Well, I was fired up by the thread about people STILL slamming Dalton so I thought I would start a thread where everyone gets to list their "who is at fault" list in order.

This is just my opinion, feel free to share yours:

1.) Marvin Lewis- You have a roster most teams would die for. Even the offensive line has talent, but hardly anyone seems to improve under your tutelage. I hate your conservative nature. I hate how you don't play certain players because they are not "veterans". Your clock management has been a joke for 15 years (you have to try to suck that badly). I stood up for you for years for getting us to respectable, but you should have been gone years ago. No one listens to you and I won't miss you at all after this season.

2.) Paul Alexander- You have received what you wanted numerous times and done absolutely nothing with them. Your scheme is wimpy and you don't have an ounce of aggression on your line. Never have, honestly, despite having Pro Bowl talent for many years. Hope to God you go with Lewis.

3.) Russell Bodine- The weakest link on the offensive line. A pathetic center at best. Should have been replaced years ago.

4.) Trey Hopkins- Nice guy, hard worker, no talent. Not nimble enough for pass blocking, not strong enough to drive block at RG.

5.) Jeremy Hill- Waste of snaps. Please just go away. You are not a good receiver, you are not good at blitz pick up, and you don't play special teams. Would have much rather seen Tra Carson get a shot. Buh-bye.

6.) Pat Sims- A surprise to some, but if you watch Fat Pat, he may occupy a space, but he gets T-Rex arms when it is time to make a tackle. RBs can be RIGHT next to him, and he just pats them as they run by. Useless.

7.) Ced and Fish- Probably a bit low on the unpopular 10 list, but I only hold them accountable for missed assignments, of which they have plenty. I blame a lot on their coaching (or lack thereof). College tackles aren't NFL ready in most cases with more and more teams running the spread, so taking an athlete and trying to teach them is a big risk...especially when you have #2 running that position. Couldn't really separate the two. For me, both have been horrible. I hear they are scoring better. Great. Get ready for a PFF single digit score after facing Jax.

8.) Bill Lazor- Another surprise, for some at least. This is his offense. If he doesn't stand up to Marv and get the weapons out there and get more out of his rushing attack, then it is on him. The way they approach rushing the ball is just flawed on so many levels. Sorry, Bill, but that effort against pitt and Indy was downright awful. It is on you now.

9.) Andy Dalton- 100% NOT because of his play on the field. He needs to be tougher on his line. Case in point: When Boomer came back in for Blake due to injury, he told the oline that the next guy that allows a free rusher is going to get a football to their temple at 90 MPH. They suddenly learned how to block. Dalton may not have that kind of asshole in him, but the QB has to be the leader, and the leader needs to show his ass from time to time. I also believe Dalton has enough skins on the wall to go to Lazor and say "We need to run the GD TE screen on those downs and stop getting me killed!". He should be addressing the personnel and the play calling. He also needs to check to more rush plays with certain defensive formations. His guys simply don't get open quickly enough for those play designs (see personnel, sucks ass).

10.) The NFL and Officiating: The BS that happens to Burfict, the horrible calls game in and game out, the worthless morons that run this league....it isn't changing the outcome of their season, but it sure makes it hard to enjoy.

That's mine....what's yours?

Well, let's take a look at what happened with this team over the last couple of years that has really ****** us.

1) Re-signing Marvin Lewis after the 2013 playoff meltdown, and letting Zimmer walk to Minnesota.
2) Letting free agents like Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Andrew Whitworth, and Kevin Zeitler walk.
3) Drafting players in the first round that were hurt and could not contribute right away. In essence, letting talent walk and not adequately filling those needs with any sense of urgency.
4) Two huge whiffs at drafting offensive tackles.
5) Neglecting to address the offensive line this off-season, even after last year's mediocre-to-poor performance.
6) Hiring Ken Zampese after Hue Jackson left.
7) Holding onto Mike Nugent for too long.

Mike Brown, Marvin Lewis, and Paul Alexander. There are your guilty parties.

(11-03-2017, 10:05 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Well, let's take a look at what happened with this team over the last couple of years that has really ***** us.

1) Re-signing Marvin Lewis after the 2013 playoff meltdown, and letting Zimmer walk to Minnesota.  
2) Letting free agents like Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Andrew Whitworth, and Kevin Zeitler walk.
3) Drafting players in the first round that were hurt and could not contribute right away.  In essence, letting talent walk and not adequately filling those needs with any sense of urgency.
4) Two huge whiffs at drafting offensive tackles.  
5) Neglecting to address the offensive line this off-season, even after last year's mediocre-to-poor performance.
6) Hiring Ken Zampese after Hue Jackson left.
7) Holding onto Mike Nugent for too long.

Mike Brown, Marvin Lewis, and Paul Alexander.  There are your guilty parties.

There you have it.....

