(12-12-2017, 02:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is kinda silly. I was around for the 90's and want Marv out. Wyche was seconds away from a championship. Marv is 0-7 in the playoffs and basically .500 as a HC.

What do we have to fear? Going 6-10? We're already doing that. 2 years in a row now. Are we not going to win a playoff game for 15 years? Already done that.

It's mind-boggling the support Marv is getting lately. It's as if people are traumatized and not thinking clearly.

Couldn't agree more and I really, really, REALLY don't get the OMG we could go back to the 90's narrative and gotta keep Marv cause mantra !

I mean how much more obvious can it get that all we have with Marv is 7-8 wins at 1:00pm on Sundays against the lower half of the league and throw in one or two anomalies a year against decent teams and back into the playoffs only to be crushed and embarrassed by good teams.

He breaks down like a double barreled shotgun anytime the heat is on, can't beat Pittsburgh - ever. Can't win under the lights, can't win in playoffs. Can't adjust at all in game, can't score after half time.

Explain to me exactly what the hell we're giving up ?

(12-12-2017, 02:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: In fairness, it's not like wanting a change after 15 years is exactly a knee jerk reaction or just change for the sake of change.

At this point, I think it's better for everyone involved to go in a different direction and try something new.

Yep.

To me the scariest thing is you basically lose all your coaches and most of your scouts at the same time. But that's a good thing when you're not getting results.

(12-12-2017, 02:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: In fairness, it's not like wanting a change after 15 years is exactly a knee jerk reaction or just change for the sake of change.

At this point, I think it's better for everyone involved to go in a different direction and try something new.

For the people who just now want a change yes you are right. But we have had numerous people wanting a change since 2006.

(12-12-2017, 02:55 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Couldn't agree more and I really, really, REALLY don't get the OMG we could go back to the 90's narrative and gotta keep Marv cause mantra !

I mean how much more obvious can it get that all we have with Marv is 7-8 wins at 1:00pm on Sundays against the lower half of the league and throw in one or two anomalies a year against decent teams and back into the playoffs only to be crushed and embarrassed by good teams.

He breaks down like a double barreled shotgun anytime the heat is on, can't beat Pittsburgh - ever. Can't win under the lights, can't win in playoffs. Can't adjust at all in game, can't score after half time.

Explain to me exactly what the hell we're giving up ?

I think that we need to get rid of Marvin...but there absolutely is a chance we could go back to 90's level bad IF the new staff can't scout and co-exist with Mike Brown.

It's possible.

But we're better off swinging for the fences than accepting mediocrity.

(12-12-2017, 02:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is kinda silly. I was around for the 90's and want Marv out. Wyche was seconds away from a championship. Marv is 0-7 in the playoffs and basically .500 as a HC.

What do we have to fear? Going 6-10? We're already doing that. 2 years in a row now. Are we not going to win a playoff game for 15 years? Already done that.

It's mind-boggling the support Marv is getting lately. It's as if people are traumatized and not thinking clearly.

You can want a change and still respect the guy for what he has done for the franchise. This should be a time to look back and enjoy instead of acting like we are moving on from Dave Shula.

(12-12-2017, 03:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You can want a change and still respect the guy for what he has done for the franchise.    This should be a time to look back and enjoy instead of acting like we are moving on from Dave Shula.

I've stated dozens of times I like the guy, would love to shake his hand and thank him. It's not hate or disrespect !

It's just time, way past time in fact for new blood and change.

(12-12-2017, 03:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've stated dozens of times I like the guy, would love to shake his hand and thank him. It's not hate or disrespect !

It's just time, way past time in fact for new blood and change.

Agreed.

Honestly, this is probably the toughest franchise in the NFL to build a winner with because they spend under the cap while most owners would spend tens of millions over the cap if they could.

(12-12-2017, 03:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: For the people who just now want a change yes you are right.  But we have had numerous people wanting a change since 2006.

Since 2008, and I'm not sure those people were wrong. In the end, we've had a lot of all-time great Bengals who will go down having never won a playoff game over the last 10 years. Was keeping Marv the right move? That's very debatable. Those 5 playoff runs should've yielded more than just swift and embarrassing exits considering the talent and coordinators we had.

(12-12-2017, 03:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You can want a change and still respect the guy for what he has done for the franchise.    This should be a time to look back and enjoy instead of acting like we are moving on from Dave Shula.

I'm sure there will be Marvin Lewis memory threads aplenty after he gets fired. I will certainly participate in that. 

Not sure he deserves a parade for being a .500 level coach with no playoff wins in 15 years, but I've always appreciated his role in turning things around all those years ago.

(12-12-2017, 03:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Since 2008, and I'm not sure those people were wrong. In the end, we've had a lot of all-time great Bengals who will go down having never won a playoff game over the last 10 years. Was keeping Marv the right move? That's very debatable. Those 5 playoff runs should've yielded more than just swift and embarrassing exits considering the talent and coordinators we had.


