(02-11-2018, 09:09 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm not going to champion one win as some great accomplishment when ML lead teams regularly spit the bit against any type of good and above competition.

That's fine.  You don't have to champion it as a great accomplishment

Just don't tell complete lies in order to crap on the time that we did beat them and bend over backwards to try and make th Benagls look worse than they are.

(02-11-2018, 11:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That's fine.  You don't have to champion it as a great accomplishment

Just don't tell complete lies in order to crap on the time that we did beat them and bend over backwards to try and make th Benagls look worse than they are.

I know you love to argue, but I don't think this is the time to dig in your heels. Our Bengals are not a storied, well thought of, or well regarded franchise. We're a joke which is a step up from the laughing stock we once were. True, it hasn't always been that way, but we are definitely not an organization that anyone outside of Bengals land holds in high regard.

Here is my analogy on the Bengals. Like college basketball, they are a mid-major. They generally beat the teams they're supposed, but lose to the big boys. On occasion they'll shock everyone and pull off an upset and a handful of times in their history they've made some waves in the Big Dance, but that's about it. The biggest problem with that our owner/GM is fine with that being the status quo.

They call him Mediocre Merv for a reason......

(02-11-2018, 06:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The whole point is we need to strive to be elite.

Not being the worst is no accomplishment.

I dunno..I've personally accomplished not being the worst at many things in the past. In fact my list of not being the worst at things far exceeds my list of things I'm the best at.

YEY at not being the worst at certain things.. Some people just want to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat..and then there's Bengaldom!

(02-11-2018, 06:19 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: True.  When ownership is satisfied with merely decent, and does not actively try to become elite, then Wild Card exits are about the best we can hope for.  Mike Brown will not make the moves necessary at HC and in FA to position the team as a legitimate Super Bowl contender.  The Bengals might make the Playoffs, but no one sees them as a threat to beat the Pats, Steelers, and the Jags if they upgrade QB.

(02-11-2018, 06:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Cincinnati Bengals Football

Commitment to Mediocrity since '91

(Run on your own gas)

Sad and unfortunately spot on.

(02-11-2018, 09:09 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Marvin Lewis lead Bengals have a record of 1 - 5 vs. the Pats and have been flat out gut stomped by them in 3 of those losses ! I'm not going to champion one win as some great accomplishment when ML lead teams regularly spit the bit against any type of good and above competition. 

Moreover Marvin has a record of 8 - 24 vs. the Steelers including a grand total of two wins at PBS ! If you choose to try and spin one of those meaningless wins into some great thing, ok whatever ?

But the majority of us understand the Steelers have made the Bengals into their ***** under ML and regularly take us out behind the woodshed and make us like it. They've beaten and embarrassed us every time it's really mattered !

We at the very least should be splitting with those scumbags.

Cannot believe MB is fine with us always losing to our rival under Marvin Lewis.

It is not a coincidence that Marv is a Steelers fan and we treat them different than other teams.

(02-12-2018, 12:38 PM)grampahol Wrote: I dunno..I've personally accomplished not being the worst at many things in the past. In fact my list of not being the worst at things far exceeds my list of things I'm the best at.

YEY at not being the worst at certain things.. Some people just want to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat..and then there's Bengaldom!

You are a funny guy Gramps.

(02-12-2018, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sad and unfortunately spot on.


We at the very least should be splitting with those scumbags.

Cannot believe MB is fine with us always losing to our rival under Marvin Lewis.

It is not a coincidence that Marv is a Steelers fan and we treat them different than other teams.

Marv is like the coach from the waterboy when he see's tomlin on the other sideline..

(02-12-2018, 10:10 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I know you love to argue, but I don't think this is the time to dig in your heels.

Dig in my heels?

By not looking for some way to crap on and discredit our victory against the Patriots?

Really?

(02-12-2018, 03:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dig in my heels?

By not looking for some way to crap on and discredit our victory against the Patriots?

Really?

You do you, man. I'm not going to drag this on. If that's what you took from that, then you're right in your mind and that's fine by me.

