So Hopkins is pretty bad. Why not give Westerman a shot?

Maybe he'll show that he can develop into a starter?

I've been debating this in my mind for a bit, and I've come to a conclusion that frightens me: I truly think that if some of the members of this board were in control of the Bengals this offseason, we would be in a better position this year than we are now. I really do believe that, btw.

So, now I believe that whenever someone on the board comes up with an idea like this, the Bengals organization will usually have it pop up in there heads around 1-3 months later.

We will see then :)

(11-14-2017, 02:10 PM)thillan Wrote: I've been debating this in my mind for a bit, and I've come to a conclusion that frightens me: I truly think that if some of the members of this board were in control of the Bengals this offseason, we would be in a better position this year than we are now. I really do believe that, btw.

So, now I believe that whenever someone on the board comes up with an idea like this, the Bengals organization will usually have it pop up in there heads around 1-3 months later.

We will see then :)

Yep, I actually reached that conclusion last year. There are literally 20 members on this board I have more faith in than the gruesome twosome of Mike and Marv. 

This was my plan for last offseason:

When I say realistic, I'm taking into account how the Bengals do things. I'm not going to forecast them signing Bell and Berry in free agency.

1 ) We draft 2 starters in the draft. (Typically we don't draft any Day 1 starters so this is a big improvement.) I'll say we add Rueben Foster and a starting C that is an upgrade to Bodine.

2 ) We keep Zeitler and Whitworth and leave Kirkpatrick leave. The salary cap keeps rising and Whitworth will only be here 1 or 2 more years so it's doable. (Offensive line is Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Drafted C, Fisher.)

3 ) Maualuga is waived.

4 ) Jackson and Vigil become starters. Billings becomes a solid rotation player at DT. (Linebackers are Vigil, Foster, and Burfict.)

5 ) We add a guy in the 2nd Round with the pick obtained at #7 that can pass rush from the DE spot. He's not a starter Year 1, but a situational rusher.

6 ) Sign Stephon Gilmore or Prince Amakumara to be a starting CB. (Amakumara signed a 1 year $5.5 million deal with the Jaguars. We paid Kirkpatrick around $7.5 million...so it's doable.) I like Ross Cockrell from the Steelers also.

7 ) Trade McCarron for a 2nd and 4th Round pick.

8 ) Retain Lafell and Burkhead. Rely on Boyd and Core to continue development at WR. Let Burkhead, Hill, and Bernard compete for snaps. Ideally the offensive line is improved with a Center.

9 ) Draft a QB that you can develop somewhere in the 3rd to 5th Round.

10 ) Draft a kicker. Hold a competition in camp to see who can win the job.

11 ) Sign Nick Fairley. He has signed back to back 1 year deals...and has played well. Offer him a 2-3 year deal. We'd then pair Fairley with Atkins with Billings, Thompson, and Sims as the backups.

12 ) Bring in a veteran TE like Vernon Davis. I feel like our offense needs more experience at backup at that position.

13 ) Bring in a coverage safety like DJ Swearinger to compete with Williams at S. On some downs, move Williams down like a LB to add speed to the defense.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-My-realistic-best-case-scenario-for-improving-the-roster

We could have still drafted Mixon and Lawson too. In my scenario we would have had 2 2nd Round picks.

(11-14-2017, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was my plan for last offseason:

When I say realistic, I'm taking into account how the Bengals do things. I'm not going to forecast them signing Bell and Berry in free agency.

1 ) We draft 2 starters in the draft. (Typically we don't draft any Day 1 starters so this is a big improvement.) I'll say we add Rueben Foster and a starting C that is an upgrade to Bodine.

2 ) We keep Zeitler and Whitworth and leave Kirkpatrick leave. The salary cap keeps rising and Whitworth will only be here 1 or 2 more years so it's doable. (Offensive line is Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Drafted C, Fisher.)

3 ) Maualuga is waived.

4 ) Jackson and Vigil become starters. Billings becomes a solid rotation player at DT. (Linebackers are Vigil, Foster, and Burfict.)

