(10-06-2017, 08:31 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Coaching isn't some magic cure all. There's no fairy dust to sprinkle on them.
Ogbuehi was never going to be good. He just wasn't. He wasn't actually good at TAMU. 
Fisher was always a project. They screwed up jerking him around between LT, RT, TE and FB. 
Bodine was never going to be more than what he is. 

MLJ was always talented though. That's the difference. Round is largely irrelevant. The NFL clearly has issues with identifying talent. They always have. It's a nepotism driven league so you don't actually get the best of the best. With a few exceptions. Watch MLJ in college. It's all there. Urban might have helped refine it and hone it, but the talent was there. 
what talent was there for Ogbuehi? Bodine? 

They just haven't drafted good football players on that side of the ball. 

Tell that to Belicheck and Scarnechia.

Og is extremely athletic, one of the most athletic Tackles in college and now in the NFL, he just has poor technique and
just doesn't have the want in him. If he never wants to be great, he is hopeless. Bodine was strong in the weight room
and i guess that is all PA thought matters in a Center.

Fisher has talent and i agree, the coaches screwed him up just like they didn't coach up Og or Bodine.

I also agree that MLJ had talent in college but no it wasn't all there, he was raw on his routes just like Core was but
MLJ was much better at going up for the ball. Malone as i said earlier needs to be in this conversation, cause he goes
up for the ball similar to MLJ and is just as fast.

Lafell needs to play better period if he wants to keep that #2 spot. Problem is, he isn't going to get any faster.

I think we get in situations where QBs seem to fall in love with one or two receivers and just can't seem to want to get the ball to other receivers for whatever reasons and Andy falls into this category with AJ. That makes it tough for young guys to really break out. 
I would like to see Core and Malone out there hauling in 50 yard passes all day. Who wouldn't?  But unless something happens to the guys who Andy feels comfortable throwing to the others are just going to watch. 
Something I'm encouraged by is seeing Kroft out there making tough catches. We didn't see much of it last year when he was pretty banged up, but suddenly he's back out there making plays instead of watching Mr Fragility himself.  

(10-06-2017, 08:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Tell that to Belicheck and Scarnechia.

Og is extremely athletic, one of the most athletic Tackles in college and now in the NFL, he just has poor technique and
just doesn't have the want in him. If he never wants to be great, he is hopeless. Bodine was strong in the weight room
and i guess that is all PA thought matters in a Center.

Fisher has talent and i agree, the coaches screwed him up just like they didn't coach up Og or Bodine.

I also agree that MLJ had talent in college but no it wasn't all there, he was raw on his routes just like Core was but
MLJ was much better at going up for the ball. Malone as i said earlier needs to be in this conversation, cause he goes
up for the ball similar to MLJ and is just as fast.

Lafell needs to play better period if he wants to keep that #2 spot. Problem is, he isn't going to get any faster.

1. No. Because they would laugh at it. You tell them that coaching is a magic cure all. See what happens.

2. Athleticism on the OL is wildly overrated. It's a nice bonus but it should be very far down the list of things you look for. That doesn't make him a good football player or a good collegiate football player. 

3. What is there to coach up? THEY ARE BAD FOOTBALL PLAYERS. That isn't a coaching issue. That's a scouting issue. Coaches don't take bad players and make them good. They just don't. If what you suggest is true, why the hell have the Patriots drafts been such shit lately? Where has Bill's magic sparkle fairy dust been? Why have they struggled to replace all the players they traded away? Having Tom Brady cures a lot of their problems. That's the magic fairy dust. Have the best QB in the history of the sport. Same with GB.

You can't expect NFL coaches to take a player with NO foundation and make them something in a reasonable time in the NFL. The player has to come into the league with something tangible. Ced didn't. He probably won't ever. 

(10-07-2017, 02:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 1. No. Because they would laugh at it. You tell them that coaching is a magic cure all. See what happens.

