(12-14-2018, 02:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It would be amazing if we just keep avoiding addressing the offensive line or LB.

LBs and OL aren't important. Any ol' guys. Mixon still churnin' out 4.8 YPC.

(12-14-2018, 05:28 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Used jock straps that is from the 1990's you are really reaching to make a point. Someone said Mike having 60mil profit was why he can not worry about winning and I responded to that. So maybe you should read every post and not just the last few before you comment.

My point was if every team gets 60 mil profit then nobody has to worry about winning but you all point the finger at Mike like he is the only owner in the NFL that makes a profit. All these lil thing you guys are posting comes up to a few mil tops not a big chunk out of the profit. 

But this is what will ring true like it or not this team will be controlled by the Brown/Blackburn family till you and I are in the grave and way beyond. But keep beating that dead horse cause nothing you will say is going to change that.

The being stingy with Gatorade and deodorant was when Joseph left which was late 2000's.

People point the finger at him because he hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years and hasn't hired a GM.

Over that same span, some 26 teams have won 5+ playoff games.

(12-15-2018, 01:01 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The being stingy with Gatorade and deodorant was when Joseph left which was late 2000's.

People point the finger at him because he hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years and hasn't hired a GM.

Over that same span, some 26 teams have won 5+ playoff games.

Marvin has stated that the limit on how many Gatorades players could take home was his policy.

"I was told this morning about Johnathan's comments that were printed," Lewis said Wednesay in an online chat with the Cincinnati Enquirer. "It's my fault that I feel that a player doesn't need to take a dozen Gatorades home in his backpack each night and that we are paying him a salary. I'm sure that Johnathan would not have been one of the abusive players, but it is my policy."


His comments would seem to infer that either they had no limit at one time and players abused it or it was something he felt was being abused in his previous coaching stops.


I get both sides of it.  If one organization gives unlimited amounts out for free, that quickly becomes the standard.  On the flip side, you have a 53 man roster plus a 10 man practice squad.  If everyone is taking home a dozen bottles a day, that amounts to almost 5,300 bottles of Gatorade a week taken home.  That seems a bit ridiculous for guys making mid 6 figures on the low end.  I don't know a lot of businesses that think it's ok for employees to take home coffee packets out of the break room and rolls of toilet paper out of the cleaning closet.

(12-15-2018, 01:01 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The being stingy with Gatorade and deodorant was when Joseph left which was late 2000's.

People point the finger at him because he hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years and hasn't hired a GM.

Over that same span, some 26 teams have won 5+ playoff games.

Why are we lacking talent? I don't think so.

Oh C'mon.. what do you want for a paltry 190 million bucks give or take? 
Do you realistically expect guys to perform up to some kind of professional standards when they're so drastically underpaid at a few million bucks a year? 
Just think about how good a McDonald's hamburger would be if McDonald's employees were paid even a half of an NFL salary!  They'd be so good you'd probably buy two!  (if you could possibly afford one with those kinds of wages)
I jest of course . NFL players could never qualify to get jobs working at McDonald's . 

(12-15-2018, 03:31 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Why are we lacking talent? I don't think so.

So are you arguing just to argue? You say we have talent, we pay our players well, our owner does everything he can to win a playoff game but Marvin is still head coach, so there you go.

(12-15-2018, 09:34 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So are you arguing just to argue? You say we have talent, we pay our players well, our owner does everything he can to win a playoff game but Marvin is still head coach, so there you go.

I have said we need new coaches about 50 times in the last two days on here but ok overlook that. I have said our owner can not be changed no matter how many of you want it so its like beating a dead horse complaining about it. So there you go.

I do argue just to argue sometimes but its good to have a debate now and then about every subject.

(12-15-2018, 03:31 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Why are we lacking talent? I don't think so.

We absolutely lack talent. The offensive line and LB positions are horrible. That's a start.

If you compare our roster with the Steelers, the Steelers have way more talent.

(12-15-2018, 10:22 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I have said we need new coaches about 50 times in the last two days on here but ok overlook that. I have said our owner can not be changed no matter how many of you want it so its like beating a dead horse complaining about it. So there you go.

And in our structure, who determines who the HC's are? Yes - the owner.

