(04-14-2018, 08:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed.  And what of Tyreek Hill?  A smaller burner at KC that has been outstanding.  He ran a 4.24, I believe, and it just goes to show you what an offensive mind can do with speed like that.  

That dude is something else and like Fred says here took a year for him to develop into the player he is.

Not as good of a route runner was either. Hill was a RB.

(04-14-2018, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is why Brandon Cooks, Keenan Allen, and Marvin Jones have been flops, right?  Can't be a good WR if you played in the PAC 12.

(04-14-2018, 01:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hill has been healthy and he is an incredible talent, but his rookie season he was not stretching the defense at all.  In fact he averaged less than 10 yards per reception (9.7).

So even an "offensive mind" took a year to develop Hill into a downfield receiver.

:andy:

(04-14-2018, 01:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 4.41 at the combine

Kind of surprised Coles ran that fast, looked slow as molasses in his one year here.

(04-14-2018, 03:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That dude is something else and like Fred says here took a year for him to develop into the player he is.

Not as good of a route runner was either. Hill was a RB.





:andy:


Kind of surprised Coles ran that fast, looked slow as molasses in his one year here.

http://www.gridironstuds.com/blog/the-fastest-40-yard-dash-ever/

(04-14-2018, 01:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hill has been healthy and he is an incredible talent, but his rookie season he was not stretching the defense at all.  In fact he averaged less than 10 yards per reception (9.7).

So even an "offensive mind" took a year to develop Hill into a downfield receiver.

Yeah, maybe, or maybe that same offensive mind was finding another way to get the ball in to his playmaker's hands?  In 2016, his rookie season, Hill rushed 24 times for 267 yards, a staggering 11.1 ypc average, and 3 TDs.  He also had a long rush of 70 yards.  

And Ross doesn't have to just be a downfield receiver.  Screens, slants, etc are a great low-risk way to get the ball in his hands.  I loved when Hue would do the bunch formation with a TE and two WRs on one side and AJ Green on the other side.  If you have a big WR like Malone or Core and a TE like Kroft blocking for Ross on a quick hitter, it could turn in to a big play on a one-yard pass.  

(04-13-2018, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Forty times and stats from ProFootballReference.com

Over the last 18 years ('00-'17) there have been a total of 10 WRs who ran the forty in 4.30 or faster at the combine.  

Five of the ten never had a single season with 500 receiving yards, and 2 more only had a single season.  Only 1 of them (Donte Stallworth) had more than 2 seasons with at least 500 receiving yards.  

In 45 combined NFL seasons they only produced 11 seasons with 500+ yards.

Not a single one of them ever had a 1000 season.  

The 10 WRs only produced 3 seasons with as many as 900 receiving yards (Stallworth '05, Darrius Heyward Bay '11, Marquise Goodwin '17).

8 of the 10 were listed at less than 6 feet tall, and the two that were at least 6 feet tall (Stallworth, Heyward Bay) accounted for two of the three 900 yd seasons and seven of the eleven 500+ yard seasons.


 

How about Calvin Johnson and Desean Jackson, both ran a 4.35. I know thats not a 4.3 or faster, but I think fast guys can have success. Thats not to say that there isn't some merit to these stats. We have seen quite a few guys under 6 feet have great success in this league. Steve Smith ran a 4.39, which IMO is still pretty damn fast, and you could argue he was the most exciting receiver to watch in the 00's. He even led the ENTIRE league in yards one year, if I remember correct. I think short and fast guys can do fine, just depends on if they are more than a 9 route guy. Guys with one good route, better do it amazing if they want to have success. Hopefully, John Ross falls closer to Steve Smith, than he does Heybey.

(04-14-2018, 03:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That dude is something else and like Fred says here took a year for him to develop into the player he is.

Not as good of a route runner was either. Hill was a RB.





:andy:


Kind of surprised Coles ran that fast, looked slow as molasses in his one year here.

Coles was at End of Career when we rented him for a season

(04-16-2018, 01:57 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: Steve Smith ran a 4.39, which IMO is still pretty damn fast, and you could argue he was the most exciting receiver to watch in the 00's.

I can't say "most exciting" for sure, but he was pound-for-pound the toughest son of a ***** in the league.

