(10-31-2018, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree with just about everything except the bolded part.  If we listened to fans we would have cut Dre Kirkpatrick, Andre Smith, and Darquez Dennard before they had a chance to become valuable starters.

Building through the draft is actually very smart, but when you get a solid core and have a shot to compete for a championship you have to step up and take a chance on a top quality free agent or two to shore up weak spots.  That is where the Bengals fail.

Building thru the draft is the only way to do it. Where we fail is not plugging the holes/misses from the draft, like you say.

But they do hang on to marginal players way to long - Margus Hunt anyone ?

(10-30-2018, 12:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Agreed. Hardly a priority. RG and LB should be at the top of the list.

Doubt we’re going to make any trades though.

Westerman could and should play HARTS position in a heartbeat and do a much better job.Dude is big,strong,nasty and balls to the whistle and when he gets shoved around he just gets tougher.I would love to see him play a whole game at RT.And we got linebackers,Jefferson,and there is one other,I cannot remember his name,he is on the practice team and he is better was better than nickerson,who is AWLFUL AND GETS BEAT ALL GAME.Russell is a guy that could play in the secondary and he is a baller.but he just plays on the practice team day after day.I would love to see marvin stay in the locker room the whole game.He is a big big reason this team struggles.

(10-31-2018, 12:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This could still happen and would be a major improvement from last year. Next year does seem the year as we can
fill in the rest of the holes. It is pretty unrealistic to think we were going to trade for all these holes at this time.

This isn't Madden.

I tried to tell ya Nate.

(10-31-2018, 02:46 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Building thru the draft is the only way to do it. Where we fail is not plugging the holes/misses from the draft, like you say.

But they do hang on to marginal players way to long - Margus Hunt anyone ?

"Hold our beers....."


   -Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher

(10-31-2018, 03:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: "Hold our beers....."


   -Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher

The entire league AND the CFL must be hurting for OLinemen for these two to be on an NFL roster. This is what drives sane men crazy.

(10-31-2018, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree with just about everything except the bolded part.  If we listened to fans we would have cut Dre Kirkpatrick, Andre Smith, and Darquez Dennard before they had a chance to become valuable starters.

Building through the draft is actually very smart, but when you get a solid core and have a shot to compete for a championship you have to step up and take a chance on a top quality free agent or two to shore up weak spots.  That is where the Bengals fail.

Agreed. I should have phrased that differently. I find the team takes too long to determine if a draft pick is going to pan out or not. Dennard spent too much time on the bench waiting to get on the field. Others that are slugs, like Hunt, hang around with the hope of a turnaround. To me, it just needs to be better analysis of the players on hand, see where the gaps are and try and find other available players to fill those gaps. Bates is starting this year but ML has generally hated playing young players but in the league today with the salary cap you have little choice. This is where ML has not moved forward in how he coaches. 

(10-31-2018, 02:46 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Building thru the draft is the only way to do it. Where we fail is not plugging the holes/misses from the draft, like you say.

But they do hang on to marginal players way to long - Margus Hunt anyone ?

He's cooled off a bit as of late, but Hunt has been damn good this year; not at all saying we needed to keep him (or even draft him, Zimmer :@), but it sometimes takes players in their 6th or 7th year to put it all together! lol

Especially with him being exposed to the game so late, it hindered him; if he played it from high school and suffered little to no injuries, he'd've been much better.

But that's just 1 example; you're correct on everyone else.

(11-01-2018, 11:01 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He's cooled off a bit as of late, but Hunt has been damn good this year; not at all saying we needed to keep him (or even draft him, Zimmer :@), but it sometimes takes players in their 6th or 7th year to put it all together! lol

Especially with him being exposed to the game so late, it hindered him; if he played it from high school and suffered little to no injuries, he'd've been much better.

But that's just 1 example; you're correct on everyone else.

Because Hunt was so raw, he should have been a much later pick. An example, too often, where a raw talent guy gets picked high despite either little experience or short on instincts. 

(11-01-2018, 11:43 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Because Hunt was so raw, he should have been a much later pick. An example, too often, where a raw talent guy gets picked high despite either little experience or short on instincts. 

Indeed.

It being a Zimmer pick, made the reasoning behind just so much more bizzare, as his history almost never showed, "athleticism over talent."

(10-31-2018, 02:46 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: But they do hang on to marginal players way to long - Margus Hunt anyone ?

Hunt was not a starter here, and he was not that bad for a back up.  He is on pace to get 9 sacks for the Colts this year.

(11-01-2018, 10:55 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote:  ML has generally hated playing young players but in the league today with the salary cap you have little choice. This is where ML has not moved forward in how he coaches. 

This is mostly a message board myth.  EVERY coach hates playing rookies and young players, but Marvin plays them as much as the average NFL coach.

These numbers are from 2017, but they make the point

According to profootballreference over the last ten years there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games.

When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24.

233 players had two seasons with at least 14 starts in their first 3 years. That is an average of 7.6 per team and the Bengals have had 7.

Only 80 players started at least 14 games in each of their first three seasons. That is an average of 2.5 per team and the Bengals have had 3.

(11-01-2018, 01:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is mostly a message board myth.  EVERY coach hates playing rookies and young players, but Marvin plays them as much as the average NFL coach.

These numbers are from 2017, but they make the point

According to profootballreference over the last ten years there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games.

When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24.

233 players had two seasons with at least 14 starts in their first 3 years. That is an average of 7.6 per team and the Bengals have had 7.

Only 80 players started at least 14 games in each of their first three seasons. That is an average of 2.5 per team and the Bengals have had 3.

I concur Fred. I think the Bengals draft strategy also plays in. Typically the Bengals draft guys in the 1st Round looking at who will likely leave as a free agent in a couple years. Thus you get a guy like Kirkpatrick that has veterans in front of him and can't get playing time. Whereas the Steelers force a guy like Artie Burns into action.

Then you have the Bengals keeping guys like Peko and MJ playing for whatever reason.

Situations like this tend to make fans think they don't play rookies.

(11-01-2018, 01:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Then you have the Bengals keeping guys like Peko and MJ playing for whatever reason.

Bengals kept Peko playing for the same reason one of the best defenses in the league paid him more than we did to start for them.

(10-31-2018, 03:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: I tried to tell ya Nate.

Yes you did Wyche. Looks like we need to add a new DC and LB coach too to really go all the way.

These guys are holding this team back big time right now.

(11-01-2018, 01:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes you did Wyche. Looks like we need to add a new DC and LB coach too to really go all the way.

These guys are holding this team back big time right now.

Yeah.....and I had no idea then the defense would be so shitty.  LB and OL were the biggest holes I saw.