(01-13-2018, 10:46 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Pulling for him and his new staff to prove MB has held Bengals back for years with a big season.

Marvin is complicit. You think anyone with a burning desire to win would’ve been happy or even ok with being held back for 17 straight years?

(01-14-2018, 10:20 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Marvin is complicit. You think anyone with a burning desire to win would’ve been happy or even ok with being held back for 17 straight years?

See, that's the trump card right there. No matter what changes are made to this coaching staff or rhetoric that spews from them. There is this!

(01-14-2018, 02:38 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Is there any proof Marvin was even givin more control to pick his staff. We all know Mike doesn't like change, who's to say Mike isn't the one to make the demands. You still want to coach Marvin, well you've had 15 years, I'll pay you 4 million again but I'm picking the coordinators.

A successful franchise wouldn't allow a 15 year coach with his record not under contract make demands. Insane just thinking about this.

Maybe no real proof, but firing MB'S good friend PA is proof enough I believe. 

(01-14-2018, 10:20 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Marvin is complicit. You think anyone with a burning desire to win would’ve been happy or even ok with being held back for 17 straight years?

Agree with this and actually have been fooled before because thought Marvin was given control in 2011 as well. 

Still hoping for the best. 

Yet Marvin is also complicit in changing the expectations from Bengals fans.

Before Marvin we just knew we sucked. Now at least there is hope.

The Bengals are like Hotel California. We can check out any time we like, but Marv will never leave.

(01-13-2018, 10:44 PM)Go Cards Wrote: When Marvin leave ?

When Hell freezes over !

My initial thoughts when I saw the title....

(01-14-2018, 10:20 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Marvin is complicit. You think anyone with a burning desire to win would’ve been happy or even ok with being held back for 17 straight years?

Exactly, Shame on MB for being stubborn but Marvin also for just going with it. Like you said, if Marvin wanted to win he woul have left years ago. Can't blame the guy for coming back ever year. He had something like 4.5 million reasons to.

Fwiw, I'm not buying the suddenly very popular narrative that Marv was given more control (we had the same narrative going after the Jan 2011 press conference). Like Holic said, we had a bunch of coaches up at once and that made it easy to swap some guys out. Some of these guys left on their own volition (Guenther and possibly Urban, maybe more).

So the HC is the same.
They didn't want to change either of the coordinators.
We brought in what? 3 new position coaches and a couple position assistants?

Sure the guys we hired were pretty high quality. I'm still not buying that this is a power shift and Mikey is going to let Marv run the team. People constantly underestimate Mike and seem to need to create this idea that he's stepping away. It will never happen. He apparently loves Marv like a newborn loves it's binky, and because of that he'll make some concessions every now and then...but don't let it fool you. Mike will never concede full-on control of his team (money).

He will never build a practice facility (something that was supposed to be a sticking point after 2010). He will never push his chips in on free agency. He will always stick his nose in on player decisions when he sees fit to. At 82 years old, I think he is who he is, and any hope for real change is long gone.

(01-13-2018, 10:44 PM)Go Cards Wrote: When Marvin leave ?

When Hell freezes over !

(01-14-2018, 11:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fwiw, I'm not buying the suddenly very popular narrative that Marv was given more control (we had the same narrative going after the Jan 2011 press conference). Like Holic said, we had a bunch of coaches up at once and that made it easy to swap some guys out. Some of these guys left on their own volition (Guenther and possibly Urban, maybe more).

So the HC is the same.
They didn't want to change either of the coordinators.
We brought in what? 3 new position coaches and a couple position assistants?

Sure the guys we hired were pretty high quality. I'm still not buying that this is a power shift and Mikey is going to let Marv run the team. People constantly underestimate Mike and seem to need to create this idea that he's stepping away. It will never happen. He apparently loves Marv like a newborn loves it's binky, and because of that he'll make some concessions every now and then...but don't let it fool you. Mike will never concede full-on control of his team (money).

He will never build a practice facility (something that was supposed to be a sticking point after 2010). He will never push his chips in on free agency. He will always stick his nose in on player decisions when he sees fit to. At 82 years old, I think he is who he is, and any hope for real change is long gone.

For all we know.

Most wanted raises and Mike didn't want to abide.

Those who were okay with proposed pay or didn't want to go anywhere stayed.

This power shift change could all be a sense of suspended reality for the fans.

(01-14-2018, 11:57 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: For all we know.

Most wanted raises and Mike didn't want to abide.

Those who were okay with proposed pay or didn't want to go anywhere stayed.

This power shift change could all be a sense of suspended reality for the fans.

Bengal fans on the hope train.

(01-13-2018, 03:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: One of the issues I have (seriously, I do) is with all the ex-steeler coaches coming to town. I'm trying to talk my way off the "Trojan Horse" ledge. Thoughts reminiscent that of something I heard once about radical Muslim beliefs that the best way to defeat a country is from within (probably not close to accurate, but seriously, I heard that somewhere). So, with those 2 examples you can kinda see where the conspiracy thinking is coming from.

However, there is a little voice inside my head (believe me, there are many) which is telling me that Marvin is bringing in all these ex's as a way to plan against them. The more knowledge and experience you have from all levels of that organization, might actually help you gameplan against them and bring them down. Then again, if the general leading this wage of war on the steelers is Marvin? Well, we are screwed anyway because even with all the assistance in game planning. He's just not that good of a game planner or game manager. Hell, he's really not that good at a lot of things it takes to win. His flaws are countless.

