(08-20-2018, 07:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You have a lot of things backwards Jake. First off, Reggie even said he played better here cause it was in more of a
Free Safety role. Why do you think he was the jack of all trades and George was not? He was the FS and George was
the younger big Safety you could not throw over the top of. George sure wasn't the field General calling the plays out
there. Get out of here with that man, George was young and the team thought he could take the next step and be
the field General, he could not plain and simple and fell off a cliff trying to do so.

Bates is much more instinctual, Fej can do what Iloka did if we need it and is our ST's captain. Brandon Wilson has
just been making plays at Safety all Offseason and Training Camp. We are good at Safety especially since we have
Shaw who is our swiss army knife back there and Shawn who i am sure will still play Nickel LB at times.

I think they also like Trayvon Henderson, the UFA from Hawaii.

Shawn Williams next?

(08-20-2018, 04:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm still pissed about this. Bates is no upgrade. Not this year anyway. Wrong Safety was cut, but this front office was never mistaken for one that knows what they are doing. We are suddenly very weak at the position with a bunch of unknowns and a player who never earned his stripes before he mistakenly got extended, and can't stay healthy.

Exactly, this is the hamster on the wheel team. Five years from now, we will reset again and 'go younger' and Bates will leave via FA or be cut. I have zero faith this team can properly manage a roster. They can draft but they cannot effectively build a cohesive and consistent team. They are all over the map with overpaying some and letting good ones and either not developing or playing too early. Just not consistent enough overall in this area. 

(08-20-2018, 08:19 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Exactly, this is the hamster on the wheel team. Five years from now, we will reset again and 'go younger' and Bates will leave via FA or be cut. I have zero faith this team can properly manage a roster. They can draft but they cannot effectively build a cohesive and consistent team. They are all over the map with overpaying some and letting good ones and either not developing or playing too early. Just not consistent enough overall in this area. 

If you want a better team, letting mediocre talent go seems like the thing to do.

(08-20-2018, 04:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm still pissed about this. Bates is no upgrade. Not this year anyway. Wrong Safety was cut, but this front office was never mistaken for one that knows what they are doing. We are suddenly very weak at the position with a bunch of unknowns and a player who never earned his stripes before he mistakenly got extended, and can't stay healthy.

Might as well get over the loss of Iloka.  Back when he was drafted, big hitting was still a cool thing in the NFL.  Lately, he had turned into a liability as a penalty attractor.  We only have room for one of those types in today's NFL, and Vontaze is our guy.  Besides, I'm not so sure that between Fedj and Shaw, they don't come up with a duo as equal or better than Iloka and Williams were the past two years, and plan to see steady insertions of Bates.  Bates ain't no joke.

(08-20-2018, 08:05 PM)McC Wrote: I think they also like Trayvon Henderson, the UFA from Hawaii.

Practice Squad dude.

(08-20-2018, 08:06 PM)McC Wrote: Shawn Williams next?

Doubt it, but you never know this year, much different. Hamster on the wheel team lol

Was before this year, but these guys still cannot put it together...

(08-20-2018, 08:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Might as well get over the loss of Iloka.  Back when he was drafted, big hitting was still a cool thing in the NFL.  Lately, he had turned into a liability as a penalty attractor.  We only have room for one of those types in today's NFL, and Vontaze is our guy.  Besides, I'm not so sure that between Fedj and Shaw, they don't come up with a duo as equal or better than Iloka and Williams were the past two years, and plan to see steady insertions of Bates.  Bates ain't no joke.

The game evolves, have to evolve with it.

Those coaches we had last year, namely PA were waaaaayyyyy behind the times, even Paulie G.

I would rather have a Defense that is sacking the QB and picking him off all the time than just going for the big hit
and getting flagged. Now that i think about it, Shawn could be next lol

(08-20-2018, 02:18 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I'll admit, my anti-MB fandom gets in the way of rational thought sometimes. I've never liked him as owner nor will I. So I need to work at trying to separate that when looking at things like this.

He does not have many fans and he has earned that for sure.

