(10-04-2018, 10:18 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Well, yeah, but it has to be much more calculated if you do it. I think they bank on that 2012 team to take it all. That team would of made a run had they not choked. Joey signed that extension in the same window. I don’t really blame either really just bad luck

The mistake they made was that he still had a couple of years left on his contract when they extended him.

(10-04-2018, 10:26 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: He’s obviously a great hitter. I’m just past ready for a winner, that doesn’t look too likely anytime soon.

Yeah, i am 35 so I remember the 90s :-) I miss gold baseball too. It doesn’t look like it’ll change anytime soon either. Oh well. It won’t be bad forever so it’ll be that much better when they start winning

(10-04-2018, 10:29 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The mistake they made was that he still had a couple of years left on his contract when they extended him.

Yes, while cranking out ridiculous numbers. Good leader, good guy... you take care of those guys. I feel worse for having him not able to play in the post season more. He’s had 32 ABs :-(

(10-04-2018, 10:13 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You’re right, I was looking at oWar. They just realize how to pitch to him now. He’ll adjust and be better next year. Joey is one of the best reds hitters of all time, I how no doubt he’ll fix it. His defense isnt that great and base running is pretty bad. He needs a nice rebound year next year

I remember hearing the announcers saying, must have been July I was still watching them a little bit. I forget the year they said 2012, 13 maybe ? But they said Votto had a total of 7 pop up outs in the time span from then until now. Like 1.2 a year or something, pretty amazing. The guy just gets the sweet part of the bat on the ball.

(10-04-2018, 10:33 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yes, while cranking out ridiculous numbers. Good leader, good guy... you take care of those guys. I feel worse for having him not able to play in the post season more. He’s had 32 ABs :-(

I think that as a team on welfare that you at least have to wait until the final year until you negotiate. Too many things can happen with guaranteed contracts. Votto got hurt and salaries went down for top players during that time. There are just too many variables and risk to teams on a budget. Obviously it was the Bailey and not the Votto deal that wasted the last few years. Votto’s deal has the next 5 years to hurt the team. I really hope the fans don’t turn on him if he’s hitting.260-.270 with 5-8 homers a year at 1/4 of the teams salary. If he does that for 3 years in a row then it might get ugly. I’m glad that they have Votto on the team, I just wish that we had owners that could afford a consistent competitive team. These owners can’t or won’t put in the amount of money needed to do this.

(10-23-2018, 08:40 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I think that as a team on welfare that you at least have to wait until the final year until you negotiate. Too many things can happen with guaranteed contracts. Votto got hurt and salaries went down for top players during that time. There are just too many variables and risk to teams on a budget. Obviously it was the Bailey and not the Votto deal that wasted the last few years. Votto’s deal has the next 5 years to hurt the team. I really hope the fans don’t turn on him if he’s hitting.260-.270 with 5-8 homers a year at 1/4 of the teams salary. If he does that for 3 years in a row then it might get ugly. I’m glad that they have Votto on the team, I just wish that we had owners that could afford a consistent competitive team. These owners can’t or won’t put in the amount of money needed to do this.

 I don't disagree, but you need to avoid those high contracts for pitchers, not other positions. There's more than enough data to say that pitchers are far more inconsistent to plot how they're going to play. The Reds also really hurt themselves by not making their payroll much higher. I know they're small market, but spending around 80-100mil on players is just not going to work. Gotta get into the 140-150's to be competitive.

(10-24-2018, 11:58 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote:  I don't disagree, but you need to avoid those high contracts for pitchers, not other positions. There's more than enough data to say that pitchers are far more inconsistent to plot how they're going to play. The Reds also really hurt themselves by not making their payroll much higher. I know they're small market, but spending around 80-100mil on players is just not going to work. Gotta get into the 140-150's to be competitive.

I agree on salary and pitching. Any ten year deal is very risky though. Now they are starving for starting pitchers so they either need to overspend or deplete the minors.

(10-24-2018, 02:41 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I agree on salary and pitching. Any ten year deal is very risky though. Now they are starving for starting pitchers so they either need to overspend or deplete the minors.

Not necessarily. You just have to find creative ways of gaining any advantage possible. They have tons and tons of ways to help your ball spin more, using data to figure out how to attack certain hitters, etc.

(10-24-2018, 03:29 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Not necessarily. You just have to find creative ways of gaining any advantage possible. They have tons and tons of ways to help your ball spin more, using data to figure out how to attack certain hitters, etc.

I’m not sure that I follow you. Do you mean the current staff just needs a new pitching coach?

(10-24-2018, 10:38 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I’m not sure that I follow you. Do you mean the current staff just needs a new pitching coach?

Coach, overall philosophy, training, grip, all of it. Leave no stone unturned

(10-25-2018, 07:43 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Coach, overall philosophy, training, grip, all of it. Leave no stone unturned

I just think that they misidentified the talent that they brought in. Most of them have ceiling of a number 5 starter and that just won’t cut it. I agree that they’re not getting the most out of some guys but many of them are never going to put it together and be more than mediocre at best.