(12-17-2017, 01:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Lafell has been one of the worst blocking WRs of the year. You could literally just not try and have similar success. Should be about WR skill at that point 

The word Marv has used and that I used is "committed" not "good". 

Show that clip of Ross in sweatpants to lure in a top tier HC.

(12-17-2017, 08:32 AM)McC Wrote: Yeah, two plays define a career.  SMH.

Shake your head all you want. I didn't say those two plays defined his career. But, he's had two plays that I've seen, and has failed on both. I think that tells me more about how ready he is than hand picked practice videos he's posted.....

(12-17-2017, 11:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Shake your head all you want. I didn't say those two plays defined his career. But, he's had two plays that I've seen, and has failed on both. I think that tells me more about how ready he is than hand picked practice videos he's posted.....

Yeah, you pretty much did.   Jumping to conclusions is exercise, at least.

(12-17-2017, 11:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Shake your head all you want. I didn't say those two plays defined his career. But, he's had two plays that I've seen, and has failed on both. I think that tells me more about how ready he is than hand picked practice videos he's posted.....

I don’t think the video or the 2 game snaps tell us much of anything at all.

(12-18-2017, 03:07 AM)McC Wrote: Yeah, you pretty much did.   Jumping to conclusions is exercise, at least.

No, I pretty much didn't. We're talking about how ready he is now.... not what his career will be down the road.....

(12-15-2017, 10:54 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yikes. He must have been DEEP into Marvins dog house. Wonder what the real story is.

To be fair though, thats only about 10 reps of what is most like a few hundred reps from practice. So who knows.

Yeah, and in those 10 reps he showed separation we have not seen in another Bengal WR this season.  The playbook?  Conditioning?  Lies, lies, lies...

Marv wanted Rueben Foster and when he didn't get him, he took his ball and went home like a *****.  Must have learned that from Palmer.  

(12-15-2017, 12:33 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: All the clips are just catching passes. Earlier in the year Marv was criticizing Ross on his blocking ability. If he was hiding a shoulder injury, that would make blocking pretty difficult, just ask Boling last year. Marv has always said the WR on this team have to be committed to run blocking if they want to play.

This actually makes sense in a Marvinesque manner.  If Ogbuehi can't run block or pass block as an OT is asked to, at least he has good feet and could go out for a pass once in a blue moon.

Ross had a specific job as the X receiver.  Either take advantage of coverage rolled to AJ Green or draw coverage away from Green.  To keep him on the bench for the incredibly below average Brandon Lafell was the dumbest move Marv has made since starting Jones over WJIII and Dennard.  

(12-15-2017, 05:41 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: So you think Marvin is going to ruin his whole reputation over a rookie WR?  There is way more to this story than a handful of practice clips.

What reputation?  A lot of golf clap, let's go?  He is a dinosaur, like Lovie Smith and Jeff Fisher that the game passed by years ago, but we kept him around for continuity sake and lost the coaches that actually gave this team a chance (Hue, Zimmer, Gruden, Joseph).  

How many times have we seen the illogical approach of Marv holding guys back in favor of veteran turds?  How does MJ keep starting at RDE when he is only effective lined up in the middle on passing downs over Lawson and Willis?  How did we keep trotting out Jeremy Hill over Mixon early on?  How long have we kept guys like Core, Malone, and Ross on the bench in favor of the incredibly below average Lafell?

Hell, Burfict would have probably sat behind Thomas for the entire season if not for an injury, and that guy is the most talented player on our entire roster.

Just like Burkhead tearing it up in New England, an innovative coach will come in here and use the assets the way they should be used.

I want our next coach to be aggressive, innovative, and combative (against the NFL and all its bullshit officiating).  

(12-16-2017, 02:12 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Geno played his rookie year no he didn't start but he did play on passing downs, Carlos played and had 9 sacks his rookie year, crocker was better than Iloka in 12, Iloka and Nelson were better than Williams, Binns over Sanu and Jones point you, Clint started at RG and sucked his first year, Leon Hall was better than Dennard, and MJ wasn't ready yet his rookie year. 