5 ) We add a guy in the 2nd Round with the pick obtained at #7 that can pass rush from the DE spot. He's not a starter Year 1, but a situational rusher.

6 ) Sign Stephon Gilmore or Prince Amakumara to be a starting CB. (Amakumara signed a 1 year $5.5 million deal with the Jaguars. We paid Kirkpatrick around $7.5 million...so it's doable.) I like Ross Cockrell from the Steelers also.

7 ) Trade McCarron for a 2nd and 4th Round pick.

8 ) Retain Lafell and Burkhead. Rely on Boyd and Core to continue development at WR. Let Burkhead, Hill, and Bernard compete for snaps. Ideally the offensive line is improved with a Center.

9 ) Draft a QB that you can develop somewhere in the 3rd to 5th Round.

10 ) Draft a kicker. Hold a competition in camp to see who can win the job.

11 ) Sign Nick Fairley. He has signed back to back 1 year deals...and has played well. Offer him a 2-3 year deal. We'd then pair Fairley with Atkins with Billings, Thompson, and Sims as the backups.

12 ) Bring in a veteran TE like Vernon Davis. I feel like our offense needs more experience at backup at that position.

13 ) Bring in a coverage safety like DJ Swearinger to compete with Williams at S. On some downs, move Williams down like a LB to add speed to the defense.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-My-realistic-best-case-scenario-for-improving-the-roster

We could have still drafted Mixon and Lawson too. In my scenario we would have had 2 2nd Round picks.

Lol, that's WAY better than what we did. Vernon Davis has been great for the Redskins this year, and the re-signing on Dre SUCKS. He's the type of guy who makes 1 good (not great) play a game, but the rest is filled with poor to mediocre performance. 

Foster would have been OK, but I really thought we'd go after Malik Hooker. He was excellent for the Colts before his injury, they got a good one.

Some Centers in this years draft have turned out really well. Pat Elflein I believe is playing great for the Vikings.

(11-14-2017, 02:10 PM)thillan Wrote: I've been debating this in my mind for a bit, and I've come to a conclusion that frightens me: I truly think that if some of the members of this board were in control of the Bengals this offseason, we would be in a better position this year than we are now. I really do believe that, btw.

So, now I believe that whenever someone on the board comes up with an idea like this, the Bengals organization will usually have it pop up in there heads around 1-3 months later.

We will see then :)

It took you this long to realize that? Hell, most of us knew that for years! :andy:

(11-14-2017, 02:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So Hopkins is pretty bad. Why not give Westerman a shot?

Maybe he'll show that he can develop into a starter?

A little common sense here. Won't happen man, they might give him a touch of play time if Hopkins gets hurt again.

Westerman will play well and then once Hopkins is healthy will regain the RG spot.

(11-14-2017, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was my plan for last offseason:

When I say realistic, I'm taking into account how the Bengals do things. I'm not going to forecast them signing Bell and Berry in free agency.

1 ) We draft 2 starters in the draft. (Typically we don't draft any Day 1 starters so this is a big improvement.) I'll say we add Rueben Foster and a starting C that is an upgrade to Bodine.

2 ) We keep Zeitler and Whitworth and leave Kirkpatrick leave. The salary cap keeps rising and Whitworth will only be here 1 or 2 more years so it's doable. (Offensive line is Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Drafted C, Fisher.)

3 ) Maualuga is waived.

4 ) Jackson and Vigil become starters. Billings becomes a solid rotation player at DT. (Linebackers are Vigil, Foster, and Burfict.)

5 ) We add a guy in the 2nd Round with the pick obtained at #7 that can pass rush from the DE spot. He's not a starter Year 1, but a situational rusher.

6 ) Sign Stephon Gilmore or Prince Amakumara to be a starting CB. (Amakumara signed a 1 year $5.5 million deal with the Jaguars. We paid Kirkpatrick around $7.5 million...so it's doable.) I like Ross Cockrell from the Steelers also.

7 ) Trade McCarron for a 2nd and 4th Round pick.

