(10-04-2017, 05:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, if you would have said 3-1 I doubt we'd be having such a robust discussion.  A record of 4-0 would tie us with the Chiefs for the best record in the NFL right now and from what I've seen, we hain't in their league and we aren't automatically in the league of the 20 or so teams we'd leapfrog record-wise.

So it's wishful thinking to think that with just a better offense:
* we still wouldn't beat the Ravens, who were helped by 5 TOs by the offense and in 2 of their games couldn't even manage to score 10 points and one of their wins came against the team that's 1-19 in the ir last 20 games (or whatever it is)?
* we still wouldn't beat the Texans even though they only manage to score 13 points against us and a TD would have beaten them?
* we still wouldn't beat the Packers even though they had to take us to OT to beat us and a single FG in the 2nd half would've been enough to beat them?

I'm astounded that people were blaming our 3 losses on the offense and then I say that with our offense looking the way it has under Lazor, those losses would be wins and all of a sudden I'm a homer making delusional, outlandish statements. I mean, really?

(10-04-2017, 05:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That was a pleasant surprise.  If you add the facts that we melted down in the second half against GB and then ran up the score against the punchless Browns things get less surprising.

I think we knew that the offense was playing beneath itself in games 1 and 2 and clearly things have gotten better (hard NOT to get better, though).  Still, 55 points is great but all we have to show for it is a single win over a team that is barely NFL-caliber.  That win over the Browns reminds me of that season where we got all pumped that Hill "got his mojo back" every time we were playing a god awful team.

Anyways, positive signs but saying we should have the best record in the NFL right now is.....well, it's just beyond wishful thinking.

And here I thought I was jaded. 

We didn't run up the score on the Browns. Heck it was the opposite. Marv went into his typical prevent offense in the 2nd half. I'd argue the same of the Packers game. We racked up a 21-7 lead then started handing off like crazy. I don't think anyone looked at the offense after 2 weeks of record setting failure, and said to themselves "oh these guys are just playing beneath themselves" or however you want to put it.

It wasn't just a catastrophe on the scoreboard, it was a wreck on the field. Sure, nobody thought we were going to average 4.5 ppg for the entire season, but it was shaping up to possibly give our 2000 offense a run for the money. It's easy to say "oh, it was just the Browns" now, but here's a sampling from the Brown's prediction thread:

Quote:bengals67
Rookie QB has a coming out party. Bengals offense scores some point in first half but fails to make half time adjustments and are shut down in second half.

Quote:bengals73
I predict : 

Quote:Gdale_Bengal
Bengals play down to the competition and lose to the damn browns. 27-10

Quote:BengalHawk62

browns-  13
bengals- 6

ugly, ugly, ugly.  bad football.  and I don't plan on watching a minute of it.

Quote:Awful Llama

Browns 17
Bengals 12 

Quote:Jakeypoo
Browns 17 

Bengals 9
Bengals Defense plays well enough to win but the offense continues it's struggles.

Quote:yellowxdiscipline
This team is a disaster, we go 0-4, and Marvin gets fired after it.


Browns 28
Bengals 13

The Offense was epicly bad in those first two games no doubt.

Not far fetched at all to think if we had Lazor at OC would of turned atleast 2 of those games into wins.

3 is not far fetched either as Philhos said, if we weren't turning the ball over all the damn time against the Ravens
they wouldn't of scored 20, that is for damn sure. Like Shake said, we didn't run up the score against the Browns
either, we actually took our foot off the gas once again. Hope Lazor gains more control of the Offense and does
try and run the score up some as the season goes on.

If we can score some points on the Bills this Sunday it will be telling. That Defense is good.

And sure, the Browns are winless but they played the Steelers tough, a lot tougher than they played us.

WOW! We were able to beat the worst team in the league so OBVIOUSLY that means we're going to go to the Super Bowl!  Which is kind of like saying, WOW! I got my car with 4 flat tires to roll down a steep hill with the entire offensive line pushing! Obviously it's ready for the Indy 500!
Unless we can beat up on the Bills I'm not feeling the same optimism, but stranger things have happened. 

I'm not sure 4-0 isn't a bit of a stretch, I think 3-1 could have been. 2-2 is very, very, good chances. Like Elem 08 and others have said this team is always a day late and a dollar short of making needed moves though.