Leon Hall was absolute toast as a rookie.  Got abused by Braylon Edwards at Cleveland.  Then, he worked through it and a couple years later was one of the best in the league and shut down Edwards.

It is called a learning curve for a reason, but the point so many here seem to miss is that you don't learn by sitting.  The game is the best teacher.  Sometimes, you have to take your lumps and learn from it.  Here, you sit and when you finally get a shot, you are expected to not make any mistakes.  Makes zero sense. 

(12-17-2017, 12:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Responding to a disappointing season by putting players who weren't ready on the field for the hell of it is more of a Browns move than a Bengals one.

For the hell of it?  How many times do we come in to a season and have our fingers crossed that a player "pans out"?  What is to be gained from starting Lafell over guys like Core, Ross, and Malone?  What is to be gained by starting Bodine instead of giving a guy like TJ Johnson, Westerman, or Redmond (at Guard) some snaps to see what they can show in an actual game setting?  

With the season all but finished after the steeler game, the coaches should be evaluating ALL the talent for next year, but they don't care about next year, now do they?

What if a guy like Redmond splits snaps with Hopkins the rest of the way and is impressive and hands-down better than Hopkins (not unrealistic)?  You wouldn't think you need to draft a Guard next year to replace the weakest link (to be fair, the middle three are all pretty weak) on the line?

I would probably get the crap from the coaching staff that they are too busy with paperwork installing the game plan than actually evaluating the players.  This staff is light years behind competitive.  Clean them ALL out.  Start new. 

(12-18-2017, 10:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: For the hell of it?  How many times do we come in to a season and have our fingers crossed that a player "pans out"?  What is to be gained from starting Lafell over guys like Core, Ross, and Malone?

Maybe by playing a guy like Lafell over a guy like Ross we send a message that players will earn their playing time based on their productivity, not because they are younger and/or were drafted higher.  We want to establish a winning culture here where coaches hold players accountable, but we also want to see guys like John Ross put on the field over more productive players.

All Ross had to do to get on the field was look better than Brandon Lafell, and he didn't.  So in summation, the value of playing a guy like Lafell over guys like Core, Ross, and Malone is that it should, in theory, send a message to the young guys...something that I'd assume a winner of a HC would want to do.

I'm not Lafell's cousin or anything, but if it's stupid to play him because he's over 30 then we shouldn't have picked him up in the first place.  We should have gone into 2016 with Green and then some sort of amalgamation of Erickson, Kumerow, Wright, Boyd and Core.  Quit getting old washed-up WRs off the scrap-heap if they're going to outplay our young guys.

(12-18-2017, 11:01 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe by playing a guy like Lafell over a guy like Ross we send a message that players will earn their playing time based on their productivity, not because they are younger and/or were drafted higher.  We want to establish a winning culture here where coaches hold players accountable, but we also want to see guys like John Ross put on the field over more productive players.

All Ross had to do to get on the field was look better than Brandon Lafell, and he didn't.  So in summation, the value of playing a guy like Lafell over guys like Core, Ross, and Malone is that it should, in theory, send a message to the young guys...something that I'd assume a winner of a HC would want to do.

I'm not Lafell's cousin or anything, but if it's stupid to play him because he's over 30 then we shouldn't have picked him up in the first place.  We should have gone into 2016 with Green and then some sort of amalgamation of Erickson, Kumerow, Wright, Boyd and Core.  Quit getting old washed-up WRs off the scrap-heap if they're going to outplay our young guys.

You lost me at this statement.  Lafell was productive with AJ Green on the other side of the field and Joe Mixon in the backfield?   No, he wasn't.  Look at his targets vs receptions and he hardly ever got separation in one on one coverage.  People love to kill Dalton for holding the ball too long and then scrambling, but he hardly ever had someone with clear separation.  I counted ONE contested pass for Case Keenum yesterday.  One.  That is not what Dalton got to see when he dropped back in to coverage.  

As far as earning the spot goes, how can you demonstrate superiority in non-contact practices?  Ross should have been getting way more opportunities than he did as should Core and Malone.  I think our next coach will show you that the best play, and the rest sit.  At least I hope that is what happens. 