2. Athleticism on the OL is wildly overrated. It's a nice bonus but it should be very far down the list of things you look for. That doesn't make him a good football player or a good collegiate football player. 

3. What is there to coach up? THEY ARE BAD FOOTBALL PLAYERS. That isn't a coaching issue. That's a scouting issue. Coaches don't take bad players and make them good. They just don't. If what you suggest is true, why the hell have the Patriots drafts been such shit lately? Where has Bill's magic sparkle fairy dust been? Why have they struggled to replace all the players they traded away? Having Tom Brady cures a lot of their problems. That's the magic fairy dust. Have the best QB in the history of the sport. Same with GB.

You can't expect NFL coaches to take a player with NO foundation and make them something in a reasonable time in the NFL. The player has to come into the league with something tangible. Ced didn't. He probably won't ever. 

People think me and you are Alexander defenders which isn't true. 

Alexander isn't going to make Bodine grow longer arms which is his issue. PA can only try to make Ced meaner and more aggressive which is in the head not in his physical talent. Lol and I say it again PA is a good technique coach he just has a shitty eye for talent and as you've said more than once in Cincy the coaches do alot of the scouting.

(10-07-2017, 03:19 PM)Synric Wrote: People think me and you are Alexander defenders which isn't true. 

Alexander isn't going to make Bodine grow longer arms which is his issue. PA can only try to make Ced meaner and more aggressive which is in the head not in his physical talent. Lol and I say it again PA is a good technique coach he just has a shitty eye for talent and as you've said more than once in Cincy the coaches do alot of the scouting.

Yep. You don't expect a pitcher to learn to pitch in MLB or a PG to learn to shoot in the NBA. 
They have leagues and camps to learn this stuff growing up.
If the OL you're about to draft has bad hands, iffy footwork, lacks tenacity and overall strength....maybe it's time to look elsewhere. 
If you have to utter the phrase "natural position" it might be time to look elsewhere too

(10-07-2017, 08:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yep. You don't expect a pitcher to learn to pitch in MLB or a PG to learn to shoot in the NBA. 
They have leagues and camps to learn this stuff growing up.
If the OL you're about to draft has bad hands, iffy footwork, lacks tenacity and overall strength....maybe it's time to look elsewhere. 
If you have to utter the phrase "natural position" it might be time to look elsewhere too

Ogbuehi's natural position in sitting.... Sitting on the bench.

LaFell > Core...

(10-08-2017, 12:24 AM)ah5 Wrote: LaFell > Core...

That's not saying a whole lot. I think the small glimpses we have seen from Core have been impressive. He just isn't used frequently. LaFell has always had a hard time of breaking separation from corners, especially being pressed. New England let him go for a reason. I don't think he operates well going against the opposing team's second best corner. Maybe if was in the slot, he might find more success.

(10-06-2017, 04:11 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: They're a 1-3 team whose only win came against the Browns who were without their two best defensive players and the lost in OT to a Packers team playing without THEIR two best defensive players and patchwork OL. They aren't a talented team, especially on the offensive side of the ball. 

Core does not have better talent. Talent doesnt mean athleticism. 
He isn't physical. he plays small. 

Give them a shot when they prove they can do it. 
Core doesn't get separation outside of blown coverage on vert routes. 

There's so much more to it. 

There's so much wrong here, but we are just pissing in to the wind until he gets some snaps and proves otherwise, so for now, we will agree to completely disagree. 

(10-06-2017, 04:42 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Nate, I gotta disagree here man. If there's one bengals coach who is fairly well thought of both on the boards and around the NFL I would have to think Urban is one. The fact that Core hasn't played much makes me think that Core is an athletic guy with a lot of speed who doesn't have the qualities needed to be a game day many snap getting WR. Especially considering that this year a lot of young players and rookies are getting playing time, I would say that if Urban thought Core was worth playing as a 2nd or 3rd WR, we would have seen it. The fact that we have not tells me that Core is not there yet. I'm not saying Core can't develop into that in the future (I've consistently said Core will polish into form next year, so I didn't want him cut back when we were talking about how many receivers should be kept).