8 ) Retain Lafell and Burkhead. Rely on Boyd and Core to continue development at WR. Let Burkhead, Hill, and Bernard compete for snaps. Ideally the offensive line is improved with a Center.

9 ) Draft a QB that you can develop somewhere in the 3rd to 5th Round.

10 ) Draft a kicker. Hold a competition in camp to see who can win the job.

11 ) Sign Nick Fairley. He has signed back to back 1 year deals...and has played well. Offer him a 2-3 year deal. We'd then pair Fairley with Atkins with Billings, Thompson, and Sims as the backups.

12 ) Bring in a veteran TE like Vernon Davis. I feel like our offense needs more experience at backup at that position.

13 ) Bring in a coverage safety like DJ Swearinger to compete with Williams at S. On some downs, move Williams down like a LB to add speed to the defense.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-My-realistic-best-case-scenario-for-improving-the-roster

We could have still drafted Mixon and Lawson too. In my scenario we would have had 2 2nd Round picks.

1- We could've. There were centers available, but not sure how good they would've been starting. There were some good options to rotate in the DL where we picked.
2- My thoughts were keep Whit, let Kirk walk. We most likely couldn't have kept Z.
3- 5 Doable
6- Could've been, but easier to see in hindsight.
7- I still advocate holding onto AJM if you're making a playoff run. If you're just rebuilding, then trade him. Apparently, we decided AFTER the season started that we were in a rebuilding mode.
8- Man, I still say letting Burkhead go was a huge **** up. No, he's not an elite playmaker... but he's a consistent football player who you can use all over the place.

Kind of indifferent on the rest. I don't think TE is a huge issue, I think we could roll with what we've got. 

Anyway, we did mostly the opposite of good moves. Which is what makes it frustrating to watch at times.

(11-14-2017, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was my plan for last offseason:

When I say realistic, I'm taking into account how the Bengals do things. I'm not going to forecast them signing Bell and Berry in free agency.

1 ) We draft 2 starters in the draft. (Typically we don't draft any Day 1 starters so this is a big improvement.) I'll say we add Rueben Foster and a starting C that is an upgrade to Bodine.

2 ) We keep Zeitler and Whitworth and leave Kirkpatrick leave. The salary cap keeps rising and Whitworth will only be here 1 or 2 more years so it's doable. (Offensive line is Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Drafted C, Fisher.)

3 ) Maualuga is waived.

4 ) Jackson and Vigil become starters. Billings becomes a solid rotation player at DT. (Linebackers are Vigil, Foster, and Burfict.)

5 ) We add a guy in the 2nd Round with the pick obtained at #7 that can pass rush from the DE spot. He's not a starter Year 1, but a situational rusher.

6 ) Sign Stephon Gilmore or Prince Amakumara to be a starting CB. (Amakumara signed a 1 year $5.5 million deal with the Jaguars. We paid Kirkpatrick around $7.5 million...so it's doable.) I like Ross Cockrell from the Steelers also.

7 ) Trade McCarron for a 2nd and 4th Round pick.

8 ) Retain Lafell and Burkhead. Rely on Boyd and Core to continue development at WR. Let Burkhead, Hill, and Bernard compete for snaps. Ideally the offensive line is improved with a Center.

9 ) Draft a QB that you can develop somewhere in the 3rd to 5th Round.

10 ) Draft a kicker. Hold a competition in camp to see who can win the job.

11 ) Sign Nick Fairley. He has signed back to back 1 year deals...and has played well. Offer him a 2-3 year deal. We'd then pair Fairley with Atkins with Billings, Thompson, and Sims as the backups.

12 ) Bring in a veteran TE like Vernon Davis. I feel like our offense needs more experience at backup at that position.

13 ) Bring in a coverage safety like DJ Swearinger to compete with Williams at S. On some downs, move Williams down like a LB to add speed to the defense.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-My-realistic-best-case-scenario-for-improving-the-roster

We could have still drafted Mixon and Lawson too. In my scenario we would have had 2 2nd Round picks.

