(02-09-2018, 02:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not so sure. Many teams have their solid-at-worst starter at C already on the roster, and there are a handful in FA that I'm sure teams will snatch up.
I don't see teams going crazy for starting C's in the draft because of that.
And last year we saw only one C go in the first two rounds, which was Elflein.
Pocic was next in early Rd 3, and then everyone else came Rd 5 or later.
I'm not so sure all three of those guys you listed are better than all the C's from last year's draft.

Elflien honestly has not looked as good as i thought he would be in Minny.

Pocic played Guard pretty much exclusively last year.

Roullier on Washington the Center from Wyoming you turned me on to looked good to me when he came in last year
and he is coached by Callahan, ironically Pollack's mentor.

I think Ragnow, Daniels and Price could be better than those guys. I hope you are right and atleast 2 of them fall to the
3rd and we pick one up. Price is a bit overrated in my opinion, Ragnow and Daniels could be top Centers in the league
in a couple of years from what i have seen of them. Ragnow is the most pro ready.

Wynn and Cole are the versatile guys i would love us to grab who can both play Center and nearly every position on the
line. Just happy we have a new O-line coach, this is what really gives me some hope. If he wants to bring back Bodine
fine, as long as it is not for starter money. I will trust Pollack at this point.

(02-09-2018, 12:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually, no, it is nothing like that.

If Bodine had played well in 90% of his games but just looked bad in 3 or 4 playoff games then most people would agree that he had the talent to play well in a playoff game.

Marvin has beaten lots of playoff teams, and coaches use the same skills in the playoffs as they do in the regular season.  I am as upset as anyone that we have not won a playoff game, but you can't say that Marvin does not have the coaching skills to beat playoff teams because the skills are the same in the playoffs as they are in the regular season.

Marvin does not have the coaching skills to beat playoff teams

I even used cut and paste.

(02-09-2018, 03:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Marvin does not have the coaching skills to beat playoff teams

Sure he does,

Since 2011 the Bengals are 12th in the league in total wins against playoff teams.

(02-09-2018, 03:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Marvin does not have the coaching skills to beat playoff teams

I even used cut and paste.

I decided to look up the record against playoff teams in the regular season from 2011-2015.

2011:
0-7 - DEN (L), SF (L), BAL (L x2), PIT (L x2), HOU (L)

2012:
3-3 - BAL (L), WAS (W), PIT (L), DEN (L), PIT (W), BAL (W)

2013:
3-0 - GB (W), NE (W), IND (3)

2014:
2-4 - BAL (W x2), NE (L), IND (L), PIT (L x2)

2015:
3-3 - SEA (W), KC (W), PIT (W), HOU (L), ARI (L), PIT (L)
Total: 11-17 against playoff teams in regular season


So yes, technically Marvin has had "success" against playoff teams in the regular season, but overall it's a losing record, which I'm assuming is what you were getting at.

(02-09-2018, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure he does,

Since 2011 the Bengals are 12th in the league in total wins against playoff teams.

Not IN the playoffs though.

As we all know. 0-7 Fred, 0-7.

(02-09-2018, 03:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I decided to look up the record against playoff teams in the regular season from 2011-2015.

2011:
0-7 - DEN (L), SF (L), BAL (L x2), PIT (L x2), HOU (L)

2012:
3-3 - BAL (L), WAS (W), PIT (L), DEN (L), PIT (W), BAL (W)

2013:
3-0 - GB (W), NE (W), IND (3)

2014:
2-4 - BAL (W x2), NE (L), IND (L), PIT (L x2)

2015:
3-3 - SEA (W), KC (W), PIT (W), HOU (L), ARI (L), PIT (L)
Total: 11-17 against playoff teams in regular season


So yes, technically Marvin has had "success" against playoff teams in the regular season, but overall it's a losing record, which I'm assuming is what you were getting at.

Obviously most teams (29 of 32) have a losing record against playoff teams.  The Bengals .337 winning percentage is also 12th in the league.

If you look at both total wins and winning percentage only 10 teams have both a higher winning percentage and more total wins.

And if you just go back to '12 the Bengals have the 5th most wins and the 6th best winning percentage.  Since '12 only 4 teams (NE, Pitt, Den, Sea) have both more wins and a better winning percentage.

This needs to improve.  All I am pointing out is that Marvin can and has beaten plenty of playoff teams during the regular season and coaches use the same skills in the playoffs that they do in the regular season.

(02-09-2018, 03:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Hmmmm....