Pretty much the same except I would add Mike Brown as number one, PA to number two, and ML to number three. Also put AD as low as possible on this list and Lazor a little higher (offensive stats are awful)

1. Mike Brown.
2 PA.
3. ML.
4. Lazor

(11-03-2017, 10:05 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Well, let's take a look at what happened with this team over the last couple of years that has really ***** us.

1) Re-signing Marvin Lewis after the 2013 playoff meltdown, and letting Zimmer walk to Minnesota.  
2) Letting free agents like Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Andrew Whitworth, and Kevin Zeitler walk.
3) Drafting players in the first round that were hurt and could not contribute right away.  In essence, letting talent walk and not adequately filling those needs with any sense of urgency.
4) Two huge whiffs at drafting offensive tackles.  
5) Neglecting to address the offensive line this off-season, even after last year's mediocre-to-poor performance.
6) Hiring Ken Zampese after Hue Jackson left.
7) Holding onto Mike Nugent for too long.

Mike Brown, Marvin Lewis, and Paul Alexander.  There are your guilty parties.

Hahahah just as I was typing mine! 

I'm surprised that after so many years of evidence to the contrary that people still assume Marvin Lewis won't be back next year.

The three headed monster

1. Owner/GM: Mike Brown there's no way to define or sum up Mike in a few words but his formula for running a team is a total failure and he's to damn stubborn to admit it.

2. Head Coach: I've said it may times before and I'll always feel this way. I really like and in many ways admire Marvin Lewis for coming in here and helping put this team back on the map. And I'm sure he's a good guy.

But he is not the guy that can take this team to the next level ! (I'm not totally sure there is anyone that can with MB's meddling) We can only hope that someone is out there ?

3. Assistant HC/OL: It's so very crystal clear Paul Alexander isn't getting the job done it's mind boggling how he's still employed ?

Mike and Marvin. They just don't give a shit about winning. They may say they do. Which makes them not only incompetent boobs, it makes them liars too. And the fat assed moron pretending to coach the OLine is proof of that. In the offices of PBS, they are stealing from and lying to and laughing at their fan base. Actions speak louder than words. They just don't care.

Maybe Marvin once did, but he clearly stopped.

It's basically failure on every level. Mike is a moron. Of that, there is no doubt. But Marvin fails so badly on his end, it's hard to tell if a real coach, a guy with fire in his belly could succeed here, could win in spite of the moron in charge.

They went to the playoffs five years in a row and now they're content to sit back and rest on what they consider their laurels. It might take another twenty years to have another run like that. Really, failure is the company legacy, with a few aberrations tossed in by what almost has to be sheer luck.

Look at the Indy game. Andy gets sacked three out of five plays and Marvin has nothing to say about it. Clap, clap, clap. What more needs to be said?

(11-03-2017, 10:14 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Pretty much the same except I would add Mike Brown as number one, PA to number two, and ML to number three. Also put AD as low as possible on this list and Lazor a little higher (offensive stats are awful)

1. Mike Brown.
2 PA.
3. ML.
4. Lazor

1. MIKE BROWN
2. MIKE BROWN
3. MIKE BROWN
4. MIKE BROWN
5. MIKE BROWN
6. MIKE BROWN
7. MIKE BROWN
8. MIKE BROWN

I really don't understand why this is so hard to understand.  He is the ONLY one who can hire and fire without question or explanation.  He is responsible for keeping 'ANYONE' you place below him!!

I am in the vast minority that Mike Brown gave the team consensus strong options for the offensive line and they have not been developed. We were willing to give Alexander time because of how players like Whit developed but he hasn't done crap with this line.

I also think Mike Brown (I keep saying, it is really Marv, Katie, and Troy) credit for going with younger players in certain positions. We let go of Maualuga and Dansby and brought in Minter and drafted Evans. And they did have the succession plan in place, but Hue didn't leave Cleveland without a deal. Which I applaud the Browns for, but hate that he isn't the HC right now.

If Mike Brown is not at the top of your list, then your list sucks worse than our OL.

(11-03-2017, 01:38 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: 1. MIKE BROWN
2. MIKE BROWN
3. MIKE BROWN
4. MIKE BROWN
5. MIKE BROWN
6. MIKE BROWN
7. MIKE BROWN
8. MIKE BROWN

I really don't understand why this is so hard to understand.  He is the ONLY one who can hire and fire without question or explanation.  He is responsible for keeping 'ANYONE' you place below him!!

I put him at number one, not sure what's the beef here.

He also doesn't develop/draft players, gameplans, etc. His coaching staff has been by and large have been very disappointing. I give MB the most crap for setting a culture of being ok with mediocrity. 

Mike Brown
Andy Dalton
Marvin Lewis
Zampese
O Line

Mike Brown's business plan doesn't involve taking active measures to win football games. He is a business owner who doesn't do what it takes to succeed, but he inherited a business that lies within a foolproof oligopoly so it almost entirely doesn't matter.

Marvin Lewis, or any other member of the staff below Mike Brown who just coasts along and stays in line, is a mere symptom of the Mike Brown effect.