People keep saying M. Lewis made the wrong OC choice and I'm not so sure that's totally correct ? I'd guess M. Brown had a hand in that and I'm not taking up for Marvin, he needed gone 6 or 7 years ago.

I like were Lazor has us headed no doubt and I think more wins are surely coming than were with the Zmeister ! But playoffs, PLAYOFFS ??

Fellas I'm gonna and say once again we're not making the playoffs with this OL and OL coach !

(10-04-2017, 01:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ben and Flacco have taken many lumps for their QB play, particularly Ben on the road.  Dalton also put two god-awful games onto tape this season, so let's scale back this narrative just a bit.  If we trounce the Bills I'll say we're back on the path, but I can see why people aren't ready to declare Dalton blameless in what has been a very disappointing season thus far.

My only narrative is that Dalton played a great game against the Browns, but fans on this board are doing everything they can to take away from it. Every QB has played well against Cleveland this year, but Dalton outplayed them all. However, for Dalton it was "just the Browns". Who cares? He played well, we won, lets focus on next week. Why try to tear down your own QBs performance?

Plus, I think Dalton will be fine the rest of the year. His career says so. Yes, he played poorly to start the season and deserves some of the blame for the team being 1-3. No argument here. I'm just tired of seeing our good QB get roasted by his own fans all the time.

(10-04-2017, 11:50 AM)PhilHos Wrote: It bothers me to think about it, but it's true, we should be 4-0 right now. Clearly, Zampese was the wrong choice as OC (which is like sayiing poison is the wrong choice for lunch).

Based on how Lazor's called the offense, I think it's safe to say, we win the first 2 games of the year and probably do so easily.

You might be saying, "But he was the OC for Green Bay and we lost that game." Which is true. HOwever, had we opened the season with the offense playing like it did against Cleveland and the first half of GB, I think we would have come into GB full of confidence and would have built up a bigger lead in the first half. And we would not have succumbed so badly to GB's halftime adjustments. And let's not forget GB was dealing with a lot of injuries that a more confident team would've taken greater advantage of.

Even if you disagree with me about GB, we should still be sitting at least at 3-1. I know it's unlikely and, frankly, I'd rather things happen that guarantee a new HC, but it is becoming clear to me that we could very well be a playoff team this year. Though, to be completely honest, even if we do make the playoffs, we'll be one-and-done again this year, but that'll probably be enough to get Brown to want to bring back Lewis.

With our luck, we're going to end up 2 games short of making the playoffs, but we'll have played well enough that Brown will offer Lewis a contract extension anyway which he'll accept.

100% of the blame for the 1st 3 losses cannot be solely laid at Zampese's feet. I would say it's 30/70 on Andy Dalton.

The plays were there to be made and win each one of those games. The Special teams played fine and the Defense played great. In each of those 3 losses the QB missed wide open throws for touchdowns or that would have put the Bengals within field goal range. Regardless of a crappy game plan... Andy's position is the most important and he was bad when it mattered the first 4 quarters of the season, and then 2 touchdowns against the Packers... then back to missing throws and miss reading who was open in the 2nd half of that game allowed Aaron Rodgers to show up in the 2nd half and make plays when it mattered.

I hope that the success against the Browns has given Andy his confidence back and he feels emboldened to go play his best and make the throws he has the talent to make! Just because the first 2 and a half games stunk for Andy, doesn't mean that the next 12 have to. These sorts of things can toughen a guy up, too. I predict Andy gets on the right track.

(10-04-2017, 05:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So it's wishful thinking to think that with just a better offense:
* we still wouldn't beat the Ravens, who were helped by 5 TOs by the offense and in 2 of their games couldn't even manage to score 10 points and one of their wins came against the team that's 1-19 in the ir last 20 games (or whatever it is)?
* we still wouldn't beat the Texans even though they only manage to score 13 points against us and a TD would have beaten them?
* we still wouldn't beat the Packers even though they had to take us to OT to beat us and a single FG in the 2nd half would've been enough to beat them?

I'm astounded that people were blaming our 3 losses on the offense and then I say that with our offense looking the way it has under Lazor, those losses would be wins and all of a sudden I'm a homer making delusional, outlandish statements. I mean, really?

Saying we should be 4-0 when we've legitimately earned a 1-3 record is the definition if wishful thinking.  Yes.  

I don't think you should be institutionalized, but you are saying a team that played like a 32nd ranked team for half the young season should have the best record in the NFL.  