(11-14-2017, 03:09 PM)Benton Wrote: 1- We could've. There were centers available, but not sure how good they would've been starting. There were some good options to rotate in the DL where we picked.
2- My thoughts were keep Whit, let Kirk walk. We most likely couldn't have kept Z.
3- 5 Doable
6- Could've been, but easier to see in hindsight.
7- I still advocate holding onto AJM if you're making a playoff run. If you're just rebuilding, then trade him. Apparently, we decided AFTER the season started that we were in a rebuilding mode.
8- Man, I still say letting Burkhead go was a huge **** up. No, he's not an elite playmaker... but he's a consistent football player who you can use all over the place.

Kind of indifferent on the rest. I don't think TE is a huge issue, I think we could roll with what we've got. 

Anyway, we did mostly the opposite of good moves. Which is what makes it frustrating to watch at times.

Here's what I want to know: does the coaching staff consider Bodine a capable starter? They have to, right? 'Cause I want to know why EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF THE BENGALS' FRONT OFFICE can see he's just not that good but they can't.

(11-14-2017, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was my plan for last offseason:

When I say realistic, I'm taking into account how the Bengals do things. I'm not going to forecast them signing Bell and Berry in free agency.

1 ) We draft 2 starters in the draft. (Typically we don't draft any Day 1 starters so this is a big improvement.) I'll say we add Rueben Foster and a starting C that is an upgrade to Bodine.

2 ) We keep Zeitler and Whitworth and leave Kirkpatrick leave. The salary cap keeps rising and Whitworth will only be here 1 or 2 more years so it's doable. (Offensive line is Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Drafted C, Fisher.)

3 ) Maualuga is waived.

4 ) Jackson and Vigil become starters. Billings becomes a solid rotation player at DT. (Linebackers are Vigil, Foster, and Burfict.)

5 ) We add a guy in the 2nd Round with the pick obtained at #7 that can pass rush from the DE spot. He's not a starter Year 1, but a situational rusher.

6 ) Sign Stephon Gilmore or Prince Amakumara to be a starting CB. (Amakumara signed a 1 year $5.5 million deal with the Jaguars. We paid Kirkpatrick around $7.5 million...so it's doable.) I like Ross Cockrell from the Steelers also.

7 ) Trade McCarron for a 2nd and 4th Round pick.

8 ) Retain Lafell and Burkhead. Rely on Boyd and Core to continue development at WR. Let Burkhead, Hill, and Bernard compete for snaps. Ideally the offensive line is improved with a Center.

9 ) Draft a QB that you can develop somewhere in the 3rd to 5th Round.

10 ) Draft a kicker. Hold a competition in camp to see who can win the job.

11 ) Sign Nick Fairley. He has signed back to back 1 year deals...and has played well. Offer him a 2-3 year deal. We'd then pair Fairley with Atkins with Billings, Thompson, and Sims as the backups.

12 ) Bring in a veteran TE like Vernon Davis. I feel like our offense needs more experience at backup at that position.

13 ) Bring in a coverage safety like DJ Swearinger to compete with Williams at S. On some downs, move Williams down like a LB to add speed to the defense.
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-My-realistic-best-case-scenario-for-improving-the-roster

We could have still drafted Mixon and Lawson too. In my scenario we would have had 2 2nd Round picks.

Was salary cap taken into account when coming up with this plan?
Vernon Davis signed for 3 years, $15 mill. $5 mill a year avg.
You say retain LaFell, so 2 years, $9 mill. $4.5 mill a year avg.
Assume you'd need at least the same $$ to retain Burkhead, 1 year, $3.15 mill.
Assume the same for Zeitler, at least on average salary. $12 mill a year.
Same with Whitworth. $11.25 mill a year.
Nick Fairley signed a 4 year, $28 mill deal with the Saints. Average $7 mill a year.
Sign Gilmore or Amukamara - $5.5 mill at minimum if you with what Amukamara signed.
DJ Swearinger signed for 3 years, $13.5 mill. Average $4.5 mill a year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$52.9 million a year from just these players

The team had an estimated $43.8 mill cap space heading into FA before reserving money for draft picks, a couple mill for injuries, and extension for Burfict.

