(03-23-2018, 09:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Rivers wasnt good before that and he wasnt good after that. He was actually awful. 

Yes 100%, esp when we wasted a Top 10 pick on him!

Why do we never get LB right? Why do we never get C right? Why did we never get S right? We did we never get TE right?

The answer is simple - we don't put resources into it. We were terrible at TE until we drafted Gresham, Eifert etc. We finally spent some high picks and some money on it.

We struggled at S until we traded for Nelson and managed to get lucky with Iloka.

The same holds true for C and LB. When is the last time we spent a high pick on either (and I'm talking 1st or 2nd rounder?) Sure, we got lucky with Burfict, but the rest have been pretty hit and miss.

(03-26-2018, 04:13 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why do we never get LB right?  Why do we never get C right?  Why did we never get S right?  We did we never get TE right?

The answer is simple - we don't put resources into it.  We were terrible at TE until we drafted Gresham, Eifert etc.  We finally spent some high picks and some money on it.

We struggled at S until we traded for Nelson and managed to get lucky with Iloka.

The same holds true for C and LB.  When is the last time we spent a high pick on either (and I'm talking 1st or 2nd rounder?)  Sure, we got lucky with Burfict, but the rest have been pretty hit and miss.

Well in the end you have to coach these guys up cause the Draft is a crapshoot.

I don't remember when we had a good LB coach, Guenther never did anything decent with any of his players besides Burfict
and Burfict was special. Alexander was a terrible line coach and thought he could coach up Bodine into something special which
he never was. PA always needed polished players to work with and i think the same goes for Haslett.

I hope we have a start to the Draft like this, Rashaan Evans/Frank Ragnow or Billy Price/Leighton Vander Esche for these very
reasons. Pollack might be able to coach up a mid tier Center unlike PA but i don't want to take that gamble and he had Travis
Frederick to work with in Dallas. He needs to Draft his guy here.

(03-27-2018, 03:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well in the end you have to coach these guys up cause the Draft is a crapshoot.

I don't remember when we had a good LB coach, Guenther never did anything decent with any of his players besides Burfict
and Burfict was special. Alexander was a terrible line coach and thought he could coach up Bodine into something special which
he never was. PA always needed polished players to work with and i think the same goes for Haslett.

I hope we have a start to the Draft like this, Rashaan Evans/Frank Ragnow or Billy Price/Leighton Vander Esche for these very
reasons. Pollack might be able to coach up a mid tier Center unlike PA but i don't want to take that gamble and he had Travis
Frederick to work with in Dallas. He needs to Draft his guy here.

Coaching does play a part, but you can't expect a coach to coach up mid-late round draft picks and expect the same results as the others when they are playing with better athletes/prospects.

(03-27-2018, 03:37 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Coaching does play a part, but you can't expect a coach to coach up mid-late round draft picks and expect the same results as the others when they are playing with better athletes/prospects.

I agree, not arguing with that which is why i said what i said. Haslett and Pollack need some good prospects to work with.

Don't like hearing from Jim O that we are not looking at LB until the mid rounds. I have more faith in other coaches than Haslett.

(03-26-2018, 10:21 AM)corpjet Wrote: Yes 100%, esp when we wasted a Top 10 pick on him!

*sigh*

No, 100% the opposite.

People have bad/selective memories.

I mentioned it last week, but during the Owner meetings this week Lewis has said they plan to use Carl Lawson in the base more at LB. I alluded to it earlier that he can play SAM in the base package as well as DE in the nickle package. I think you'll see him occasionally line up at MLB too from time to time to add extra pressure up the middle. I really like the move, he doesn't have to be great in coverage just able to make it into the flat and sit in hook zones.

Does Lawson's official move to LB in base D, take away our need for LB? Hope not (Lawson didn't look all that good in his limited time at LB due to injury). But definitely takes away a LB pick early in the draft.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/03/27/cincinnati-bengals-defensive-changes-feature-carl-lawson-corners-william-jackson-darqueze-dennard/461964002/

(03-28-2018, 12:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mentioned it last week, but during the Owner meetings this week Lewis has said they plan to use Carl Lawson in the base more at LB. I alluded to it earlier that he can play SAM in the base package as well as DE in the nickle package. I think you'll see him occasionally line up at MLB too from time to time to add extra pressure up the middle. I really like the move, he doesn't have to be great in coverage just able to make it into the flat and sit in hook zones.

As a pass rusher Lawson can definately shed blocks, want to see him shed blocks and tackle the RB behind the LOS.

It will definately help this Defense tons if he can play SAM for real at times and not purely as a pass rusher.