We brought in some new coaches in the offseason...AND - The defense got much worse. The offensive line didn't improve. Seems to indicate a talent issue to me.

(12-15-2018, 10:22 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: I have said we need new coaches about 50 times in the last two days on here but ok overlook that. I have said our owner can not be changed no matter how many of you want it so its like beating a dead horse complaining about it. So there you go.

I read somewhere that the NFL passed a rule that a team can't be moved without their approval and giving someone else the opportunity to buy the team. If this is true then the fans definitely have leverage by refusing to buy tickets and merchandise. The financial advantage we gave him with the stadium deal gives him a big advantage over clubs who have to build their own. Maybe the fans dumping garbage in his yard will make him want to leave. It worked with Palmer.

(12-15-2018, 12:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I read somewhere that the NFL passed a rule that a team can't be moved without their approval and giving someone else the opportunity to buy the team. If this is true then the fans definitely have leverage by refusing to buy tickets and merchandise. The financial advantage we gave him with the stadium deal gives him a big advantage over clubs who have to build their own. Maybe the fans dumping garbage in his yard will make him want to leave. It worked with Palmer.

I think Palmer saw that he couldn't win here...much like Dillon, Pickens, Spikes, Justin Smith, Joseph, etc.

(12-15-2018, 12:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I read somewhere that the NFL passed a rule that a team can't be moved without their approval and giving someone else the opportunity to buy the team. If this is true then the fans definitely have leverage by refusing to buy tickets and merchandise. The financial advantage we gave him with the stadium deal gives him a big advantage over clubs who have to build their own. Maybe the fans dumping garbage in his yard will make him want to leave. It worked with Palmer.

He would need to win an owners' vote to move the team.  He doesn't need to give anyone the chance to buy the team.  You may be get getting confused with the rule that requires the other owners approve any sale of a franchise.  If you can prove your case to the other owners that you want to move because the market is bad, why would they want you to sell to someone to keep the franchise in that market?

The big hurdle is he would need to break the stadium lease.  That would cost him more than it's worth unless he's found that the county has breeched the stadium lease.  They did breech the Riverfront lease when they fell behind on their payments to the team, which gave him the leverage he needed for the PBS deal.  Otherwise, he could just not renew the lease when it comes up and get the owner's approval to move.

It doesn't much matter, since Mikey and Katie have stated they don't want to move and have already started working on a new lease agreement.

Hamilton county tax payers paid for the stadium and its upgrades. The Hamilton county taxpayers should get teams profits and voting rights for any decisions that are made.

Any hiring of coaches, signing free agents and draft picks, should be voted on by the fans in Hamilton county. The Hamilton county tax payers should file a class action lawsuit against the Brown family demanding most of the teams profits and decision making with the team.

The Packers fans own the Packers and they get voting rights to select a board of directors, who in turn select an executive committee that runs the team.  The executive committee selects the teams management.

The Packers fans, that own shares, get to voice concerns with the teams board of directors and team management at the annual meetings. 

It seems unbelievable that Mike Brown stuck the Hamilton county taxpayers with the stadium bill and its upgrades, then rules it like he's Genghis Khan.

He has promised an indoor practice facility and has not followed through on it. According to an article posted on this site the stadium has severe food safety problems. That indicates Mike Brown trying to save money by hiring the cheapest and most incompetent employees he can find. 

He also won't hire a gm or enough scouts so he can save money and put more of it in his and his families pockets

Article quotes :

"But Paul Brown Stadium alone ended up costing $459 million, including $51 million in cost overruns. In 2011, stadium costs made up 16.4% of Hamilton County’s budget, according to the Wall Street Journal. "

"We can’t afford for the fund to go bankrupt,” Driehaus said. 

Via Amansa Seitz of WCPO.com, the taxpayers in Hamilton County, Ohio already have coughed up $920 million for Paul Brown Stadium, which opened in 2000. With the county beginning to foot the bill for some of the team’s game-day operating expenses in 2017 (to the tune of $2.7 million per year and growing) along with other expenses will put the total cost to $1.1 billion through 2026, when the lease with the team expires.

The stadium bill and the upgrades have basically bankrupted Hamilton county, cost totals close to 1 billion dollars, and yet all the Bengals fans get is this hot garbage of a team.

