i dont want to get rid of Tobin by any means
but its time those draft picks under the age of 25 26 need to start delievering results
Lawson and Jackson are trending upward
we cant afford to wait 3 to 4 years to see if a guy can produce at a high level
guys like Ross Boyd Billings need to really take it to another level.this year
the AJs Andy Genos And Carlos's will deliever
but 2018 will be defined by the growth of those guys under 25 26

(05-18-2018, 11:10 AM)impactplaya Wrote: i dont want to get rid of Tobin by any means
but its time those draft picks under the age of 25 26 need to start delievering results
Lawson and Jackson are trending upward
we cant afford to wait 3 to 4 years to see if a guy can produce at a high level
guys like Ross Boyd Billings need to really take it to another level.this year
the AJs Andy Genos And Carlos's will deliever
but 2018 will be defined by the growth of those guys under 25 26

I find this recent 2018 Bengals Draft class to be a good one. I'm encouraged by what they just did in the Draft.

Add to it the Trade Down for Cordy Glenn and the Bengals not taking a questionable character guy like Arden Key when they easily could have.

I'd keep Tobin around based on what just happened this past offseason.

(05-17-2018, 06:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Every team has busts.

They do...but when our team refuses to use free agency, we can't afford a string of bad drafts.

At this point, I think the Bengals addressed their biggest problems from last year. Glenn, Brown, and Baker filled clear needs based on development (or lack thereof) for the young guys behind them. Price addressed C well. The rest of the draft picks were for needed depth, and for the most part I think they were good picks.

They are reliant on their young WRs and young OL on the right side to emerge this year. If not, I expect those positions will be addressed early in next year's draft.
On defense, they addressed LB and DT with quality veterans. They drafted mid-round players for depth purposes. They need some of these young guys at LB and DT to emerge though too since Brown and Baker were both 1-year deals. If they don't and Brown and/or Baker are not brought back, expect the Bengals to also address these positions next offseason.

(05-18-2018, 11:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: At this point, I think the Bengals addressed the two biggest problems. Glenn, Brown, and Baker filled clear needs based on development (or lack thereof) for the young guys behind them. Price addressed C well. The rest of the draft picks were for needed depth, and for the most part I think they were good picks.

They are reliant on their young WRs and young OL on the right side to emerge this year. If not, I expect those positions will be addressed early in next year's draft.
On defense, they addressed LB and DT with quality veterans. They drafted mid-round players for depth purposes. They need some of these young guys at LB and DT to emerge though too since Brown and Baker were both 1-year deals. If they don't and Brown and/or Baker are not brought back, expect the Bengals to also address these positions next offseason.

I think the Roster has improved enough to make Coaching the real issue in 2018.

The Coaches have enough to work with now.  IMO

(05-18-2018, 12:00 PM)depthchart Wrote: I think the Roster has improved enough to make Coaching the real issue in 2018.

The Coaches have enough to work with now.  IMO

Yep, and they replaced arguably the worst coach on the team too with someone a lot of people are confident in.
IMO Haslett needs to be gone after this year if the LBs struggle yet again.

(05-18-2018, 12:02 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I get the feeling, but the moves they made recently are voids left over from their mistakes. I know we can't keep every player and it's better than it used to be when players couldn't wait to get outa town. letting Whit go was a mistake that we hope is fixed with Glenn. Zeitler I won't use cause he was wanting too much but I would rather have him than Swagger. Nelson was a loss we yet to fill, Mo and M.Jones are still hurting us till one of these young WR's steps up. We are getting deep at a few positions and it's nice to see that we are trying to fix some of the problems by means other than just the draft. But these young players do need to step it up.

If we sign him the year before - and before the DeCastro signing - for something in the ball park of what they thought DeCastro was going to get, I think we don't get raked over the coals.  Then sign Whit the following offseason, frontloading his contract but giving him his due and signing him for more than one year.   Then we sign Glenn and draft Price and we have a really good offensive line.

We can't sign everyone I know.  But getting at least Whit, Jones and Nelson would have made a significant difference.

And the draft is a crap shoot, but no one but Alexander seemed to be drooling over Ogbuehi. 

(05-18-2018, 09:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is correct that when a team depends almost entirely on the draft then they have to hit on every draft.  The '15 draft was a complete bust.  that one draft ended up derailing our plans for the last two seasons.

However it is incorrect to say that all of our recent drafts have been busts.  I'd say they have been as good as most other teams in the league.  So there is no need to get rid of Tobin.

When you consider how weak we are in free agency you have to admit that either Tobin was elite at selecting players or our coaches were elite at developing them in order for us to make the playoffs 5 years in a row.  We accomplished that while having our hands tied behind our back during free agency.

The 5 year run of playoffs was set up by 5 years of great drafting (Hall, Whit, Dunlap, Atkins, Peko, Smith, Maulauga, Gresham, Johnson, Simpson). Then Green, Dalton and Boling in 2011 to start the run.

Then 2012 cemented the run by getting Dre, Zeitler, Sanu and Jones.

Although 2015 hasn't panned out yet, but there is hope for Fisher and Billings still.

The recent downturn isn't related to drafting poorly. The issue is related to not retaining the talent that's drafted and developed.

But I'm just stating the obvious here.  

The Bengals have an entire roster of potential impact players — but not enough impact coaches.

(05-20-2018, 12:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals have an entire roster of potential impact players — but not enough impact coaches.