What players would you have cut to make enough cap room? The only one I saw listed was Maualuga (who was hitting FA anyway so wouldn't have counted against the cap).

EDIT - You probably didn't think it would take that much $$ to get these players you listed, so at the time it probably did seem realistic.

Wanted us to at the very least extend Whit. That was the biggest screw up last year, letting him go.

We could of kept him and knew he might last a few more years. He is showing this was what we should of done now.

Wanted us to also draft a Center like Elflein or Roullier. Both of which looked pretty damn good last Sunday in Washington.

I may have been wrong on Ross who i wanted and still doesn't have a catch nine games into the season but i have to blame
this on Marv and the coaches. Even Urban who i liked before this year, but these WR's are getting no seperation and Lafell
and Boyd have regressed.

(11-14-2017, 03:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's what I want to know: does the coaching staff consider Bodine a capable starter? They have to, right? 'Cause I want to know why EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF THE BENGALS' FRONT OFFICE can see he's just not that good but they can't.

My personal opinion, I think a lot of people were OK with PA... up until he doubled down on Bodine last year.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/04/30/bengals-ol-coach-sick-bodine-witch-hunt/83758492/

Quote:Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander walked into Salzano’s barber shop on 4th St., looking for a relaxing haircut at a spot he’d frequented for years developing friendships with the three Italian barbers.

Before long, relaxation evaporated. Suddenly he found himself amidst the latest example of what he coined the “witch hunt” of current starting center Russell Bodine.
“It pissed me off,” he said. “They got three Italian barbers there all yelling at each other, they are all brothers and they are getting on me about Bodine. I finally had to tell one to eff off. Jeez, I can’t even get my haircut in peace.”

...

“You guys are asking about the Bodine witch hunt, right?” Alexander said. “Let me tell you about Bodine, all right? Let me tell you about him. He’s better than (Clint) Boling was after two years. He’s similar to what Zeitler was. Zeitler didn’t start out all that great. I was talking to (Andrew Whitworth) and talking about Rich Braham. He said, ‘Hey, don’t compare Bodine to Rich Braham.’ Rich Braham didn’t step on the field until his third year. This is a young player who is playing in his third year with a bunch of veterans and very good offensive linemen and he’s the last one right now because he’s the youngest. But I don’t care what anyone else says I think Bodine is a hell of a player. That’s where I’m at on that.”

Paul — from probably the last Bengals fan that thinks you're a decent coach — listen to the damn barbers. In this instance, they know more than you. Bodine is no Z, and he's not even a Boling. Whatever it is Paul sees in this guy, it doesn't translate onto the field.

(11-14-2017, 03:29 PM)Benton Wrote: My personal opinion, I think a lot of people were OK with PA... up until he doubled down on Bodine last year.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/04/30/bengals-ol-coach-sick-bodine-witch-hunt/83758492/


Paul — from probably the last Bengals fan that thinks you're a decent coach — listen to the damn barbers. In this instance, they know more than you. Bodine is no Z, and he's not even a Boling. Whatever it is Paul sees in this guy, it doesn't translate onto the field.

The dude is completely clueless.

When this guy is gone i will celebrate big time. Take Blodine with yah.

(11-14-2017, 03:29 PM)Benton Wrote: My personal opinion, I think a lot of people were OK with PA... up until he doubled down on Bodine last year.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/04/30/bengals-ol-coach-sick-bodine-witch-hunt/83758492/


Paul — from probably the last Bengals fan that thinks you're a decent coach — listen to the damn barbers. In this instance, they know more than you. Bodine is no Z, and he's not even a Boling. Whatever it is Paul sees in this guy, it doesn't translate onto the field.