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2017/10/11/16457590/ryan-jensen-the-first-offensive-raven-to-earn-pff-team-of-the-week-honors-in-2017-nfl-week-five

lol, you know how I feel about them :p

(02-09-2018, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure he does,

Since 2011 the Bengals are 12th in the league in total wins against playoff teams.

Is that supposed to be good?

(02-09-2018, 05:47 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Is that supposed to be good?

It's above average, which is exactly what the Bengals have been. Good but not great.

(02-09-2018, 05:47 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Is that supposed to be good?

No.  Just better than most.

Did you not read the post I was replying to when I made that post?

(02-09-2018, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure he does,

Since 2011 the Bengals are 12th in the league in total wins against playoff teams.

What a Geoff thing to say.

How many of those wins against playoff teams happened in the playoffs?  Yeah.   That's what I thought.

Fred is really Mike Brown. I figured it out. Who else in their right mind defend the Bengals every move ? So yes I used my 14 years of law enforcement to figure this case out.

(02-09-2018, 05:47 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Is that supposed to be good?

12th is the Bengals' favorite spot. The worst team in the playoffs.

(02-09-2018, 09:26 PM)McC Wrote: What a Geoff thing to say.

How many of those wins against playoff teams happened in the playoffs?  Yeah.   That's what I thought.

You should read the quote I was responding to before commenting.

(02-09-2018, 11:57 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Fred is really Mike Brown.  I figured it out.  Who else in their right mind defend the Bengals every move ? So yes I used my 14 years of law enforcement to figure this case out.

I don't defend every move they make.  I just state the facts.

The Bengals are not elite but they are not the worst.

All I know is when Marvin does make the playoffs, he's crapped the bed every time. There's no way getting around that fact. BTW, how did this thread get so far off the tracks? LOL.

Fred clearly doesn't understand pressure of the moment in sports. Beating someone when the stakes are low doesn't = beating them when the stakes are high. The pressure of the moment matters. Marvin can't even coach them up to play well on national TV, let alone when the season is on the line.

Besides the playoff failures, Marvin's inability to perform under pressure was first shown in 2006 & 2007 when (both seasons) the Bengals needed to win the last game of the season to get into the playoffs and they lost both in epic fashion.

Marvin loses to the Pats and Steelers all the time despite having = talent because he crumbles under the pressure during that week of coaching. It's really plain to see for anyone who's played competitive or high level sports.

I bang on the QB a lot for him falling short in big games, but it isn't all on him. Not at all. He's being led by a guy, Marvin, who cannot get ANY of his teams to rise to the moment. And, in 2015 when they were close, he failed to have them prepared to win, even with the game in hand.

- He failed to get through to Hill to hold the ball and just go down. Down & distance/field position would make that PARAMOUNT at that point in the game.

- He failed to prepare the defensive players for the emotional low right after the Hill fumble. Burfict's hit on Brown.

- He failed to foster a culture of professionalism, which is why Pacman went rogue back to back and lost his cool.

- He then failed to have them ready to come back in 2016.

Marvin just fails under big moments. Period. His 1 success there was with the Ravens, who had the greatest collection of defensive talent ever assembled. Not that impressive of a coaching job.

Wait... my bringing up 2015 reminded me of something...

That was a great year for the Bengals. Russell Bodine was on the roster and started at Center and the offensive line was very good. Why is it that people want to give up on him and think he can't play well? Especially with a new position coach.

(02-10-2018, 12:31 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Wait... my bringing up 2015 reminded me of something...

That was a great year for the Bengals. Russell Bodine was on the roster and started at Center and the offensive line was very good. Why is it that people want to give up on him and think he can't play well? Especially with a new position coach.

Perhaps you should re-watch the Bengals from 2015.  Aside from the obvious Andy Dalton injury, the team had one major flaw.  They seriously struggled to convert critical, short yardage situations.  Teams discovered that they could simply load up on the middle of the line, overpower Bodine, and thwart the run or pass attempt.

(02-07-2018, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To be fair, this is not a rational fan base either.

Remember when playing Peko was "proof the Bengals don't care about winning"?  Remember when Dre Kirkpatrick played like a top 30 CB and people here were acting he was the worst in the league?

The Bengals have the worst owner in the league who spends the least on outside free agents, yet over the last 8 years only FIVE teams have a better record.

Bengals have some problems they need to address, but our coaches are outperforming an overwhelming majority of the league.

It's always simply a question of where you set the bar and if it's a reasonable goal.