(05-18-2015, 09:46 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think he would have been better at either position if he had the same pharmacist that he obtained as soon as he moved out west.  He added something like 30lbs of muscle in one offseason and became one of the best 3-4 ends in the league.  

I felt cheated.

This is a complete lie. Smith did not gain 30 lbs when he left the Bengals. In fact I don't think he got any bigger at all.

(05-19-2015, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is a complete lie.  Smith did not gain 30 lbs when he left the Bengals.  In fact I don't think he got any bigger at all.

I think this is just one of those things that someone said once and it keeps getting repeated.

Justin has always been a workout warrior and he's always been a big guy.

(05-19-2015, 05:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Then why do so many people love Michael Johnson? Who is essentially a poor man's Justin Smith as a 4-3 DE.
His best years as a Bengals aren't on Smith's level, and Smith did it with none of the talent (Geno and Dunlap) on the DL to help him out.
Yet people love him.

It's because fans expected a 10+ sack guy from Smith and that wasn't him. Fan expectations and poor coaching ruined his perception around Cincinnati.
If they had used him they way they used DEs later on (especially under Zimmer) and fans had more access to his Mizzou tape, fan perception of him would be much, much different.

Glad you're here :smile:

Smith is awesome, always was. What makes him even more awesome is that his rating is so high, I can always trade for Michael McCrary in NFL2K2

(05-18-2015, 05:35 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: While most football fans will always picture him as a 49er, former Bengal Justin Smith decided to hang up his cleats today.

Good player, enjoyed watching him here and in San Fran.

(05-19-2015, 01:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

Rep

"I think that's unfortunate. MJ has averaged 5.3 sacks as a Bengal and Dunlap has averaged 7.1, yet those guys are loved by the fans. I think guys like Wilkinson and Justin Smith were doomed by their draft status. Both were very good players, but they couldn't match the (perhaps unreasonable) expectations of the fan base. Fwiw, Justin is 2nd on the Bengals all-time sack list. If he'd spent his entire career with the Bengals, he'd be 1st with 87 sacks. Eddie Edwards would be 2nd with 47.5."

True. And not just the fan expectations. The team values everything by where someone is drafted. The key is what are they doing on the field, and what do you do with that. He was worth the money. You have to know when it's time to pay. That was a mistake and letting Boomer go to MNF was a mistake. It's not about value it's about performance.

He was always a favorite of mine. A blue-collar throwback with a high motor. He never took plays off or gave up pursuit.

Also loved that he drove his old beat up pickup from college to work everyday while he was here because it still ran and he didn't see the need to replace it.

In a league filled to the brim with "look at me" guys, he was one of the few who let his play do the talking.

I always had some bitterness with Smith because we passed on Richard Seymour to take him. He was a solid player here, but he wasn't worth matching the contract that the 49ers gave him.

A lot of guys nailed it on the head - when you are drafted #4 overall, you need to be a Pro-Bowl guy to satisfy the fans, especially back when the contracts weren't capped like they are now.

Perhaps an assistant D-Line coaching job awaits him?

It's a shame our fanbase didn't appreciate you.

Enjoy retirement King of beers

(05-18-2015, 09:38 PM)treee Wrote: I always liked Justin Smith. I thought he would have been better as a pass rushing DT in our system, though.

Hell, if we'd have had some DTs that could get into the backfield, then Smith would have been great here. He constantly beat his man, only to have the QB step up into the pocket. He would have loved Geno.

(05-20-2015, 01:53 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Perhaps an assistant D-Line coaching job awaits him?

We have an opening!

(05-20-2015, 09:48 AM)Junglejuice Wrote: It's a shame our fanbase didn't appreciate you.

Enjoy retirement King of beers

It seems like our fan base doesn't appreciate a lot of the best players that have come through Cincy. Only a small handful of players are universally loved.

Pretty much everybody from the Super Bowl teams and that's about it. Carson Palmer still gets a lot of love. Maybe throw AJ, Whit and Willie in there.

But players like Justin, Chad, Dillon, Pickens, Housh, Shayne Graham, Rudi, Brian Simmons and many others just aren't appreciated like they should be.

They all had great careers for us.

(05-20-2015, 10:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It seems like our fan base doesn't appreciate a lot of the best players that have come through Cincy. Only a small handful of players are universally loved.

Pretty much everybody from the Super Bowl teams and that's about it. Carson Palmer still gets a lot of love. Maybe throw AJ, Whit and Willie in there.