(03-28-2018, 01:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Does Lawson's official move to LB in base D, take away our need for LB? Hope not (Lawson didn't look all that good in his limited time at LB due to injury). But definitely takes away a LB pick early in the draft.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/03/27/cincinnati-bengals-defensive-changes-feature-carl-lawson-corners-william-jackson-darqueze-dennard/461964002/

Maybe this is why Jim O has been saying we won't be interested in a LB until the mid rounds unless something crazy
happens and Edmunds falls to 21 or something.

(03-28-2018, 01:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Does Lawson's official move to LB in base D, take away our need for LB? Hope not (Lawson didn't look all that good in his limited time at LB due to injury). But definitely takes away a LB pick early in the draft.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/03/27/cincinnati-bengals-defensive-changes-feature-carl-lawson-corners-william-jackson-darqueze-dennard/461964002/

I think it all depends on how they view Burfict's long term viability.

(03-23-2018, 09:21 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I mean, seriously? Other than Vontez Burfict (who is constantly suspended or injured) and Dhani Jones, who was the last good linebacker the Bengals had?

How do we continue to whiff on guys in the draft and free agency?

Nick Vigil
Karlos Dansby
Kevin Minter
Rey Malaluga (he had a couple decent years)
Jayson Dimanche
Marquis Flowers
Emmanual Lamur
Vinny Ray
Manny Lawson
Brandon Johnson
Dan Skuta
Keith Rivers
Thomas Howard
Rodrick Muckelroy
Rashad Jeanty


In 10 years I can honestly say that Dhani Jones and Vontez are the only respectably GOOD linebackers that the Bengals have had. Linebacker shouldnt be that hard of a position to constantly screw up on. I want some butts!

most of those guys were late round backers... or UDFA's or aging vets.  we haven't invested a lot at the position. and you get what you pay for.

(03-28-2018, 01:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As a pass rusher Lawson can definately shed blocks, want to see him shed blocks and tackle the RB behind the LOS.

It will definately help this Defense tons if he can play SAM for real at times and not purely as a pass rusher.


Maybe this is why Jim O has been saying we won't be interested in a LB until the mid rounds unless something crazy
happens and Edmunds falls to 21 or something.

Lawson is not a 4 3 OLB. he's totally lost in space .  terrible terrible idea.. leave him as a DE and let him do his thing , rushing the passer

(03-28-2018, 01:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Does Lawson's official move to LB in base D, take away our need for LB? Hope not (Lawson didn't look all that good in his limited time at LB due to injury). But definitely takes away a LB pick early in the draft.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/03/27/cincinnati-bengals-defensive-changes-feature-carl-lawson-corners-william-jackson-darqueze-dennard/461964002/

Looks like Lewis is still searching for his Peter Boulware type. Pollack and Lawson didn’t pan out for different reasons, let’s hope it goes better with Lawson.

(03-28-2018, 03:24 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Lawson is not a 4 3 OLB. he's totally lost in space .  terrible terrible idea.. leave him as a DE and let him do his thing , rushing the passer

(03-28-2018, 05:43 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Looks like Lewis is still searching for his Peter Boulware type. Pollack and Lawson didn’t pan out for different reasons, let’s hope it goes better with Lawson.

I can see them using the single gap odd man fronts that are becoming popular.

(03-28-2018, 03:24 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Lawson is not a 4 3 OLB. he's totally lost in space .  terrible terrible idea.. leave him as a DE and let him do his thing , rushing the passer

Yeah, just sucks cause teams will always know how we are going to use him. Would be nice if he could do something else,
but it sure is nice that he is a great pass rusher. These players are rare.

My guess is he will be used like Vic Beasley in a 4-3 under front very similar to what Seattle has ran for years with guys Like Bruce Irvin. It doesn't mean the other team automatically knows what we are doing, and it doesn't mean he needs to be super in coverage to be effective at it. He will be fine as a SAM. If you see what they said about running more press man this season it makes sense because often times the SS rolls down similar to Kam Chancellor and plays as an extra safety splitting the Box and the secondary. All of this tells me we are going to run a version of what Seattle and Atlanta have done to take advantage of stopping the run and playing physical coverage on the outside.

(03-29-2018, 04:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: My guess is he will be used like Vic Beasley in a 4-3 under front very similar to what Seattle has ran for years with guys Like Bruce Irvin. It doesn't mean the other team automatically knows what we are doing, and it doesn't mean he needs to be super in coverage to be effective at it. He will be fine as a SAM. If you see what they said about running more press man this season it makes sense because often times the SS rolls down similar to Kam Chancellor and plays as an extra safety splitting the Box and the secondary. All of this tells me we are going to run a version of what Seattle and Atlanta have done to take advantage of stopping the run and playing physical coverage on the outside.

All this sounds good to me. I like.