(08-20-2018, 07:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You have a lot of things backwards Jake. First off, Reggie even said he played better here cause it was in more of a
Free Safety role. Why do you think he was the jack of all trades and George was not? He was the FS and George was
the younger big Safety you could not throw over the top of. George sure wasn't the field General calling the plays out
there. Get out of here with that man, George was young and the team thought he could take the next step and be
the field General, he could not plain and simple and fell off a cliff trying to do so.

Bates is much more instinctual, Fej can do what Iloka did if we need it and is our ST's captain. Brandon Wilson has
just been making plays at Safety all Offseason and Training Camp. We are good at Safety especially since we have
Shaw who is our swiss army knife back there and Shawn who i am sure will still play Nickel LB at times.

What are you talking about?
 George lined everyone up in the secondary, he played nearly every snap on defense the past two years, bring a physical presence and he did a good job at preventing the deep ball .
 Was George a perennial pro bowl star at safety No. However he did the job that he was asked to. His job wasn't to be a superstar playmaker but instead be the leader of the secondary which he was.

(08-19-2018, 05:33 PM)jason Wrote:
If he gets that clock management thing under control, we'll be in business.

(08-20-2018, 08:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: What are you talking about?
 George lined everyone up in the secondary, he played nearly every snap on defense the past two years, bring a physical presence and he did a good job at preventing the deep ball .
 Was George a perennial pro bowl star at safety No. However he did the job that he was asked to. His job wasn't to be a superstar playmaker but instead be the leader of the secondary which he was.

If you think Iloka was near as good without Reggie Nelson you are crazy Jake.

He clearly fell off once Reggie left and i guess everyone could see it but you.

Reggie was the FS lining up the Secondary when he was here, then Iloka inherited the job and was not near as good.

Nothing against Iloka, i just thought he would of been much better and evidently so did everybody else.

All the best to the man who i used to call George of the Jungle. But this sounds like the right move in todays NFL.

Jessie Bates III is the new breed.

Enough with the ILoka is great already, He was barely average, his reaction time to a play was slow, he goes for big hits vs interceptions or deflections, He plays 40 yards away from the action so his flaws wont get exposed. He was good for one thing, making a tackle after a 25 to 35 yard gain. Cutting him was brilliant, it saved money, sent a strong message to a complacent team, gave a ball hawk (Bates) the keys to the secondary, eliminated defensive penalty liabilities, hopefully helps kill the bengals bend but don't break mentality or should I say let opposing team drive down the field and hold em to a field goal, Iloka was great at this, Now lets get rid of Micheal Johnson who is a complete waste of money and space and we will be good.

(08-20-2018, 08:19 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Exactly, this is the hamster on the wheel team. Five years from now, we will reset again and 'go younger' and Bates will leave via FA or be cut. I have zero faith this team can properly manage a roster. They can draft but they cannot effectively build a cohesive and consistent team. They are all over the map with overpaying some and letting good ones and either not developing or playing too early. Just not consistent enough overall in this area. 

You are contradicting yourself, the very fact that Bates is set to start as a rookie. Iloka was cut and the fact that Lafel was cut, and the youngsters are called for duty says that the Bengals are not on a hamster wheel, one main problem has been the bengals draft a guy but refuse to play him until year 3 or 4, this year we are putting Price, Bates, Ross, Malone ,Jackson 3rd, Willis, Lawson on the field, that's a lot of young players playing which is a shift from normal Marvin Lewis teams. After 16 years he is trying something new  

Just remember Iloka was here during some of the years Zimmer was forced to call up Chris Crocker and put him in the secondary as the "QB". Every year he did that the explosive plays abruptly stopped once he was out there. If Iloka was the QB why was it necessary to get Crocker back?

(08-20-2018, 01:16 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Cordy Glenn was traded for, not signed as a free agent.  Had he been on the open market it’s highly doubtful we get him


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This does not change that after adding the Bills LT, The Bills LB and resigning Eifert, The Bengals then said they would now have to cut money to pay for this, but no problem.  They would not try to keep Bodine, Hill or Pacman. They would get a center in draft, not free agency. They would cut more salaries later, which they have in LaFell and IIoka.  Plus they had a suspension clause on Burficts last contract and Burfict is indeed suspended so Bengals get to put a million to a million and half back in bank that they now don't have to pay Burfict.  So what the Bengals said after the first few days of free agency is holding true.  They felt they over spent, but could get the money back before the season, and they are.  The news is IIoka was simply a salary cut.  The Bengals have not said the 5 year starter wasn't playing well.  All news stories so far point to this being to cut payroll, just as Bengals said they would do back in Winter, cut payroll because they feel they over spent.  That's not me, that's what Bengals said last Winter. They felt they over spent, but could make cuts to get some of this money back.  They feel they needed the LT and LB and feel Eifert was worth paying one more time, but they said salary cuts would be made to off set these moves, and they have been.