(12-18-2017, 09:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You lost me at this statement.  Lafell was productive with AJ Green on the other side of the field and Joe Mixon in the backfield?   No, he wasn't.  Look at his targets vs receptions and he hardly ever got separation in one on one coverage.  People love to kill Dalton for holding the ball too long and then scrambling, but he hardly ever had someone with clear separation.  I counted ONE contested pass for Case Keenum yesterday.  One.  That is not what Dalton got to see when he dropped back in to coverage.  

As far as earning the spot goes, how can you demonstrate superiority in non-contact practices?  Ross should have been getting way more opportunities than he did as should Core and Malone.  I think our next coach will show you that the best play, and the rest sit.  At least I hope that is what happens. 

We can agree to disagree on this one.  For John Ross' sake and the sake if our team I sincerely hope he decides to play it safe and work harder next year. 

Didn't Ross do an impression of Lewis during training camp...

This MUST be what pissed Marv off

(12-18-2017, 09:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We can agree to disagree on this one.  For John Ross' sake and the sake if our team I sincerely hope he decides to play it safe and work harder next year. 

How does anyone know he wasn't working hard this year?  It's been like a state secret and that has led to rampant guessing.

(12-18-2017, 09:34 PM)McC Wrote: How does anyone know he wasn't working hard this year?  It's been like a state secret and that has led to rampant guessing.

That's kinda been the m.o. of this organization recently.

(12-18-2017, 09:43 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: That's kinda been the m.o. of this organization recently.

Ross was injured, not up to speed mentally or physically and is now on IR.  Sorry for the spoilers.  Here's to seeing what he can do next year, but I don't see the point in kicking ourselves over thinking we blew it this year by not playing him. 

(12-18-2017, 10:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What reputation?  A lot of golf clap, let's go?  He is a dinosaur, like Lovie Smith and Jeff Fisher that the game passed by years ago, but we kept him around for continuity sake and lost the coaches that actually gave this team a chance (Hue, Zimmer, Gruden, Joseph).  

Unlike Lovie Smith and Jeff Fisher, Marvin has never won a playoff game. At least Lovie and Jeff took their teams to the SB once while they stewed in their mediocrity.

Interesting that once the Bengals finish losing out (we all know they will) Marvin will finish 2 games over .500 for his career. The same number as Lovie Smith, just minus the 3 postseason wins and 1 AFC Championship.

(12-18-2017, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Leon Hall was absolute toast as a rookie.  Got abused by Braylon Edwards at Cleveland.  Then, he worked through it and a couple years later was one of the best in the league and shut down Edwards.

It is called a learning curve for a reason, but the point so many here seem to miss is that you don't learn by sitting.  The game is the best teacher.  Sometimes, you have to take your lumps and learn from it.  Here, you sit and when you finally get a shot, you are expected to not make any mistakes.  Makes zero sense. 

Braylon Edwards abused a LOT of people that year. 80 catches, almost 1,300 yards (back when that was still a ton), 16 TDs. He was a 2nd Team All-Pro.

The Browns were actually 10-6 that year. That was the year Kellen Winslow was a Pro Bowler, too.

(12-18-2017, 11:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Unlike Lovie Smith and Jeff Fisher, Marvin has never won a playoff game. At least Lovie and Jeff took their teams to the SB once while they stewed in their mediocrity.

Interesting that once the Bengals finish losing out (we all know they will) Marvin will finish 2 games over .500 for his career. The same number as Lovie Smith, just minus the 3 postseason wins and 1 AFC Championship.


Braylon Edwards abused a LOT of people that year. 80 catches, almost 1,300 yards (back when that was still a ton), 16 TDs. He was a 2nd Team All-Pro.

The Browns were actually 10-6 that year. That was the year Kellen Winslow was a Pro Bowler, too.

Braylon was the worst of it, but I remember Leon getting burned quite a bit that first year. Enough to make me concerned. 

He definitely took his lumps early and I think he got better because of it.