(11-27-2017, 11:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: FWIW, PFF had Dre rated at 81.7 yesterday. Our 4th highest grade on the team. 

He seemed to give up quite up a few deep balls, which isnt like him.

(11-27-2017, 06:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We gave up 405 total yards, 21 first downs and 169 rush yards. To the Browns.

Last week, people were judging the offense based on what? The 190 yards, not the 20 points. Thing is, we all realize there's more to the offense than just points. They can't run. The pass blocking was abysmal for the first 8 weeks. We can talk in depth about the offense and ALL the stats that go along with it, but some get offended when we do the same with the defense.

The stats tell the story of what we've watched on the field. We've been solid in pass defense and pressure. Awful against the run (28th), awful on 3rd downs (28th in % and dead last in 3rd down conversions allowed) and awful in takeaways (27th).

These are stats that I feel are truly underrated by fans (not by coaches, who talk about the turnover battle and 3rd downs constantly). Takeaways in particular are huge. Consider that the #1 team in takeaways (Jacksonville) has 15 more than us. This has led to a whopping 6 defensive TDs (we have 2) plus 9 more possessions for their offense, often with good field position.

9 more possessions + 4 more TDs is a lot for 11 games.

Also consider that the bad performance against the run and on 3rd downs are both critical to Time of Possession, meaning even fewer possessions for the offense...especially combined with lack of takeaways. This is not me defending the offense. Our franchise-worst rushing performance has heavily played into that. But what goes for the offense also goes for the defense. They have to stop the run and get off the field on 3rd downs.

That and a few more turnovers would help us put more points on the board AND allow even less (they're good in that department).

they scored 13.... Dkp gave them the ball on the 1..  

(11-27-2017, 06:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The D has now given up 400+ yards 4 times in the last 6 games and 112 or more rushing yards in all 6. I would call that a bit of a trend.

this is what happens when your on the field for 40 minutes........

If you ask me, our biggest problem on defense is, and has been since they let Reggie Nelson walk, is the Safety play. Shawn Williams doesn't come close to filling Nelson's shoes when perfectly healthy, now that he's been in and out of the lineup all season long, the problems in coverage have magnified.

Time for the Bengals to go all-in on drafting a 10 year starter at Safety, this year.

(11-27-2017, 03:12 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: It seems as though they're having the opposite problem of what they used to have on D.  They now have good players on the d-line, but the secondary isn't looking great.  There were a couple of times where receivers were behind everyone but Kizer just missed the throw.  I'm wondering if Shaw and Fej are being worked in more to see if they can hack it as starters.

Shaw is beat every game.. wouldn't mind seeing fej.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

(11-27-2017, 02:46 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: ...the offense played well and ran the ball extremely well (evening out the TOP), yet our defense played like crap. Kinda blows a hole in the whole "offense is making the defense tired" narrative.

The defense has quietly been pretty rough looking for several weeks now. Let's hope they can get it together with the game of the season coming up.

It was funny being at the Browns/Bengals game.  The officiating was awful.  And it was awful in our favor....I will say that again:  It was awful in the BENGALS favor.  

I turned to my friend and said "This must be what it feels like to be a steeler fan (only smarter and much better looking)".

The Browns must be even lower on the NFL hate totem pole.  

We will not be getting a fair game from the officials.  There will be more black and gold in the stands than black and orange.  Someone on the Bengals will throw a tantrum of sorts when they start getting rolled on.  

I hate to say it, but as excited as I was when this game was announced before the season, I am dreading this game.  

(11-27-2017, 02:46 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: ...the offense played well and ran the ball extremely well (evening out the TOP), yet our defense played like crap. Kinda blows a hole in the whole "offense is making the defense tired" narrative.

The defense has quietly been pretty rough looking for several weeks now. Let's hope they can get it together with the game of the season coming up.

Oh, and about the defense...don't worry, I have the solution:  Put MJ back at RDE!  Oh, wait...

(11-27-2017, 04:54 AM)treee Wrote: We're going to have to start putting 8 guys in the box. You can't let teams gash you in the run game like we have. I think our corners are athletic enough to hack it with more single deep safety coverage. Plus, it lets you get more creative with disguising coverages anyway.

They are all top paid, former first rounders and we have them play coverage like they are a bunch of UDFA scraps.  I want that job.  Pay me to be the tops for janitorial work.  

If we are going to run this defense, we should be investing the picks and money in the DT and DEs.  

The 2017 Bengals have to be the most absolutely moronic team from a strategy point in the history of the NFL.  No other team could do so little with so much.  

Just praying the new coaching hire is a great one.  