(01-29-2018, 10:46 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He was a workout warrior who benched 225 42 times but was slow footed and short armed . He was a reach in the 4th round n definitely not an excellent draft pick  .  He is straight garbage.   He just doesn't have it

...and you may well be correct! I’m anxious to see what Frank Pollack can do with Russell Bodine. If he is indeed “straight garbage” we’ll soon find out. I’ll just posit this for thought: I’ve never seen an offensive lineman who Paul Alexander couldn’t remove their innate ability.

(02-17-2018, 10:25 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and you may well be correct!  I’m anxious to see what Frank Pollack can do with Russell Bodine.  If he is indeed “straight garbage” we’ll soon find out.  I’ll just posit this for thought:  I’ve never seen an offensive lineman who Paul Alexander couldn’t remove their innate ability.

Totally disagree about PA.  He needed to be gone, but give credit where it is due.  

He developed a lot of excellent to great o-linemen in his time here, some of the greatest in the team's history.  Willie, Levi, Steinbach, Whitworth, Smith, Zeitler, Boling, etc all came about under PA.  The 05 line was among the best in the league, and the group was pretty good in the early years of the Dalton era as well.  

I get that he screwed up in a major way on talent eval over the last 4 years.  The Bodine pick was a huge mistake that they may (inexplicably) choose to continue to pay for.  The Fisher/Ogbuehi draft was a nail in the coffin.  IMO he tried to get cute and go away from they traditional Bengal OT prototype, i.e. the powerful, massive player that general stocked the spot for the last 2 decades with relative to great success.  He was probably trying to evolve to fit a more passing-oriented NFL, but he botched it big time by picking soft players.  This was a fireable offense that cost him his credibility even with the sometimes illogically loyal family.

Also, I hope and pray that I never find out what Pollack can do with Bodine.  Let him suck it up on someone else's line.  He's had his chance here.  Replacement-level player if there ever was one.  There's no way to sugar coat or excuse his return.  He and Ogbuehi should both be purged as they bring nothing tangible to help the offense.  Since it's the Bengals and there's no chance they cut both sunken costs, I'll be happy to just see the one with the expired contract let go.  Baby steps.

(02-17-2018, 10:25 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...and you may well be correct!  I’m anxious to see what Frank Pollack can do with Russell Bodine.  If he is indeed “straight garbage” we’ll soon find out.  I’ll just posit this for thought:  I’ve never seen an offensive lineman who Paul Alexander couldn’t remove their innate ability.

Everybody has their own superpowers. 

(02-17-2018, 11:46 AM)samhain Wrote: Totally disagree about PA.  He needed to be gone, but give credit where it is due.  

He developed a lot of excellent to great o-linemen in his time here, some of the greatest in the team's history.  Willie, Levi, Steinbach, Whitworth, Smith, Zeitler, Boling, etc all came about under PA.  The 05 line was among the best in the league, and the group was pretty good in the early years of the Dalton era as well.  

I get that he screwed up in a major way on talent eval over the last 4 years.  The Bodine pick was a huge mistake that they may (inexplicably) choose to continue to pay for.  The Fisher/Ogbuehi draft was a nail in the coffin.  IMO he tried to get cute and go away from they traditional Bengal OT prototype, i.e. the powerful, massive player that general stocked the spot for the last 2 decades with relative to great success.  He was probably trying to evolve to fit a more passing-oriented NFL, but he botched it big time by picking soft players.  This was a fireable offense that cost him his credibility even with the sometimes illogically loyal family.

This is my exact take on PA.  Very good coach for a long time.  But his recent performance was a major reason this team has struggled so badly the last two years.

(02-17-2018, 12:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is my exact take on PA.  Very good coach for a long time.  But his recent performance was a major reason this team has struggled so badly the last two years.

Yep.  It's not like he was totally getting by on being favored by the family.  He got results.  Rarely did they spend a high pick on an offensive tackle that didn't meet or exceed expectations.  You could say Andre, but he wasn't a bad player by any stretch, he just lacked discipline and professionalism.  If I had to come up with something the organization was consistently good at before 15, I'd probably say finding really good OTs and developing them.

The 15 draft was a departure and an extremely costly one for PA and the team in general.  

(02-17-2018, 11:46 AM)samhain Wrote: Totally disagree about PA.  He needed to be gone, but give credit where it is due.  