The team is probably only worth 1 billion  so the Hamilton county tax payers should own the team. 

It is outrageous that Bengals fans get no profits from the Bengals, and no say in any decisions that are made. The only way to deal with a blatant asshole like Mike Brown is in the courts.

(12-15-2018, 04:17 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Hamilton county tax payers paid for the stadium and its upgrades. The Hamilton county taxpayers should get teams profits and voting rights for any decisions that are made.

Any hiring of coaches, signing free agents and draft picks, should be voted on by the fans in Hamilton county. The Hamilton county tax payers should file a class action lawsuit against the Brown family demanding most of the teams profits and decision making with the team.

The Packers fans own the Packers and they get voting rights to select a board of directors, who in turn select an executive committee that runs the team.  The executive committee selects the teams management.

The Packers fans, that own shares, get to voice concerns with the teams board of directors and team management at the annual meetings. 

It seems unbelievable that Mike Brown stuck the Hamilton county taxpayers with the stadium bill and its upgrades, then rules it like he's Genghis Khan.

He has promised an indoor practice facility and has not followed through on it. According to an article posted on this site the stadium has severe food safety problems. That indicates Mike Brown trying to save money by hiring the cheapest and most incompetent employees he can find. 

He also won't hire a gm or enough scouts so he can save money and put more of it in his and his families pockets

Article quotes :

"But Paul Brown Stadium alone ended up costing $459 million, including $51 million in cost overruns. In 2011, stadium costs made up 16.4% of Hamilton County’s budget, according to the Wall Street Journal. "

"We can’t afford for the fund to go bankrupt,” Driehaus said. 

Via Amansa Seitz of WCPO.com, the taxpayers in Hamilton County, Ohio already have coughed up $920 million for Paul Brown Stadium, which opened in 2000. With the county beginning to foot the bill for some of the team’s game-day operating expenses in 2017 (to the tune of $2.7 million per year and growing) along with other expenses will put the total cost to $1.1 billion through 2026, when the lease with the team expires.

The stadium bill and the upgrades have basically bankrupted Hamilton county, cost totals close to 1 billion dollars, and yet all the Bengals fans get is this hot garbage of a team.

The team is probably only worth 1 billion  so the Hamilton county tax payers should own the team. 

It is outrageous that Bengals fans get no profits from the Bengals, and no say in any decisions that are made. The only way to deal with a blatant asshole like Mike Brown is in the courts.

The Bengals have actually been recently footing the bill for stadium renovations even though Hamilton County is required to pay for all renovations per the lease agreement.  For example, the new scoreboards were primarily paid for by the Bengals.

Hamilton County was in breech of contract on the Riverfront lease.  They agreed to the PBS deal because Mikey had them over a barrel because of it.  They agreed to those terms to keep the Bengals in Cincinnati.  Hamilton County did try to sue the Bengals, and it was dismissed.  You can't just decide after you signed a contract and got what you wanted out of it that you don't like those terms and it shouldn't be binding.

Hamilton County can't even get their part of the stadium leases right.  When you look into it, they've breached the PBS lease several times.  If Mikey wanted to move the team by dissolving the PBS lease due to breach of contract, he could.  I'm trying to figure out how PBS cost so much and is so outdated compared to stadiums like the Browns and Ravens that opened around the same time and cost half as much. They paid twice as much for a stadium that wasn't even considered top of the line when it opened and was outdated within a decade of opening. They overpaid up front for a worse building by a huge margin.  Hamilton County is even more incompetent than the Bengals are.  Why would you want them to run anything?

NFL rules state teams must have a majority owner.  Green Bay's situation was grandfathered in.  Mike Brown couldn't hand the Bengals over to Hamilton County even if he wanted to. It's not going to happen.  

(12-15-2018, 08:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals have actually been recently footing the bill for stadium renovations even though Hamilton County is required to pay for all renovations per the lease agreement.  For example, the new scoreboards were primarily paid for by the Bengals.

Hamilton County was in breech of contract on the Riverfront lease.  They agreed to the PBS deal because Mikey had them over a barrel because of it.  They agreed to those terms to keep the Bengals in Cincinnati.  Hamilton County did try to sue the Bengals, and it was dismissed.  You can't just decide after you signed a contract and got what you wanted out of it that you don't like those terms and it shouldn't be binding.