But players like Justin, Chad, Dillon, Pickens, Housh, Shayne Graham, Rudi, Brian Simmons and many others just aren't appreciated like they should be.

They all had great careers for us.

I think people fully appreciate Chad's football career but grew very tired of his act.
Pickens and Dillon were mega-douche bags. So it isn't a surprise the fans don't exactly care for them.

Shayne is a kicker who missed what was at the time the biggest FG in franchise history.

Simmons should get way more love. Housh maybe. Rudi...kind of a product of that ridiculous OL

(05-20-2015, 11:02 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I think people fully appreciate Chad's football career but grew very tired of his act.
Pickens and Dillon were mega-douche bags. So it isn't a surprise the fans don't exactly care for them.

Shayne is a kicker who missed what was at the time the biggest FG in franchise history.

Simmons should get way more love. Housh maybe. Rudi...kind of a product of that ridiculous OL

Oh I'm aware of the reasons people usually give for not liking these guys, but still think it just shows that our fan base is a little finicky at times (some people bash Joey Votto for Pete's sake).

Ultimately, Chad was the MVP of that run from 2003-2009 where the team became competitive again. He made 6 pro-bowls and led the conference in receiving 4 times during that span, so maybe people should just let go of the 1-2 years where things went south, yeah?

Pickens and Dillon were phenomenal talents, and if we're all honest, they probably had good reasons to complain.

Shayne is the Bengals all-time leader in FG%. He missed some kicks down the stretch in '06 because St.Louis suddenly lost his accuracy. Not really Shayne's fault. It messed with his head. He missed 2 kicks in the Jets playoff game, but honestly we probably weren't going to win that game even with those kicks. I don't think his stellar career should be marred by a fluke game and a long snapper who lost the strike zone.

At least we agree on Simmons and Housh. As for Rudi, he was good for 1400 yards and 12 TD's for a few years. Sure, the o-line was good, but should that really be held against him? Not every back could've dropped that kind of production behind that line. We had Whit, Levi, Bobbie and Willie in 2008 and our starting backs averaged 2.6 and 3.5 ypc.

Well I can just say from personal experience, Pickens and Dillon could have reasons to complain about Brown and co, but they were absolute assholes the few times I had the displeasure of meeting them.

Held against him, not so much. Just a frame of reference because it does get held against Emmit at times when the GOAT RB discussion pops up.
Levi was hurt, Willie was on his last leg and we had gutcheck at C.
Once Braham went down it got bad in a hurry.

I was mistaken about Willie. He was with the Ravens in '08.

Still, Rudi put up 1309 yards and 12 TDs in 2006 when Levi missed 11 starts and Ghiaciuc started 13 games at center after Braham went down. So maybe it wasn't all the o-line?

Either way, Rudi is just one of many players who doesn't get his due. I've met a lot of Bengals through the years, and a surprising amount of them aren't exactly friendly off the field, but I still appreciate what they contributed on the field.

(05-19-2015, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is a complete lie.  Smith did not gain 30 lbs when he left the Bengals.  In fact I don't think he got any bigger at all.

So, the fact that you don't think he got any bigger makes it fact? They didn't list his weight differently, but he absolutely DID get significantly larger the season he showed up in SF. NOT a lie.

(05-19-2015, 03:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Justin was listed at 285 on the 49ers official site, and that's pretty close to what he weighed here.

The program didn't necessarily reflect the true weight. He looked all of 295-300 and he came to the Bengals at 265lbs.

He didn't get bigger as a Bengal. Cue the moronic "the Bengals didn't have a good training table". He not only got bigger, but he was insanely strong. And playing 3-4 DE is a very different animal compared to 4-3. He made that defense work. You can stick you head in the sand and pretend your at the beach all you want, but if you don't think he had some illegal help you are fooling yourself.

(05-21-2015, 02:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was mistaken about Willie. He was with the Ravens in '08.

Still, Rudi put up 1309 yards and 12 TDs in 2006 when Levi missed 11 starts and Ghiaciuc started 13 games at center after Braham went down. So maybe it wasn't all the o-line?

Either way, Rudi is just one of many players who doesn't get his due. I've met a lot of Bengals through the years, and a surprising amount of them aren't exactly friendly off the field, but I still appreciate what they contributed on the field.

Rudi was one of my favorite players on the team. He was just a bowling ball out there. I know he played behind some great OLs, but he still had good vision. I just know that people really turned on him during the 07 season. I figured that his rough year was in due part to the sucky OL and being worn down from carrying the ball over 1,000 times in 3 years.