(11-27-2017, 11:39 AM)bfine32 Wrote: We held Cleveland to 16 points while sacking the QB 4 times. It's amazing while some people will consider "playing like crap".

The Defense has out played the offense all year. Folks trying to make one game into a trend are just being silly and petty.

We played well on Offense yesterday and I hope it continues. Oline must have suddenly gotten better.

Dude, the Browns had a WR drop a TD bomb that hit him in both hands with his view unobstructed.  They also had a couple other drops that were on very well thrown balls.  I was actually impressed by Kizer for what he has to work with from a weapon standpoint.  

There was one bad call that took away a TD on Jones PR (even Marv said he didn't see a block in the back) but that was a special teams score.  

(11-27-2017, 04:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Browns also dropped 2 easy INTs, one that would have been a pick 6 and a very questionable defenseless receiver call. Do we get to count those against the Offensive performance?

I've always followed the Bill Parcells model: You are what you say your record says you are. You are what the records/stats say you are.

Yep, you get to count those as well.  But this is a thread about defense.

Brownies put up 405 yds on us.....no bueno.

(11-28-2017, 07:28 AM)ah5 Wrote: they scored 13.... Dkp gave them the ball on the 1..  

I looked on the score sheet and I didn't see any defensive scores. 

If we're going to start taking away TD's because the defense helped with a takeaway, then we need to keep in mind that our offense has received less help than 27 other teams.

Our defense sucks at getting takeaways this year.

(11-28-2017, 10:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, you get to count those as well.  But this is a thread about defense.

Brownies put up 405 yds on us.....no bueno.

You might want to reread the OP

(11-27-2017, 07:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:  Nice to see a change of scheme yesterday

Can we stop this already, please? There was no great "change in scheme" against the Browns. There were 3 things that made a difference in that game. 

1. More Hewitt
2. Better execution
3. Cleveland Browns

The Bengals ran a couple power plays; first play from scrimmage right for 9 and a power left for a loss later in the half. Other than that, there was more snaps for Hewitt which resulted in positive yards and more than anything, Mixon used his cut back lanes better on the inside zone runs, of which, there were plenty as usual. 

Single back sets they run mostly inside zone with a very minimal amount of power plays which always baffles me since they've been so successful with power in Marv's tenure. Mixon's 4th quarter TD was an outside zone run. And there was that stupid toss left to Gio on the short side of the field with the Browns D stacked on that side (dumbest play call ever).

But there was NO grand change in scheme. 

Ok, my rant is over. I just can't be expected to bite my tongue constantly when someone makes threads and multiple posts about something that's not true then someone else continues to use it as an example. 

(11-29-2017, 07:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Can we stop this already, please? There was no great "change in scheme" against the Browns. There were 3 things that made a difference in that game. 

1. More Hewitt
2. Better execution
3. Cleveland Browns

The Bengals ran a couple power plays; first play from scrimmage right for 9 and a power left for a loss later in the half. Other than that, there was more snaps for Hewitt which resulted in positive yards and more than anything, Mixon used his cut back lanes better on the inside zone runs, of which, there were plenty as usual. 

Single back sets they run mostly inside zone with a very minimal amount of power plays which always baffles me since they've been so successful with power in Marv's tenure. Mixon's 4th quarter TD was an outside zone run. And there was that stupid toss left to Gio on the short side of the field with the Browns D stacked on that side (dumbest play call ever).

But there was NO grand change in scheme. 

Ok, my rant is over. I just can't be expected to bite my tongue constantly when someone makes threads and multiple posts about something that's not true then someone else continues to use it as an example. 

Surprised, rewatching the game tape how many of it was zone reads out of the shotgun. Looks like the line just created A LOT of push (see play at 0:14).

Honestly, looks like a really good day by the offensive line, creating push off the defensive line and winning the trenches. 

Joe Mixon is so talented that when he gets to that second level, he's hard to stop and his mix of speed and size makes him a challenge. If you can get him a good yard or two, and into the 'next level' he has breakaway talent, on every play. I don't think we have had a running back this talented or with this much potential since Corey Dillion.






Also, shout out to Hewitt. Looks like maybe 30% of our successful run plays utilized him, but no doubt, that final drive was a great combination of the line and Hewitt sealing with some great blocks. Both huge gains on that final drive came with significant help from Hewitt. 

(11-27-2017, 09:31 AM)corpjet Wrote: Dre typically doesn't get beat deep but gives up everything under the sun underneath.....the deep throw and catch to Corey Coleman was a bit of a shock to me........almost like Dre gave up not thinking the ball was coming his way.....