And in '12 we made the playoffs when our #2 WR was 5'7".

Even though we used a first round pick on him Ross does not have to be our #1 WR.  He can be VERY valuable to the entire offense even if he doesn't have a 1000 yds.  Marvin Jones's best season with the Bengals was only 816 yds, but look what he did for our offense in '15.

(04-14-2018, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is why Brandon Cooks, Keenan Allen, and Marvin Jones have been flops, right?  Can't be a good WR if you played in the PAC 12.

Not what I said, not even what I meant, and you know it.

Besides Marvin Jones was a steal as was Keenan Allen.

(04-16-2018, 06:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can't say "most exciting" for sure, but he was pound-for-pound the toughest son of a ***** in the league.

And in '12 we made the playoffs when our #2 WR was 5'7".

Even though we used a first round pick on him Ross does not have to be our #1 WR.  He can be VERY valuable to the entire offense even if he doesn't have a 1000 yds.  Marvin Jones's best season with the Bengals was only 816 yds, but look what he did for our offense in '15.

You are correct, Ross doesn't have to be our #1 WR.

But, being the 9th overall pick, can't we at least expect him to beat out Boyd, Malone or Erickson for some playing time as the #5 WR?

Before we start talking about him being a #1 or #2 or even a #3 WR on the team doesn't he need to out play someone first? Maybe one and all are forgetting that even when healthy he barely earned being active. He played in 3 games, but was a healthy inactive for at least that many other games. People will see that he played in 3 games and think he was injured for 13 games. But that's not the case at all. he didn't get in done in practice sufficiently for Marv to put him on the active roster, so the team just left him at home.

(04-16-2018, 08:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You are correct, Ross doesn't have to be our #1 WR.

But, being the 9th overall pick, can't we at least expect him to beat out Boyd, Malone or Erickson for some playing time as the #5 WR?

Before we start talking about him being a #1 or #2 or even a #3 WR on the team doesn't he need to out play someone first? Maybe one and all are forgetting that even when healthy he barely earned being active. He played in 3 games, but was a healthy inactive for at least that many other games. People will see that he played in 3 games and think he was injured for 13 games. But that's not the case at all. he didn't get in done in practice sufficiently for Marv to put him on the active roster, so the team just left him at home.

Ross admitted that he was dealing with a bad shoulder injury that he tried to hide all year.  He did not admit it to the coaches until he decided it was getting worse instead of better.  That was when he was placed on IR.

I fully expect Ross to be one of our top 3 WRs this year if he is healthy.  Hopefully #2 behind only Green.

(04-17-2018, 01:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross admitted that he was dealing with a bad shoulder injury that he tried to hide all year.  He did not admit it to the coaches until he decided it was getting worse instead of better.  That was when he was placed on IR.

I fully expect Ross to be one of our top 3 WRs this year if he is healthy.  Hopefully #2 behind only Green.

I hope he is too. But the boy is going to have to show he can do it before I'll believe it. He's going to have to keep himself healthy and train correctly if he wants to make it. Between last year and the two season prior at Washington he's only had 1 healthy season. If fact in those 3 years he's only had a catch in 1 of them.

(04-16-2018, 08:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You are correct, Ross doesn't have to be our #1 WR.

But, being the 9th overall pick, can't we at least expect him to beat out Boyd, Malone or Erickson for some playing time as the #5 WR?

Before we start talking about him being a #1 or #2 or even a #3 WR on the team doesn't he need to out play someone first? Maybe one and all are forgetting that even when healthy he barely earned being active. He played in 3 games, but was a healthy inactive for at least that many other games. People will see that he played in 3 games and think he was injured for 13 games. But that's not the case at all. he didn't get in done in practice sufficiently for Marv to put him on the active roster, so the team just left him at home.

A starting WR who knows the system missing camp (non contact entire camp) is bad for them. A rookie who missed rookie camp and no contact camp is a disaster. Why? If he can't compete in anything contact, he misses 50% of his reps and gets zero against live contact?

I understand he has to prove it, but I say give him a shot versus bashing him for 2017. I think a healthy John Ross in a new offense could be very exciting for the team. The old saying you can't teach speed applies, Ross is in rare company with his speed and his ability to run routes already. I believe TJ's work will also pay off for Ross.