I'm sure there will be Marvin Lewis memory threads aplenty after he gets fired. I will certainly participate in that. 

Not sure he deserves a parade for being a .500 level coach with no playoff wins in 15 years, but I've always appreciated his role in turning things around all those years ago.

Yeah it's tough to evaluate his tenure. I do think he overachieved some years too...like the year after Palmer left making the playoffs was totally unexpected.

But the year we went what 11-5 and lost to the Steelers in the playoffs may have been the lowest point in Bengals history.

(12-12-2017, 03:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah it's tough to evaluate his tenure. I do think he overachieved some years too...like the year after Palmer left making the playoffs was totally unexpected.

But the year we went what 11-5 and lost to the Steelers in the playoffs may have been the lowest point in Bengals history.

We were extremely lucky that year, ball bounced our way and IIRC we played a very easy schedule that season. 

(12-12-2017, 03:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah it's tough to evaluate his tenure. I do think he overachieved some years too...like the year after Palmer left making the playoffs was totally unexpected.

But the year we went what 11-5 and lost to the Steelers in the playoffs may have been the lowest point in Bengals history.

It was unexpected only because people were unaware of how good Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Gruden and Zimmer would be. 

He didn't exactly whip up a miracle out of bad parts. The parts were pretty great. We just didn't know it yet.

(12-12-2017, 03:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It was unexpected only because people were unaware of how good Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Gruden and Zimmer would be. 

He didn't exactly whip up a miracle out of bad parts. The parts were pretty great. We just didn't know it yet.

Totally agree but I think the football gods smiled on us a bit as well.

Edit: wonder where they are now ?

To hell with the Pre-Marvin horse crap - Pre-Mikey Boy!!!

Before ***** got a hold and destroyed it!

(12-12-2017, 02:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wow! Great post.

I think we can blame Marvin for the 0-7 in the playoffs.

But...these past 2 years? We've LOST a lot of quality free agents and the drafted guys haven't adequately replaced them. The blame goes on whoever is doing the drafting and scouting. And possibly the structure of the scouting department with so few scouts.

Remember quite a few of those opening round playoff losses. Many analysts said we had best roster in the league. its unrealistic to attain that every year. now we have a good roster not a great roster and you see Marvin's coaching this year. 

(12-12-2017, 04:35 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Remember quite a few of those opening round playoff losses. Many analysts said we had best roster in the league. its unrealistic to attain that every year. now we have a good roster not a great roster and you see Marvin's coaching this year. 

Do you really think we have a Good roster? We have about 10 starters who grade Poor by PFF.

I'd argue that the Steelers and Ravens have much better rosters than us.

It's beyond sad when a franchise's last great post season moment of glory is over a quarter century old.

All of those playoff appearances and not a one good memory.

Let that sink in.

It's not that they lost some competitive games with any mild success.

They flat out sucked.

The one game they probably should have won they embarrassed the hell out of us.

He couldn't control his players, not even Peko.

Now tell me again why I want to throw accolades at Lewis?

Game prep, execution, any kind of halftime adjustments.  None.  Not one was Mike Brown's doing.  That's all Marv.

He took a fancy sports car and drove it into a wall a couple of times.

(12-12-2017, 02:55 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Couldn't agree more and I really, really, REALLY don't get the OMG we could go back to the 90's narrative and gotta keep Marv cause mantra !

I mean how much more obvious can it get that all we have with Marv is 7-8 wins at 1:00pm on Sundays against the lower half of the league and throw in one or two anomalies a year against decent teams and back into the playoffs only to be crushed and embarrassed by good teams.

He breaks down like a double barreled shotgun anytime the heat is on, can't beat Pittsburgh - ever. Can't win under the lights, can't win in playoffs. Can't adjust at all in game, can't score after half time.

Explain to me exactly what the hell we're giving up ?

Who is saying we have to keep Marvin bc we could go back to the 90’s? I think most are just trying to offer some perspective on where we’ve been. People around here are acting like the sky has fallen and then some. By most standards, Marvin had a good run here. Does that mean he should stay, no. Just recognize that being in the playoffs year after year is a significant accomplishment, and should be appreciated (even if we didn’t go anywhere once we got there).

In the 90’s, we were realistically out of the playoffs by Halloween every season. That really sucked. So just keep in mind there are varying degrees of misery, and the Marvin years have been mostly glorious, compared to what came before.

Give Marvin some respect on his way out the door. He’s earned it.

I remember those years all too well. And Marvin does deserve credit for changing that culture and getting them to what was a perennial playoff team.

But that ship has sailed.

You can't be afraid of change or you will forever be content with mediocrity.

(12-13-2017, 08:17 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I remember those years all too well. And Marvin does deserve credit for changing that culture and getting them to what was a perennial playoff team.

But that ship has sailed.

You can't be afraid of change or you will forever be content with mediocrity.

Oh...we HAVE to make a change. We should have made a change 3 years ago.

It's just the Bengals need to modernize the rest of the operation too.