Ok. I'm not going all in on this 'could be' 4-0 but let's look at some real facts. The Ravens have been the Bengals ***** the last 3 years or so. The Texans were bad and played bad. The Bengals have had the Packers number for over a decade now, before this year. 

Take any Bengals offense from the last 4 seasons and go into the opener NOT turning the ball over 5 times and it's easy to see how there could have been a different outcome. Same thing with the Texans, except they seem to somehow have the Bengals number for the most part. 

It's not unreasonable to think that, with a Bengals offense of the last 4 years, every game could/should have been won. 

Now that the facts are out of the way....the fact of the matter is, the Bengals chose poorly and left Z in as OC and now they're reaping the "rewards" of that decision and a 1-3 start when it didn't need to be this way.

(10-04-2017, 06:50 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: My only narrative is that Dalton played a great game against the Browns, but fans on this board are doing everything they can to take away from it. Every QB has played well against Cleveland this year, but Dalton outplayed them all. However, for Dalton it was "just the Browns". Who cares? He played well, we won, lets focus on next week. Why try to tear down your own QBs performance?

Plus, I think Dalton will be fine the rest of the year. His career says so. Yes, he played poorly to start the season and deserves some of the blame for the team being 1-3. No argument here. I'm just tired of seeing our good QB get roasted by his own fans all the time.

Nice post Muskies. When he plays great it is always cause it was a terrible team.

The Browns are still an NFL team and like you said Dalton played them better than any other NFL QB this year so far.

Dalton haters out in full force in this thread. It is amazing how much better he has played under Lazor though with this
terrible O-line play. If anything people should be giving him a little more credit, not blaming him like P-dub here is for
every damn thing.

(10-04-2017, 07:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ok. I'm not going all in on this 'could be' 4-0 but let's look at some real facts. The Ravens have been the Bengals ***** the last 3 years or so. The Texans were bad and played bad. The Bengals have had the Packers number for over a decade now, before this year. 

Take any Bengals offense from the last 4 seasons and go into the opener NOT turning the ball over 5 times and it's easy to see how there could have been a different outcome. Same thing with the Texans, except they seem to somehow have the Bengals number for the most part. 

It's not unreasonable to think that, with a Bengals offense of the last 4 years, every game could/should have been won. 

Now that the facts are out of the way....the fact of the matter is, the Bengals chose poorly and left Z in as OC and now they're reaping the "rewards" of that decision and a 1-3 start when it didn't need to be this way.

Agree with you for the most part and the FO should of hired Lazor in the first place and everyone can see that now.

(10-04-2017, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course you mean Alexander who is definately one of if not the biggest problems around here.

Doubt they were happy to see Whit and Zeitler go, but Whit was getting up there in terms of age and Zeitler
was overpaid by the Stains. Should of atleast kept Whitworth though and this seems pretty evident about right
now watching our young guys and then seeing what Whit is doing as a Ram.

But i definately understand Philhos sentiment. If we would of had Lazor the OC from the get go this season we
would be much better off than we are right now. Big time difference from the first two games Offensively and
having a decent Offense that can score points gives our Defense that added edge so they can rush the passer.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, I did mean Alexander. I kept drawing a blank trying to think of his freakin' name.

Our young guys are in their 3rd year and will be going into the final year of their rookie deals next year. Pretty much we have to draft more OTs in the 2018 draft.

For God's sake we've got Andre playing a lot of LT and he was always much more suited for the right side. That's how bad our OL draft has been of late.

As for Whit and Zietler's departure, the team really made no effort to keep them. They could have signed Zietler to an extension the year before and offered Zietler half of DeCastro got that same year. So the front office was saying goodbye right then.

(10-04-2017, 05:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: And here I thought I was jaded. 

We didn't run up the score on the Browns. Heck it was the opposite. Marv went into his typical prevent offense in the 2nd half. I'd argue the same of the Packers game. We racked up a 21-7 lead then started handing off like crazy. I don't think anyone looked at the offense after 2 weeks of record setting failure, and said to themselves "oh these guys are just playing beneath themselves" or however you want to put it.

It wasn't just a catastrophe on the scoreboard, it was a wreck on the field. Sure, nobody thought we were going to average 4.5 ppg for the entire season, but it was shaping up to possibly give our 2000 offense a run for the money. It's easy to say "oh, it was just the Browns" now, but here's a sampling from the Brown's prediction thread:

One thing that might get forgotten about the GB game is that the of those 21 first half points 7 of them were from the defense.