I guess we wont know until we get through half the season next year on where we stand. I hope we are dominant and kick butt in primetime, win playoff GAMES and even make it to the SB at the end of the season. But if we make it? We can't lose this one.

Geez, I just talked our way to a SB? I have to get real and pour the koolade down the drain and open a beer and get real.

you are putting too much {win or lose} on the coaches.....
imo, it's not about that.......
if you want a quality team, DRAFT QUALITY O-LINE PLAYERS....
 & KEEP THEM...... like the steelers do w/ Pouncy & DeCastro....
they can run the ball......control the clock.....& control the game....

if we don't learn this lesson we will always be behind the 8-ball....

we could of had Decastro....but no...instead of drafting the #1 quality OG we traded down......drafted a lower grade OG in Zeitler....then refused to resign him......so we're left w/ band aids........basiclly back ups...
seems we always have OC that are 4th rd picks or lower.....we just don't want Quality interior O-linemen....then we struggle on offense....it's b/c of our poor drafting......then we draft 2 OT's that are both weak....Ced & Fisher.....
some then blame the coaches.....
it's not so much the coach imo, it's the junk O-line....
you can't win the Ky derby riding a cheap mule....

I don't drink alcohol......i'll stick w/ other things....
alcohol has many defenders, but it has no defense
Abe Lincoln

(01-14-2018, 11:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fwiw, I'm not buying the suddenly very popular narrative that Marv was given more control (we had the same narrative going after the Jan 2011 press conference). Like Holic said, we had a bunch of coaches up at once and that made it easy to swap some guys out. Some of these guys left on their own volition (Guenther and possibly Urban, maybe more).

So the HC is the same.
They didn't want to change either of the coordinators.
We brought in what? 3 new position coaches and a couple position assistants?

Sure the guys we hired were pretty high quality. I'm still not buying that this is a power shift and Mikey is going to let Marv run the team. People constantly underestimate Mike and seem to need to create this idea that he's stepping away. It will never happen. He apparently loves Marv like a newborn loves it's binky, and because of that he'll make some concessions every now and then...but don't let it fool you. Mike will never concede full-on control of his team (money).

He will never build a practice facility (something that was supposed to be a sticking point after 2010). He will never push his chips in on free agency. He will always stick his nose in on player decisions when he sees fit to. At 82 years old, I think he is who he is, and any hope for real change is long gone.

I couldn't agree more Shake and I'm not buying it either. Until I see this team actually start being ran like a real NFL franchise it's all talk !

Now if we actually get a free agent or two on the first couple days, cut some dead wood that still is under contract, draft some O-line early etc. I might start believing ?

(01-14-2018, 11:57 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: For all we know.

Most wanted raises and Mike didn't want to abide.

Those who were okay with proposed pay or didn't want to go anywhere stayed.

This power shift change could all be a sense of suspended reality for the fans.

People just need to hope, and I believe Mike relies on that hope to sell tickets. He's certainly not selling anything based on results.

Just to clarify, I did love the Pollack hire and I'm pleased with the guys we brought in, but I'm not going to use it to craft some narrative about Mike conceding power. We should all know better by now. Some just allow hope to win out over evidence.

(01-14-2018, 12:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Bengal fans on the hope train.

...and then the season starts.

(01-14-2018, 11:08 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals are like Hotel California. We can check out any time we like, but Marv will never leave.

Plus the song is about Hell and sometimes it feels as fans we are stuck in some sort of recycled  Bengals hell. 

(01-14-2018, 12:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus the song is about Hell and sometimes it feels as fans we are stuck in some sort of recycled  Bengals hell. 

Lol true. 

(01-14-2018, 12:12 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I couldn't agree more Shake and I'm not buying it either. Until I see this team actually start being ran like a real NFL franchise it's all talk !

Now if we actually get a free agent or two on the first couple days, cut some dead wood that still is under contract, draft some O-line early etc. I might start believing ?

Same here. That would be a major change in Mike's very unique philosophy, which seems to center around saving money.

(01-14-2018, 11:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He will never build a practice facility (something that was supposed to be a sticking point after 2010). He will never push his chips in on free agency. He will always stick his nose in on player decisions when he sees fit to. At 82 years old, I think he is who he is, and any hope for real change is long gone.

I don't think it was an indor practice facility. It was the upgrade to the indoor training and rehibilitation area which was done.

Also they have a practice bubble at UC (Which im sure MB was a big investor) which is only like what 10 minutes away? As for a 10 minute bus ride being bad...the Steelers indoor facility is part of Pittsburgh University and twice the distance from the stadium.

(01-14-2018, 12:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Same here. That would be a major change in Mike's very unique philosophy, which seems to center around saving money.

Well, maybe Mike has stuffed all his mattresses with cash and has nowhere else to stash any more so he will have no choice but spend some of it.

And the the alarm went off and woke me up.

Marvin definitely deserves some of the blame, however, the bulk still falls on Mike Brown. When the Bengals were on Hard Knocks in 2013, Marvin talked about how Mike Brown sits around and draws up personnel packages that he wants to see together. He tinkers and has his hands in everything. He is the owner AND GM, so it's not a surprise. Plus, we all saw the videos where Mike Brown was in the room discussing player cuts. Mike Brown knows next to nothing about football. All the proof I need to support that statement is to look at how the Bengals have done since he took over.

I know 2013 was a few years ago, but I highly doubt Mike Brown suddenly stopped tinkering or took himself out of personnel decisions. I know he's never selling the team, I know he's never stepping down as GM, and I know there's nothing we can do as fans. There's no denying that the biggest issue holding the Bengals back is Mike Brown.