(11-03-2017, 10:14 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Pretty much the same except I would add Mike Brown as number one, PA to number two, and ML to number three. Also put AD as low as possible on this list and Lazor a little higher (offensive stats are awful)

1. Mike Brown.
2 PA.
3. ML.
4. Lazor

Hmm... I hate them all so much...

But if I had to choose an order (from worst to hardly any better), I'd say:

1. Marvin Lewis: the man is at the very least 75% responsible for all that is wrong on this team. And I'd say he's 90% responsible for the bullshit on gameday. Lazor already revealed that Marv is in charge of the depth chart so this musical chairs shit with the RBs is solely on him. Not to mention the playing-not-to-lose, conservative, chicken shit football he's so in love with. The mismanagement of timeouts. The flat out REFUSAL to recognize that the Oline sucks. He won't even attempt to make it better, he won't get in PA's face, tell him to shove it and make his own changes to the OL (Marv is the head coach, he has the power to do that)... He just sucks. Even when'd he's had phenomenal, complete rosters the team still found ways to blow it when it counts. He has no clue how to win when the pressure is on. Typical of Marvin Lewis. The man is a loser. He's an emotional f***ing cripple. His soul is dog shit. Every single f***ing thing about him is ugly. 

2. Paul Alexnder... Need I say more? Easily one of the worst OL coaches in the history of the game. He teaches his OL to be passive and weak, not tough and aggressive. They are taught not to engage, but give bull rushing DLineman space so they can make their move, generate momentum and knock our sorry ass OL around like rag dolls. He's had some strong, intelligent lineman over the years that occasionally made him look good but that's clearly not the case now. Not to mention his love for subpar lineman like Dennis Roland, Nate livings, Eric Ghiacuc, etc. Any self-respecting OL coach would acknowledge those guys were not getting it done, admit it, and look for their replacements ASAP... But nooooo, that would be admitting he was wrong    Instead he had to hype them up like it was only a matter of time before they all improved to be as good as Anthony Munoz. It's only a matter of time before PA starts telling us what a world beater Bodine will soon become  

3. Mike Brown: I despise the man as much as any Bengal fan but the thing he is most guilty of lately is keeping Marvin and PA on staff. Both of those putzes should have been gone years ago... As should have his miscreant buddy Pacman Jones. His blind loyalty to incompetent nitwits is arguably his biggest flaw in a long list of flaws.

4. Bill Lazor. He went into the season as an assistant and suddenly saw himself promoted to OC. I'll admit I wasn't a fan of what he did with Miami but he's done a decent job so far, considering he is handcuffed by Marvin to some unknown extent.

I am somewhat surprised at the hatred towards Mike Brown on here.

I am not trying to defend him, but is this roster not capable of winning? Was the 2015 not an awesome assembly of talent? Sure, they made a business decision on Whit and Zeitler, but was the line really performing with them last year? I blame more on schematic of predictability and not forcing defenses to alter their plan. We simply play right in to the hands of everyone.

(11-03-2017, 05:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am somewhat surprised at the hatred towards Mike Brown on here.

I am not trying to defend him, but is this roster not capable of winning?  Was the 2015 not an awesome assembly of talent?  Sure, they made a business decision on Whit and Zeitler, but was the line really performing with them last year?  I blame more on schematic of predictability and not forcing defenses to alter their plan.  We simply play right in to the hands of everyone.

True. We are very poorly coached and consistently out schemed. That has very little to do with Mike Brown (though he does need to grow a set and fire his underachieving employees).

Why is the front office not mentioned? In my opinion, they hamstrung this team by their unwillingness to resign valuable assets to the offensive line.

In my opinion, this team is so bad solely because of the offensive line. The problem with the offensive line can be traced back to the front office. Whether it was their unwillingness to resign quality players or find quality replacements.

(11-03-2017, 11:51 AM)McC Wrote: Mike and Marvin.  They just don't give a shit about winning.  They may say they do.  Which makes them not only incompetent boobs, it makes them liars too.  And the fat assed moron pretending to coach the OLine is proof of that.  In the offices of PBS, they are stealing from and lying to and laughing at their fan base.  Actions speak louder than words.  They just don't care.  

Maybe Marvin once did, but he clearly stopped.

It's basically failure on every level.  Mike is a moron.  Of that, there is no doubt.  But Marvin fails so badly on his end, it's hard to tell if a real coach, a guy with fire in his belly could succeed here, could win in spite of the moron in charge.

They went to the playoffs five years in a row and now they're content to sit back and rest on what they consider their laurels.  It might take another twenty years to have another run like that.  Really, failure is the company legacy, with a few aberrations tossed in by what almost has to be sheer luck.

Look at the Indy game.  Andy gets sacked three out of five plays and Marvin has nothing to say about it.  Clap, clap, clap.  What more needs to be said?

I think they care about winning, but both have become WAY to comfortable with the current process.