuilding. On offense alone we need 4 starting caliber lineman. Possible a starting TE depending on Eifert. On defense, we may need upgrades at DT, DE, and LB.

Probably too many holes to fix in one offseason...especially since we only sign bargain bin free agents.

See my comments above for each position. The bengals have done a great job of liking in adequate replacements except for whit and zeitler. If you want to argue Nelson I will give you that as well.

But you also need to mention the bengals added a ton of speed with LB/De over the last two years in the draft. William Jackson looks like a good player. Boyd and Lafell might be better than Sanu and jones.

The biggest difference in this team over the last 3 years, is losing Hue, and then losing whit and zeitler. That's all

This team isn't rebuilding, it's coaching plain and simple.

(09-15-2017, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd love to see Green go to the Patriots and get a ring. He honestly deserves it.

No way would any NFL team give us a 1st and 2nd Round pick for Burfict.

That's funny, because I'd love to see AJ Green eat shit if he were on the Patriots. He doesn't "deserve" a damn thing. He's at the top of his profession, making good loot, married with a kid. He's doin' alright. I don't pity a damn player on the Bengals, and **** the Patriots (and the other 30 NFL teams.)

(09-15-2017, 12:29 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I don't see us as a rebuilding team. I see us as more of a falling apart team.

(09-15-2017, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: No way would any NFL team give us a 1st and 2nd Round pick for Burfict.

I bet you the Steelers would.

My take on this team is that they always try to project financially ahead of the curve but totally fall behind on replacing players that underperform.

They're always a few seasons off of cutting bait and making upgrades.

Instead they roll with what they got and try to throw bargain bin players or draft picks up against the wall to see if they stick.

My question is ? Why would a team that had a dismal season last year,give up so many players through free agency. I think if I'm trying to rebuild, I would bring in draft picks to have my future free agents work with those guys to help get the rookies on board. It seems as though ML and MB can't figure  that out!

I wouldn't say we're in rebuild mode quite yet. We are a semi-competent offensive line and a semi-competent head coach away from contending. QB may be a question mark, and we'll see how that goes throughout the rest of the season. This current offensive line very well may break Dalton. Not just physically but mentally as well. David Carr 2.0??

(09-16-2017, 10:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I bet you the Steelers would.

Burfict hates the Steelers and the Steelers hate him. I can't see that happening

Rebuilding...

Our only problem is O line and coaching.

(09-16-2017, 04:28 PM)Older Than You Wrote: Rebuilding...

Our only problem is O line and coaching.

agreed and quarterback, but people can't admit that. 

(09-16-2017, 04:30 PM)Okeana Wrote: agreed and quarterback, but people can't admit that. 

Our QB is fine, his line playing so bad that he's become jumpy and inaccurate is not however.

It's really about weapons and using them. Andy has never really had a ton of weapons when you think about it (despite our love with drafting 'would be' weapons). And Andy isn't elite enough to make everyone around him better, like a top five QB would.

How many seasons has Andy had a good running game? Two at the most, really more like one (2014)? Other than AJ what has Andy had to pass to, Jerome Simpson for one year, Marvin Jones for one year, Tyler Eifert for one year. And by "one year" I mean they were only good here for one year, whether it be due to injury or inconsistent play.

We like to think and say Andy has always had good talented weapons around him, but he really hasn't. They've always been either inconsistent or mismanaged (ie Gio). 

1 ) Jones - wanted to be a wr1
2 ) Sanu - can be easily replaced, wr3s are a dime a dozen
3 ) Nelson - old
4 ) Whitworth - old
5 ) Zeitler - wanted out of here
6 ) Peko - old, and terrible
7 ) Maualuga - old, and terrible
8 ) Leon Hall - again - old
9 ) Dansby - was on a 1 year contract and was HORRIBLE
10 ) Lamur - TERRIBLE
11 ) Andre Smith when he was starting RT. that was 2 years ago
12 ) Burkhead - a rb3 at best

We are not rebuilding when we have 2 of our best players in their prime (green, and burfict)
Not to mention, our QB who should be about in his prime.
Our coach who is in his last year of his contract.

We are not building, we are just failing. point blank

We needed OL in the draft, and drafted skill players.
This year is a fail

(09-16-2017, 05:21 PM)Gohards Wrote: We needed OL in the draft, and drafted skill players.
This year is a fail

This epic fail right here may have been an even bigger blunder than the Zampese debacle. Especially if Og and Fish don't pan out.

(09-16-2017, 05:21 PM)Gohards Wrote: 1 ) Jones - wanted to be a wr1
2 ) Sanu - can be easily replaced, wr3s are a dime a dozen
3 ) Nelson - old
4 ) Whitworth - old
5 ) Zeitler - wanted out of here
6 ) Peko - old, and terrible
7 ) Maualuga - old, and terrible
8 ) Leon Hall - again - old
9 ) Dansby - was on a 1 year contract and was HORRIBLE
10 ) Lamur - TERRIBLE
11 ) Andre Smith when he was starting RT. that was 2 years ago
12 ) Burkhead - a rb3 at best

We are not rebuilding when we have 2 of our best players in their prime (green, and burfict)
Not to mention, our QB who should be about in his prime.
Our coach who is in his last year of his contract.

We are not building, we are just failing. point blank

We needed OL in the draft, and drafted skill players.
This year is a fail

Totally agree with this.  Complete failure from the top down.  The whole line looks like hot garbage and barring any amazing trades, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

The scary part is we're going to be rebuilding sooner than you we think as Green and Atkins will both be on the wrong side of 30 soon enough.
It's a total shame that this team is not a contender.  Unfathomable really.

I think we're at the crossroads this season, especially when it comes to Lewis and/or Dalton.  Is it possible to win without either/both of them?

Ultimately, Mike Brown will decide, or maybe Katie if we're lucky given MB's track record.  

(09-16-2017, 04:30 PM)Okeana Wrote: agreed and quarterback, but people can't admit that. 

So we need 4 offensive lineman and a QB and a new coaching staff.

Yeah...doesn't sound like rebuilding to me.

(09-16-2017, 01:30 PM)firstand10 Wrote: My question is ? Why would a team that had a dismal season last year,give up so many players through free agency. I think if I'm trying to rebuild, I would bring in draft picks to have my future free agents work with those guys to help get the rookies on board. It seems as though ML and MB can't figure  that out!

They do things based on cost. They could have franchise tagged Zeitler or Whitworth but didn't.

They also draft guys to replace future free agents. Eifert to replace Gresham. Fisher and Ced to replace Smith and Whitworth...not because those guys are old...but to save money.

Andre Smith was like 29/30 when they booted him at RT replacing him with Ced and then Fisher. They could have just kept him as the starting RT and only had to worry about Whitworth.

Then, sign a FA Guard like Ronald Leary and bam we have a good offensive line.