And I agree, Marv dialed up the prevent offense and handcuffed Lazor's play calling. He did that to Zampese all the time last year.

Silly thread is silly. We are what our record says we are. Every team in the league could play these what if scenarios. 

(10-04-2017, 09:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Silly thread is silly. We are what our record says we are. Every team in the league could play these what if scenarios. 

But this is what people do when their team is 1-3, has it's only win against the worst team in the league and the team's owner is named Mike Brown. Welcome to the 1990s all over again.

(10-04-2017, 09:29 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh, yes, yes, yes, I did mean Alexander. I kept drawing a blank trying to think of his freakin' name.

Our young guys are in their 3rd year and will be going into the final year of their rookie deals next year. Pretty much we have to draft more OTs in the 2018 draft.

For God's sake we've got Andre playing a lot of LT and he was always much more suited for the right side. That's how bad our OL draft has been of late.

As for Whit and Zietler's departure, the team really made no effort to keep them. They could have signed Zietler to an extension the year before and offered Zietler half of DeCastro got that same year. So the front office was saying goodbye right then.

Cannot disagree. As much as i dog on Zeitler's run blocking, specificially pulling he is an exceptional pass blocker
and worked his ass off. Should of got a much better offer from us, we should of retained Whit for the same he got
from the Rams cause we could be one of the best teams in the league right now if we did.

Just have to hope the young guys improve and we replace PA, Marv, Bodine and Og in the Offseason regardless of
our record at the end of the year. Have a feeling we will be better than lots of us think and i have the Bills winning
Sunday cause of our O-line.

(10-04-2017, 09:46 PM)BengalChris Wrote: But this is what people do when their team is 1-3, has it's only win against the worst team in the league and the team's owner is named Mike Brown. Welcome to the 1990s all over again.

Brutal truth.   Lol, WE SHOULD BE 4-0!

Based on what?

(Crickets) 

(10-04-2017, 03:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We beat a team that is 1-19 over their past 20 games and you suddenly think Lazor has developed some unbeatable offense.

The offense was mediocre against the Packers. Good in the 1st half. Terrible in the 2nd half and not good enough to win.

The big issues we have are: 1) Our offensive line is terrible.
2) Our running game is terrible

Lazor is limited in what he can do to fix either of those issues.

The offense really did do enough to win. The Defense couldn’t make a stop when they needed to.

I get what you’re saying; the offense sputtered in the second half. This is certainly true, but the defense did so more, if you ask me. And of course special teams played a role, too.

I dont think the offense is that good we just played a bad team on Sunday and Dalton did what Dalton does. Honestly Zampese is getting a bad rep here because of the offensive struggles but how much can really be blamed on him. Whitworth, Zeitler, and Jones are all gone . Eifert has been injured and Green missed crucial time last season. In all honesty I am not sure if Bill Walsh could make this offense tick with what has been lost.

(10-04-2017, 06:50 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: My only narrative is that Dalton played a great game against the Browns, but fans on this board are doing everything they can to take away from it. Every QB has played well against Cleveland this year, but Dalton outplayed them all. However, for Dalton it was "just the Browns". Who cares? He played well, we won, lets focus on next week. Why try to tear down your own QBs performance?

Plus, I think Dalton will be fine the rest of the year. His career says so. Yes, he played poorly to start the season and deserves some of the blame for the team being 1-3. No argument here. I'm just tired of seeing our good QB get roasted by his own fans all the time.

I think those who are focusing so much on the Browns are missing the point. The turnaround under Lazor was instantaneous and dramatic. The Packers are a decent defense. We dropped 17 on the road. Not bad, especially after scoring 9 in the first 2 games. The Browns are 16th in yards allowed. We put up 350 on them (most of all their opponents). The point total was also the highest they've allowed. Plus it was in Cleveland. Their only other home game was a 3 point loss to the Steelers, where the Steelers only scored 18.

This doesn't mean we're going to all deh sooperbowlz! But it should count for something more than "meh". I'm not happy with the o-line or run game (which is also o-line related), but it's a very encouraging start for Lazor. 

Lets not get carried away we beat the Browns last week, and now we should be 4-0. People don't forget Marvin is still the head coach and that is a big issue.