Paul is as stubborn and delusional as Mike Brown. Perhaps that's why Mike keeps him around... Maybe like great minds, moronic minds think alike

Paul more or less said the same stuff about Nate livings, Eric Ghiacuc, Dennis Roland... He seems to have a soft spot for the OLineman that struggle the most. And that may be Paul's biggest flaw: stubbornly refusing to admit his guys suck. God forbid he be held accountable for rolling with shitty OLineman though 

(11-14-2017, 03:45 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Paul is as stubborn and delusional as Mike Brown. Perhaps that's why Mike keeps him around... Maybe like great minds, moronic minds think alike

Paul more or less said the same stuff about Nate livings, Eric Ghiacuc, Dennis Roland... He seems to have a soft spot for the OLineman that struggle the most. And that may be Paul's biggest flaw: stubbornly refusing to admit his guys suck. God forbid he be held accountable for rolling with shitty OLineman though 

All true, this is the exact opposite of what you want in a coach.

Stubbornly stupid without any accountability is quite dangerous.

I'd like to see them roll with this line just once..... CO(simply because we have no other left tackle) , Boling, TJ Johnson, Westerman, Smith. Run Mixon to the right...  

It's def worth giving him a try, what do we have to lose??

My only fear is its another mid round pick we whiffed on hence why he cant get a sniff of playing time....

(11-14-2017, 03:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's what I want to know: does the coaching staff consider Bodine a capable starter? They have to, right? 'Cause I want to know why EVERYONE OUTSIDE OF THE BENGALS' FRONT OFFICE can see he's just not that good but they can't.

Honestly...I think they are more concerned with profit than winning. They want to win...but only under the right conditions.

On Bodine, while he's on a rookie contract...he'll start. IF he demands more money as a free agent, he'll be allowed to walk.

When was the last time we had a quality Center?

(11-14-2017, 03:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Was salary cap taken into account when coming up with this plan?
Vernon Davis signed for 3 years, $15 mill. $5 mill a year avg.
You say retain LaFell, so 2 years, $9 mill. $4.5 mill a year avg.
Assume you'd need at least the same $$ to retain Burkhead, 1 year, $3.15 mill.
Assume the same for Zeitler, at least on average salary. $12 mill a year.
Same with Whitworth. $11.25 mill a year.
Nick Fairley signed a 4 year, $28 mill deal with the Saints. Average $7 mill a year.
Sign Gilmore or Amukamara - $5.5 mill at minimum if you with what Amukamara signed.
DJ Swearinger signed for 3 years, $13.5 mill. Average $4.5 mill a year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$52.9 million a year from just these players

The team had an estimated $43.8 mill cap space heading into FA before reserving money for draft picks, a couple mill for injuries, and extension for Burfict.

What players would you have cut to make enough cap room? The only one I saw listed was Maualuga (who was hitting FA anyway so wouldn't have counted against the cap).

EDIT - You probably didn't think it would take that much $$ to get these players you listed, so at the time it probably did seem realistic.

Maualuga, Jones, and MJ would have been cut.

Yeah, Fairley signed for more than I thought he would. As did Vernon Davis. But, even at those prices...if we waived some guys it a large portion was doable.

re: Burfict extension - I wouldn't have signed him to one. Let Foster be the star LB.

(11-14-2017, 03:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wanted us to at the very least extend Whit. That was the biggest screw up last year, letting him go.

We could of kept him and knew he might last a few more years. He is showing this was what we should of done now.

Wanted us to also draft a Center like Elflein or Roullier. Both of which looked pretty damn good last Sunday in Washington.

I may have been wrong on Ross who i wanted and still doesn't have a catch nine games into the season but i have to blame
this on Marv and the coaches. Even Urban who i liked before this year, but these WR's are getting no seperation and Lafell
and Boyd have regressed.

I wouldn't call Ross and Mixon bad picks. They were luxury picks. We could have probably made one or the other. Had we traded down in the 1st Round maybe we get Ross still and take a Center in the 2nd and then take Mixon with our 2nd 2nd Round pick?

Maybe Mixon falls to the 3rd Round? The tape of him hitting that girl would deter 90% of the league from drafting him. It somehow attracted the Bengals to probably take him a little higher.