Remember that this is the same Urban who didn't have a problem playing 5th rounder Marvin Jones as basically the second receiver (either MJ's first or second year, I don't remember which). So, Core not getting snaps is a Core problem not a coach problem.

And (not that you're doing it), don't use the argument that this is Marv's decision over Urban, when Marv is ok playing Willis and Lawson over MJ. That would not be a consistent argument.

This is one fact regarding Cody Core.  I was told that one of the only hesitations of the Bengal's brass in drafting Ross was that it would limit Core's opportunities. They think that much of him.  So, with Ross out, I just don't understand why he isn't getting more opportunities.  He was WIDE OPEN for an easy TD and Dalton overshot him (in the Ravens game).  We make that play and the game could have ended very differently.  No WR was getting open that game and Core dusted his guy in a huge spot, but Dalton missed him by about a yard. 

If everyone that doesn't want Core to play also believes this team sucks ass, then why not try and develop the long term players instead of a stop gap like Lafell? 

Regardless, I am growing tired of asking the same questions.  We will see him soon enough.

(10-08-2017, 11:51 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one fact regarding Cody Core.  I was told that one of the only hesitations of the Bengal's brass in drafting Ross was that it would limit Core's opportunities. They think that much of him.  So, with Ross out, I just don't understand why he isn't getting more opportunities.  He was WIDE OPEN for an easy TD and Dalton overshot him (in the Ravens game).  We make that play and the game could have ended very differently.  No WR was getting open that game and Core dusted his guy in a huge spot, but Dalton missed him by about a yard. 

If everyone that doesn't want Core to play also believes this team sucks ass, then why not try and develop the long term players instead of a stop gap like Lafell? 

Regardless, I am growing tired of asking the same questions.  We will see him soon enough.

That was stated on these boards and i'd probably dismiss it just as soon as i heard it. Two things; if the Bengals brass was so high on him, he would be getting more opportunities, and, it's very doubtful that they would be reluctant to draft a WR in the 1st round due to a pick the previous year in round 6. I wouldn't believe that for even a second unless i saw it come out of the mouth of Marv or Duke. 

Core was taken with the 199th pick in the draft though. You know who else was taken 199...   

(10-08-2017, 12:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That was stated on these boards and i'd probably dismiss it just as soon as i heard it. Two things; if the Bengals brass was so high on him, he would be getting more opportunities, and, it's very doubtful that they would be reluctant to draft a WR in the 1st round due to a pick the previous year in round 6. I wouldn't believe that for even a second unless i saw it come out of the mouth of Marv or Duke. 

Core was taken with the 199th pick in the draft though. You know who else was taken 199...   

I agree 100%.  If the Bengals FO was high on Core, they wouldn't have resigned LaFell to a 2 year deal with a significant pay raise, then turned around and drafted Ross at #9 and Malone in the 4th, then only give him a handful of snaps each game on offense.  In fact, every single one of their actions from the off-season on strongly indicates that they don't think he will amount to much more than a punt team gunner.  There's no logical reason to think they're that high on Core.  If the Bengals have said anything to the effect that they are, it was probably just a pre draft smokescreen to mask their interest in the WR class.

(10-08-2017, 12:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That was stated on these boards and i'd probably dismiss it just as soon as i heard it. Two things; if the Bengals brass was so high on him, he would be getting more opportunities, and, it's very doubtful that they would be reluctant to draft a WR in the 1st round due to a pick the previous year in round 6. I wouldn't believe that for even a second unless i saw it come out of the mouth of Marv or Duke. 

Core was taken with the 199th pick in the draft though. You know who else was taken 199...   

It did come out of the mouth of a pretty high "ranking" individual in their organization.  And it was more of a product of what they realized they had after drafting him.  They liked him a great deal and thought he could be developed, but they love his desire and how he has taken to coaching so much that they feel even stronger about him now.