The biggest mistake we have made was not promoting Zimmer. I was one saying he would not be successful but I was wrong. Players pour their hearts and souls out for that man while Marvin claims it's not his job to motivate players.

(05-20-2018, 12:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals have an entire roster of potential impact players — but not enough impact coaches.

Well we got a bunch of new ones let’s see if they can carry Marvin like others have been able to do (to some extent).

(05-17-2018, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The draft is what it is, a crapshoot.  Some years, you might get lucky and hit well on a handful of picks that pan out to be starters.  Other years, you might get lucky to have a player or two on the roster, 5 years down the road.  

The important thing to remember is that the draft is only one part of building a team.  Free Agency, Trades, and UDFA signings all come into play to complete the equation.  

FWIW, this is the first time in a long time that I actually feel like the Bengals did a good job utilizing ALL of the tools available in order to improve the roster stock.

the "trade down" w/ the Bills really bailed us out this draft....
Getting Glenn was HUGE....
allowed us to go OC at 21....
O-line should be at least average....if not slightly above average....

(05-20-2018, 02:43 AM)XsandOs Wrote: The 5 year run of playoffs was set up by 5 years of great drafting (Hall, Whit, Dunlap, Atkins, Peko, Smith, Maulauga, Gresham, Johnson, Simpson). Then Green, Dalton and Boling in 2011 to start the run.

Then 2012 cemented the run by getting Dre, Zeitler, Sanu and Jones.

Although 2015 hasn't panned out yet, but there is hope for Fisher and Billings still.

The recent downturn isn't related to drafting poorly. The issue is related to not retaining the talent that's drafted and developed.

But I'm just stating the obvious here.  

I think our recent downturn is bad draft related....
drafting Ced & Fisher has killed us 2 years in a row.....
b/c if your O-line sucks your team sucks too.....
too many 3 & outs....punt, punt, punt....

(05-20-2018, 10:20 PM)Steve Wrote: the "trade down" w/ the Bills really bailed us out this draft....
Getting Glenn was HUGE....
allowed us to go OC at 21....
O-line should be at least average....if not slightly above average....

Yes, they made some uncharacteristically smart moves this offseason.  Personally, I'm happy with the direction they are turning.

(05-20-2018, 02:43 AM)XsandOs Wrote: The 5 year run of playoffs was set up by 5 years of great drafting (Hall, Whit, Dunlap, Atkins, Peko, Smith, Maulauga, Gresham, Johnson, Simpson). Then Green, Dalton and Boling in 2011 to start the run.

Then 2012 cemented the run by getting Dre, Zeitler, Sanu and Jones.

Although 2015 hasn't panned out yet, but there is hope for Fisher and Billings still.

The recent downturn isn't related to drafting poorly. The issue is related to not retaining the talent that's drafted and developed.

But I'm just stating the obvious here.  

I think you mean 2016 hasn't panned out. 2015 is taking a turn for one of the worst drafts in team history. 

(05-21-2018, 12:41 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I think you mean 2016 hasn't panned out. 2015 is taking a turn for one of the worst drafts in team history. 

Lets hope Ced and Fisher deliver this year and Kroft continues with his trajectory.

If we get two solid starters from 2015, it will make it more palatable.

I think the hope was that Ced becomes the next Levi Jones. The problem is that the A&M offensive scheme fooled the NFL as a whole in grading their Tackles - thus; Joeckel, Matthews and Ced.....

(05-17-2018, 06:36 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im looking around the league at players like Joey Bosa
Todd Gurley Marshawn Lattimore JuJu Smith Schuster
Kareem Hunt Stefan Diggs....
whats the common thread all under the age of 25 and are impact players...difference makers...franchise cornerstones....
simply put the Bengals past drafts of recent memory has this team stuck in the proverbial mud.
back to back 7 and 9 seasons. hooray.
yeah Duke Tobin has hit on a couple BUT NOT ENOUGH. HIS MISSES ARE HURTING THE FRANCHISE
Jackson and Lawson look like future game changers
but turn the page
Vigil fail
Ogebughi super fail
Fisher fail
Malone incomplete
Core fail
Kroft better than average
i not gonna name off every draft pick over 4 years time but you get my point
for a franchise who mantra is draft and develop
its sputtering like Briggs and Stratton lawn mower from 1979.
its time for these young guys to produce or sit the bench
look at Pittsbugh...getting production and impact from Watt Schuster Davis heck even Jesse James
etc etc
the future is now.
the.Tobin honeymoon is done its a wrap.homies

Duke has played a big role in the turn around of this team over the last decade. Just because he had a run of shitty draft picks doesnt mean that he's lost his touch. He's a good guy to have in our front office, why else would he be fielding calls to interview for teams open GM spots almost every off season.

What really holds em back is they get Gerber Syndrom every time they make the playoffs.. And just like the team at playoff time Gerber Syndrome is from the horror/sci-fi genre.. Fortunately for us Gerber syndrome is Italian with subtitles.. We won't get it without subscribing to certain streaming services.. It's actually one of the very few good Italian movies worth watching. 

mike Browns adopted son and spy on the field..our Assistant Head Coach, Paul Alexander, is gone..big move in the right direction..along with guenther..

fix the offensive line..think they have done...team should do well

(05-20-2018, 10:20 PM)Steve Wrote: the "trade down" w/ the Bills really bailed us out this draft....
Getting Glenn was HUGE....
allowed us to go OC at 21....
O-line should be at least average....if not slightly above average....

Trading up from Paul Alexander to Frank Pollack was beyond my wildest dreams.