(09-01-2018, 03:36 PM)McC Wrote: Did not answer my question at all.  Last year, ST's were average when Core was supposedly one of our best ST players.  This year, so far, he hasn't been out there, yet the Teams look better.  I fail to see all the value.

That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.

You can't judge an individuals value byt the entire teams performance.  There could be multiple reasons the special teams are better this year other than just the guy replacing Core.

(09-01-2018, 03:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.

You can't judge an individuals value byt the entire teams performance.  There could be multiple reasons the special teams are better this year other than just the guy replacing Core.

Do you struggle with logic?  He has clearly proven to not be indispensable, end of story.

(09-01-2018, 03:36 PM)McC Wrote: Did not answer my question at all.  Last year, ST's were average when Core was supposedly one of our best ST players.  This year, so far, he hasn't been out there, yet the Teams look better.  I fail to see all the value.

1. We have not even played a game this season.. preseason is preseason and if you use that logic.. Tate should be cut since he has done nothing on specials... 
2.  Because a team does not do well on specials does not mean individual players dont do well


again im not saying Tate should not make this team, my point is if they choose Core over Tate, is a roster shaping move is all.. both have value for different reasons. 

(09-01-2018, 03:42 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Tate stays per Hobson

Good news, i know he only played good in the Bears game but i see great upside with the guy in the Redzone.

TD's win games man.

(09-01-2018, 03:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: 1. We have not even played a game this season.. preseason is preseason and if you use that logic.. Tate should be cut since he has done nothing on specials... 
2.  Because a team does not do well on specials does not mean individual players dont do well


again im not saying Tate should not make this team, my point is if they choose Core over Tate, is a roster shaping move is all.. both have value for different reasons. 

Well, if you don't play and you aren't missed, exactly how high is your value?

(09-01-2018, 03:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.

You can't judge an individuals value byt the entire teams performance.  There could be multiple reasons the special teams are better this year other than just the guy replacing Core.

People do it all the time, particularly when talking about QBs.

Well, Tate made the team. That should conclude this thread..

(09-01-2018, 03:42 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Tate stays per Hobson

Good.  Maybe we're not all a bunch of morons overvaluing a 7th rounder.

(09-01-2018, 03:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he doesn't.  Being able to jump upo and catch a ball is not that amazing.  If it were then every team would have a bunch of slow tall WRs how could jump.

Go look at the NFL leaders in td receptions.  It is not a list of tall guys who can jump.

His "redzone skills" are vastly overrated.

BS, one of Core's main weaknesses is going up for the ball, this is Tate's main strength. It doesn't matter how fast
you are if you cannot catch the ball. Good hands are big and being bigger than the players in the Secondary helps.

Auden Tate was being praised by AJ Green for his redzone skills. Guess he doesn't know what he is talking about
either. Being tall and being able to jump are not just Tate's skills, it is his timing and the way he maneuvers in the
air that makes it rare. Core does not have this skill and i always was big on Core.

You sound to be overrating Core's skills.

(09-01-2018, 04:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: BS, one of Core's main weaknesses is going up for the ball, this is Tate's main strength. It doesn't matter how fast
you are if you cannot catch the ball. Good hands are big and being bigger than the players in the Secondary helps.

Auden Tate was being praised by AJ Green for his redzone skills. Guess he doesn't know what he is talking about
either. Being tall and being able to jump are not just Tate's skills, it is his timing and the way he maneuvers in the
air that makes it rare. Core does not have this skill and i always was big on Core.

You sound to be overrating Core's skills.

If being able to jump up and catch the ball over people isn't that big a deal, why do NFL QB's throw so many fades in the end zone?

(09-01-2018, 04:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: BS, one of Core's main weaknesses is going up for the ball, this is Tate's main strength. It doesn't matter how fast
you are if you cannot catch the ball. Good hands are big and being bigger than the players in the Secondary helps.

Auden Tate was being praised by AJ Green for his redzone skills. Guess he doesn't know what he is talking about
either. Being tall and being able to jump are not just Tate's skills, it is his timing and the way he maneuvers in the
air that makes it rare. Core does not have this skill and i always was big on Core.

You sound to be overrating Core's skills.