He developed a lot of excellent to great o-linemen in his time here, some of the greatest in the team's history.  Willie, Levi, Steinbach, Whitworth, Smith, Zeitler, Boling, etc all came about under PA.  The 05 line was among the best in the league, and the group was pretty good in the early years of the Dalton era as well.  

I get that he screwed up in a major way on talent eval over the last 4 years.  The Bodine pick was a huge mistake that they may (inexplicably) choose to continue to pay for.  The Fisher/Ogbuehi draft was a nail in the coffin.  IMO he tried to get cute and go away from they traditional Bengal OT prototype, i.e. the powerful, massive player that general stocked the spot for the last 2 decades with relative to great success.  He was probably trying to evolve to fit a more passing-oriented NFL, but he botched it big time by picking soft players.  This was a fireable offense that cost him his credibility even with the sometimes illogically loyal family.

Also, I hope and pray that I never find out what Pollack can do with Bodine.  Let him suck it up on someone else's line.  He's had his chance here.  Replacement-level player if there ever was one.  There's no way to sugar coat or excuse his return.  He and Ogbuehi should both be purged as they bring nothing tangible to help the offense.  Since it's the Bengals and there's no chance they cut both sunken costs, I'll be happy to just see the one with the expired contract let go.  Baby steps.

Agree with a lot said here but not sure PA deserves a ton of credit on these players listed. 

Big Willie…… (one of my all time favs) was already an all american coming out of HS, drafted 10th overall in NFL and was the very 1st T taken in draft. He basically had his choice of Tackles coming out. 

Levi Jones….. another player drafted with 10th overall pick and was 3rd T taken that year. 

Whit….. fell to 55th pick but was still the 4th T taken off the board and not given up a sack in last 22 games in the SEC. Know I was excited he was coming. 

Steinbach….. 33rd overall pick but was the very 1st G off the board that year and was Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year. 

Andre Smith…… 6th overall player taken, highest of all listed and was 2nd T taken in draft. Seemed to play great in contract years but just go through the motions at times.  

Clint Boling….. willing to give him this one being the 101st player taken, but was still the 4th G taken that year.

Do not consider the top guys in their class as developmental players.  Yet still agree with many other things said. 

Guess what I am saying is that I just can not get behind PA as a great coach.

(02-17-2018, 01:16 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree with a lot said here but not sure PA deserves a ton of credit on these players listed. 

Big Willie…… (one of my all time favs) was already an all american coming out of HS, drafted 10th overall in NFL and was the very 1st T taken in draft. He basically had his choice of Tackles coming out. 

Levi Jones….. another player drafted with 10th overall pick and was 3rd T taken that year. 

Whit….. fell to 55th pick but was still the 4th T taken off the board and not given up a sack in last 22 games in the SEC. Know I was excited he was coming. 

Steinbach….. 33rd overall pick but was the very 1st G off the board that year and was Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year. 

Andre Smith…… 6th overall player taken, highest of all listed and was 2nd T taken in draft. Seemed to play great in contract years but just go through the motions at times.  

Clint Boling….. willing to give him this one being the 101st player taken, but was still the 4th G taken that year.

Do not consider the top guys in their class as developmental players.  Yet still agree with many other things said. 

Very well said and those are the success stories. Don't mention the Nasty Nate Livings types that PA pimped up...

(02-17-2018, 02:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Guess what I am saying is that I just can not get behind PA as a great coach.

Nope, never can get behind that notion.

The thing is, all of those linemen listed came out of programs where they were already effectively ready to play. I just look more at a persistent (for years) inability to run the ball especially in short yardage, poor pass protection especially on the interior line, former Bengal OL greats like Munoz and Walter calling out the line's poor technique even before last season, goobers like Livings and Ghiacuc (both of whom Piano Man lobbied for) and so on.

(02-17-2018, 04:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: The thing is, all of those linemen listed came out of programs where they were already effectively ready to play. I just look more at a persistent (for years) inability to run the ball especially in short yardage, poor pass protection especially on the interior line, former Bengal OL greats like Munoz and Walter calling out the line's poor technique even before last season, goobers like Livings and Ghiacuc (both of whom Piano Man lobbied for) and so on.

PA has always needed polished players for success.

This is why he might actually do well in Dallas with all those polished Lineman, but look out if injuries occur...