(08-20-2018, 09:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If you think Iloka was near as good without Reggie Nelson you are crazy Jake.

He clearly fell off once Reggie left and i guess everyone could see it but you.

Reggie was the FS lining up the Secondary when he was here, then Iloka inherited the job and was not near as good.

Nothing against Iloka, i just thought he would of been much better and evidently so did everybody else.

All the best to the man who i used to call George of the Jungle. But this sounds like the right move in todays NFL.

Jessie Bates III is the new breed.

Dead on.....

Now folks claiming Shaw can step in, in his place? The same Shaw we were all thinking should be cut just last week?

Iloka was a tone setter and brought that to the team. It's no this fault he was played out of position once Reggie left. Now we supposedly have our "Reggie" in Bates, but no Iloka....... Two steps forward 3 back. Williams is the weak link and has never earned his stripes. Never had a season like Iloka, never set the tone like Iloka. We have no one to fight back against the Steelers now. Look for them to batter and abuse the Bengals without much pushback from anyone anymore.

With Burfict out, we have no one to set the tone and the D lacks some serious bite now. That's what's most disappointing. Not good in the AFCN.

We have no depth at Safety and are an injury away from a complete cluster at the position. Not a win now move in my opinion.

(08-21-2018, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Now folks claiming Shaw can step in, in his place? The same Shaw we were all thinking should be cut just last week?

Iloka was a tone setter and brought that to the team. It's no this fault he was played out of position once Reggie left. Now we supposedly have our "Reggie" in Bates, but no Iloka....... Two steps forward 3 back. Williams is the weak link and has never earned his stripes. Never had a season like Iloka, never set the tone like Iloka. We have no one to fight back against the Steelers now. Look for them to batter and abuse the Bengals without much pushback from anyone anymore.  

With Burfict out, we have no one to set the tone and the D lacks some serious bite now. That's what's most disappointing. Not good in the AFCN.

We have no depth at Safety and are an injury away from a complete cluster at the position. Not a win now move in my opinion.

I'm sure you've noticed how this bite of which you speak has been legislated out of the game.  So, no, you don't need that on your defense.  What you need is speed and instincts and play making ability.

Iloka is an okay player and that's about it.  Bates will give you everything Iloka did, at minimum, and has a chance to be a whole lot more than okay.  George is a dinosaur in today's league.  People ***** about not getting better.  Well, if you hold onto okay players, you will never get better.

(08-21-2018, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Now folks claiming Shaw can step in, in his place? The same Shaw we were all thinking should be cut just last week?

Iloka was a tone setter and brought that to the team. It's no this fault he was played out of position once Reggie left. Now we supposedly have our "Reggie" in Bates, but no Iloka....... Two steps forward 3 back. Williams is the weak link and has never earned his stripes. Never had a season like Iloka, never set the tone like Iloka. We have no one to fight back against the Steelers now. Look for them to batter and abuse the Bengals without much pushback from anyone anymore.  

With Burfict out, we have no one to set the tone and the D lacks some serious bite now. That's what's most disappointing. Not good in the AFCN.

We have no depth at Safety and are an injury away from a complete cluster at the position. Not a win now move in my opinion.

Shaw's not taking his place... At most hes a backup Saftey and CB

if bates out played him why pay him to sit the bench

(08-21-2018, 10:33 AM)McC Wrote: I'm sure you've noticed how this bite of which you speak has been legislated out of the game.  So, no, you don't need that on your defense.  What you need is speed and instincts and play making ability.

Iloka is an okay player and that's about it.  Bates will give you everything Iloka did, at minimum, and has a chance to be a whole lot more than okay.  George is a dinosaur in today's league.  People ***** about not getting better.  Well, if you hold onto okay players, you will never get better.

Exactly!