Hamilton County can't even get their part of the stadium leases right.  When you look into it, they've breached the PBS lease several times.  If Mikey wanted to move the team by dissolving the PBS lease due to breach of contract, he could.  I'm trying to figure out how PBS cost so much and is so outdated compared to stadiums like the Browns and Ravens that opened around the same time and cost half as much. They paid twice as much for a stadium that wasn't even considered top of the line when it opened and was outdated within a decade of opening. They overpaid up front for a worse building by a huge margin.  Hamilton County is even more incompetent than the Bengals are.  Why would you want them to run anything?

NFL rules state teams must have a majority owner.  Green Bay's situation was grandfathered in.  Mike Brown couldn't hand the Bengals over to Hamilton County even if he wanted to. It's not going to happen.  

I didn't say I want the Hamilton county politicians running the team, I said the Bengals fans who live in Hamilton county would run the team. 

The bottom line is the Hamilton county tax payers paid for the stadium, therefor they should own it and make most of the decisions.  They would choose a board of directors, who would in turn choose an executive committee that would run the team. 

(12-15-2018, 09:09 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: I didn't say I want the Hamilton county politicians running the team, I said the Bengals fans who live in Hamilton county would run the team. 

The bottom line is the Hamilton county tax payers paid for the stadium, therefor they should own it and make most of the decisions.  They would choose a board of directors, who would in turn choose an executive committee that would run the team. 

The fact that such an ownership situation isn't permitted by the league aside, PBS and GAB were funded by a .5% sales tax increase.  If people should have control based on the fact that they contributed money towards the stadium, then every person who bought something in Hamilton County from 1998 on contributed money towards the stadium, and should also therefore have a say in how the team is run, including all those visiting Browns and Steelers fans.  

Even then, if this was left up to the Hamilton County voters, it would still be a disaster.  The same voters who voted in the politicians who broke the Riverfront lease, insanely overpaid for PBS, gave the Bengals a favorable lease agreement, then wasted more taxpayer money trying to sue the Bengals over the lease they agreed to are now going to vote on the politicians who are going to run the Bengals?  What could go wrong?

What's worse is the legal precedent it would set.  Basically, if you rent commercial property and are losing money, you basically have the right to steal your tenants' businesses.  

The County owns PBS.  If the county is losing so much money, they can choose not renew the lease when it expires.  The County won't do that because no team is going to move into PBS and as much as they're complaining about what they've spent, there's money coming in they don't talk about.  Stuff like city income taxes on a bunch of millionaires, property taxes, sales taxes on the money they throw around, tourist dollars, the fact that the new sports stadiums were centerpieces for the downtown renovations which brought in businesses, etc., etc.

(12-15-2018, 10:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: The fact that such an ownership situation isn't permitted by the league aside, PBS and GAB were funded by a .5% sales tax increase.  If people should have control based on the fact that they contributed money towards the stadium, then every person who bought something in Hamilton County from 1998 on contributed money towards the stadium, and should also therefore have a say in how the team is run, including all those visiting Browns and Steelers fans.  

Even then, if this was left up to the Hamilton County voters, it would still be a disaster.  The same voters who voted in the politicians who broke the Riverfront lease, insanely overpaid for PBS, gave the Bengals a favorable lease agreement, then wasted more taxpayer money trying to sue the Bengals over the lease they agreed to are now going to vote on the politicians who are going to run the Bengals?  What could go wrong?

What's worse is the legal precedent it would set.  Basically, if you rent commercial property and are losing money, you basically have the right to steal your tenants' businesses.  

The County owns PBS.  If the county is losing so much money, they can choose not renew the lease when it expires.  The County won't do that because no team is going to move into PBS and as much as they're complaining about what they've spent, there's money coming in they don't talk about.  Stuff like city income taxes on a bunch of millionaires, property taxes, sales taxes on the money they throw around, tourist dollars, the fact that the new sports stadiums were centerpieces for the downtown renovations which brought in businesses, etc., etc.

The fans would elect a board of directors, not politicians, to run the team. The board of directors would be far more competent than the politicians who got a bad stadium deal. The amount of economic gain to surrounding businesses is very small compared to the 920 million the fans have paid to build and fund the stadium.