Apples to Oranges debate... keeping Core is pure Special Teams this year.. keeping Tate is pure diamond in the rough future.. with the roster decision i can see Core going IR with chance to come back in season.. Tate now has time to prove he can contribute on specials.. if he does not and he does nothing special to move up WR board.. can see him going Practice Squad when Core comes back. 

Tate stays? I'm all in then. This is great news.

(09-01-2018, 04:00 PM)McC Wrote: Good.  Maybe we're not all a bunch of morons overvaluing a 7th rounder.

So true. So true.

(09-01-2018, 03:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he doesn't.  Being able to jump upo and catch a ball is not that amazing.  If it were then every team would have a bunch of slow tall WRs how could jump.

Go look at the NFL leaders in td receptions.  It is not a list of tall guys who can jump.

His "redzone skills" are vastly overrated.

Yes he does.

There's more than just being able to jump and catch the ball, which isn't exactly easy in itself, especially when you consider that you have to jump over a defender and make a contested catch.  There's also body control and focus, and let's not forget everything else that he does as a receiver and can offer in that department.

The jump ball is one of the hardest things to cover as a corner, especially when you have a tall receiver that knows what he's doing because a defender needs to stay up on the receiver's body, get in position himself, time the jump, knock the ball down when receivers are taller than them 90% (maybe more) of the time, keeping an eye on the QB AND receiver to know when the ball's coming and make sure that the receiver doesn't cut under you and catch a quick slant, and a number of other factors.

Having a red zone threat like that is invaluable.  

(09-01-2018, 03:42 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Tate stays per Hobson

Thank God..........  I was shocked as to why the hell they would cut him for Core, even if they like Core's special teams abilities since putting points on the board is what counts.  I figured they'd find a way to make roster space by cutting someone else if Core is really that valuable on special teams, which doesn't make sense to me, especially long-term, since kickoffs will be eliminated altogether soon.

(09-01-2018, 04:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Apples to Oranges debate... keeping Core is pure Special Teams this year.. keeping Tate is pure diamond in the rough future.. with the roster decision i can see Core going IR with chance to come back in season.. Tate now has time to prove he can contribute on specials.. if he does not and he does nothing special to move up WR board.. can see him going Practice Squad when Core comes back. 

I agree with you for the most part Essex, i just found it ridiculous of Fred lumping all tall WR's that can jump into Auden Tate.

Great hands are a big deal and Tate has them.

I think the coaches made the right decision anyways so it is all good.

I read earlier that Core had 4 tackles on Teams last year. Here's hoping Tate can climb that mountain, if he doesn't just jump over it ....

(09-01-2018, 06:08 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I read earlier that Core had 4 tackles on Teams last year. Here's hoping Tate can climb that mountain, if he doesn't just jump over it ....  

Let's hope he first gets the confidence of Simmons to start on special teams so he is active on Sundays. I am glad we kept him, now he needs to progress on special teams in practice and learn to be a better WR from AJ and the coaches. He can be another great weapon so give Simmons a reason to make him active every Sunday so we can see him in the redzone.

(09-01-2018, 06:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's hope he first gets the confidence of Simmons to start on special teams so he is active on Sundays. I am glad we kept him, now he needs to progress on special teams in practice and learn to be a better WR from AJ and the coaches. He can be another great weapon so give Simmons a reason to make him active every Sunday so we can see him in the redzone.

^This^  He's got the opportunity now. Rooting for him as much as I have for any rookie. He's a Bengal now.

(09-01-2018, 06:22 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: ^This^  He's got the opportunity now. Rooting for him as much as I have for any rookie. He's a Bengal now.

Me 2

I don't know why but I've really been pulling for the guy. I just have this gut feeling the guy is gonna develop into a possession/redzone weapon that will make us very dangerous ! AJ, Eifert, Boyd, Mixon, Tate all on field at the 5.

(09-01-2018, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: #6 WR rarely sees the field.

Key ST players can play a dozen snaps.

I am not saying Core is a great WR, but Tate is a little over rated around here.  Seems like every year fans fall for a rookie WR "beast" who was either a late pick or undrafted.

They never go to other teams and become good players.

I feel the difference this time is, Tate has shown some physical ability that those other guys never did.

Of course, i say that before i get a chance to see who made it and who didn't since i just got back home from some shopping and eating, so we'll see how it went in just a second...