For someone so small he gets burned often, he can't tackle either. He is a liability.

Shaw has been bad all year he was decent in years past but this year his play has fell way off. A Jones is not the most willing tackler one of his few flaws. Kirkpatrick does get beat but it is not a lack of speed just screw ups here and there. W Jackson is going to be a great corner and Dennard is improving with reps. We are better at linebacker then in years past but could still improve quite a bit. Its going to be fun watching Lawson play here for a long time hope he can play some linebacker in the future as well. We have talent at linebacker and on the D line could always use more. The bend don't break approach is sound but they need to get aggressive a lil more and get some three and outs it would go a long way to helping the D stay fresh. We give up a lot of yards with the bend don't break approach. With the talent we have on D we should be able to stop more teams before they get into field goal range and into the red zone.

(11-29-2017, 08:02 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Surprised, rewatching the game tape how many of it was zone reads out of the shotgun. Looks like the line just created A LOT of push (see play at 0:14).

Honestly, looks like a really good day by the offensive line, creating push off the defensive line and winning the trenches. 

Joe Mixon is so talented that when he gets to that second level, he's hard to stop and his mix of speed and size makes him a challenge. If you can get him a good yard or two, and into the 'next level' he has breakaway talent, on every play. I don't think we have had a running back this talented or with this much potential since Corey Dillion.






Also, shout out to Hewitt. Looks like maybe 30% of our successful run plays utilized him, but no doubt, that final drive was a great combination of the line and Hewitt sealing with some great blocks. Both huge gains on that final drive came with significant help from Hewitt. 

Def. Mixon did a much better job of getting to the LOS quick and making his decision on the run. None of that standing around waiting for a hole to open up "patience" thing. LBell has amazing explosiveness which allows him to do that. 

Hewitt was long overdue.

(11-29-2017, 02:40 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Def. Mixon did a much better job of getting to the LOS quick and making his decision on the run. None of that standing around waiting for a hole to open up "patience" thing. LBell has amazing explosiveness which allows him to do that. 

Hewitt was long overdue.

Hewitt did a good job on several of those runs blocking too.

(11-29-2017, 07:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Can we stop this already, please? There was no great "change in scheme" against the Browns. There were 3 things that made a difference in that game. 

1. More Hewitt
2. Better execution
3. Cleveland Browns

The Bengals ran a couple power plays; first play from scrimmage right for 9 and a power left for a loss later in the half. Other than that, there was more snaps for Hewitt which resulted in positive yards and more than anything, Mixon used his cut back lanes better on the inside zone runs, of which, there were plenty as usual. 

Single back sets they run mostly inside zone with a very minimal amount of power plays which always baffles me since they've been so successful with power in Marv's tenure. Mixon's 4th quarter TD was an outside zone run. And there was that stupid toss left to Gio on the short side of the field with the Browns D stacked on that side (dumbest play call ever).

But there was NO grand change in scheme. 

Ok, my rant is over. I just can't be expected to bite my tongue constantly when someone makes threads and multiple posts about something that's not true then someone else continues to use it as an example. 

Sure as hell didn't look like the same passive zone blocking scheme i have seen all year. Much more aggressive,
and it was much more directional than we have been seeing before this game. If this is the same zone, something
changed, cause it wasn't these guys just sitting back and letting the Defense attack. The O-line did the attacking
for once.

Definately love seeing Hewitt much more.

Mixon was great at just hitting the hole and going forward and laying the wood.

Just don't give me its the Browns shit. Lots of people had us losing this game to them and they are one of the best
run stopping teams in the NFL. Don't care what their record is.

(11-29-2017, 03:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure as hell didn't look like the same passive zone blocking scheme i have seen all year. Much more aggressive,
and it was much more directional than we have been seeing before this game. If this is the same zone, something
changed, cause it wasn't these guys just sitting back and letting the Defense attack. The O-line did the attacking
for once.

Definately love seeing Hewitt much more.

Mixon was great at just hitting the hole and going forward and laying the wood.

Just don't give me its the Browns shit. Lots of people had us losing this game to them and they are one of the best
run stopping teams in the NFL. Don't care what their record is.

That was one of the main keys. Mixon was not hesitating. He had several nice cut backs and he squeezed through some small holes. He spoke of a meeting with the Oline recently to hash out some things and get on the same page. 

You can talk all day about how stout the Browns run D has been this year and about how they shut the Bengals down the first time. Their success running against the Browns the last 4 years or so contradicts all of it. Jeremy Hill looked like a world beater against them and average against pretty much everyone else.