(12-21-2018, 02:37 AM)BengalChris Wrote: His 0-4 playoff record with 1 TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs and a 57 passer rating sure ain't exactly faultless though.

Some people just can't seem to grasp the concept of "team". In all of those losses the entire team was garbage save for the D against Pitt in 2015 - and then of coarse they imploded at the end. This team and all the ones before it are a reflection of Mediocre Merv .500.

What it shows is that the 'stars have to align' just for this team to make the playoffs let alone win any big games. We need several good drafts in a row, minimal injuries, some luck, etc.

26 years with no playoff wins is a freaking joke in a league designed for parity.

And if the team is actually paying ML $6M? Wow, a bigger joke.

(12-21-2018, 12:49 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: And if the team is actually paying ML $6M? Wow, a bigger joke.

That is some serious coin.

I would show up in a City of folks that mostly wanted me gone for 10% of that or $600 grand. Let alone $6 million.
Then I'd stay as long as possible.

Marvin is just 60 years old, so I'd say he will show up next year for another $6 million.

(12-21-2018, 11:02 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Some people just can't seem to grasp the concept of "team". In all of those losses the entire team was garbage save for the D against Pitt in 2015 - and then of coarse they imploded at the end. This team and all the ones before it are a reflection of Mediocre Merv .500.

Agreed,

If it was a game here and there, a playoff game there, whatever ? You could chalk it up to bad luck, games, and so on. 

But when it the same thing over and over and over again across 16 seasons and 7 playoff games with several different OC's, DC's, QB's, RB's Defense's, teams, times, and it the same results time and time again it's not just AD !

(12-21-2018, 12:49 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: What it shows is that the 'stars have to align' just for this team to make the playoffs let alone win any big games. We need several good drafts in a row, minimal injuries, some luck, etc.

26 years with no playoff wins is a freaking joke in a league designed for parity.

And if the team is actually paying ML $6M? Wow, a bigger joke.

Exactly,

With the way this team is ran, owner, no real FA's, mediocre Merv playing not to lose and on and on. We have to get all the breaks, the players have to overcome the coaching, we have very, very little margin for error.

(12-20-2018, 03:45 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is our record vs. Playoff teams year by year. Actual Playoff loses are included, we're playing playoff teams.

2003: 1-3 vs. Playoff teams
Broncos - L
Ravens - L,W
St. L Rams - L

2004: 2-4 vs. Playoff teams actually 1-4, we played the Eagles in week 17 and won but they had playoff spot secured playing backups.
Steelers - L,L
Jets - L
Broncos - W
Patriots - L
Eagles - W

2005: 2-4
*Steelers - L,W,L
Jags - L
Colts - L
Bears - W

2006: 3-4
Chiefs - W
Patriots - L
Ravens - L.W
Chargers - L
Saints - W
Colts - L

2007: 1-4
Steelers - L,L
Patriots - L
Titans - W
Seahawks -L

2008: 0-7-1 interestingly enough one of Merv's worst season coincides with playing several games against playoff teams.
Titans - L
Steelers - L,L
Colts - L
Ravens - L,L
Giants - L
Eagles - Tie

2009: 3-4 One loss against Jets was at end of season and we were resting starters. The other the playoffs.
Ravens - W,W
Chargers -L
*Jets - L,L
Vikings - L
Packers - W

2010: 1-7 again several games against playoff bound teams and we got smoked !
Steelers - L,L
Ravens - L,W
Colts - L
Jets - L
Falcons - L
Saints - L

2011: 0-8 Ironic huh ? never beat a playoff team all year and we made playoffs
Ravens - L,L
Steelers - L,L
*Texans - L,L
Broncos - L
49ers - L

2012: 2-3
Ravens - L,W
Broncos - L
Redskins - W
*Texans - L

2013: 4-1 Merv's best season against playoff teams, and we still fold in crunch time !
Patriots - W
*Chargers - W,L
Colts - W
Packers - W

2014: 3-5-1
Steelers L,L
Ravens - W,W
Patriots - L
*Colts - L, L
Broncos - W
Panthers - Tie

2015: 3-5 After beating the Steelers in week 9 or so we played 4 more games, including playoffs against PO teams and lost every one.
*Steelers L,W,L
Broncos - L
Chiefs - W
Texans - L
Cardinals - L
Seahawks - W

2016: 1-6
Steelers - L,L
Patriots - L
Dolphins - W
Texans - L
Cowboys - L
Giants - L

2017: 1-5
Steelers L,L
Jags - L
Bills - W
Titans - L
Vikings - L

Marvin Lewis overall record against playoff bound teams:

27 Wins
70 Loses
2 ties

99 games total and he's won a touch over 25% of the time

NEAR 75% of the time we're playing playoff level teams, including playoffs,

WE LOSE

Knew it was bad but damn, even on our best years with Marv in 2005 and 2015 where i thought we had a shot at a
SB we didn't have a winning record against playoff level teams. This to go along with his terrible record against the
Steelers are the biggest reasons we need to move on, we will never win the games that matter with this guy at the
helm man.

Reps brother for the hard work.

(12-21-2018, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Knew it was bad but damn, even on our best years with Marv in 2005 and 2015 where i thought we had a shot at a
SB we didn't have a winning record against playoff level teams. This to go along with his terrible record against the
Steelers are the biggest reasons we need to move on, we will never win the games that matter with this guy at the
helm man.

Reps brother for the hard work.

If you look at the seasons where we've done decent, 3-4 or whatever it usually includes a win or two over Ravens.

For whatever reason that's one slightly bright spot for Merv ?

Overall though he spits the bit regular against the better competition. 

I have watched every Bengals playoff loss and had my heart ripped out every time. This team lost these games completely. Has Dalton been bad? Yes. But so has the entire team. The O-line would be bad, the defense as a unit, run game, turnovers, bad penalties, etc. this TEAM folds in the limelight. ( Giving a pass for the Palmer injury ). We cannot do one thing well without doing two things bad right after.

(12-20-2018, 10:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In that light, 0-7 in the playoffs makes sense. It's just a continuation of how we normally play.

Of course, some 25% of those losses are to the Steelers as they essentially always make the playoffs.

Which is what a lot of us said for years in the great Dalton debates, and against the Mediocre Merv Militia.  '74 just blew it wide open.

(12-21-2018, 02:42 PM)Destro Wrote: I have watched every Bengals playoff loss and had my heart ripped out every time.  This team lost these games completely. Has Dalton been bad? Yes. But so has the entire team. The O-line would be bad, the defense as a unit, run game, turnovers, bad penalties, etc. this TEAM folds in the limelight. ( Giving a pass for the Palmer injury ).  We cannot do one thing well without doing two things bad right after.

Spot on! Playoff Bengals do not remotely look like the Regular Season Bengals.....

(12-21-2018, 02:42 PM)Destro Wrote: I have watched every Bengals playoff loss and had my heart ripped out every time.  This team lost these games completely. Has Dalton been bad? Yes. But so has the entire team. The O-line would be bad, the defense as a unit, run game, turnovers, bad penalties, etc. this TEAM folds in the limelight. ( Giving a pass for the Palmer injury ).  We cannot do one thing well without doing two things bad right after.

Which is the sole reason I have issues blaming the players......and we had the lead against Pitt in that '05 playoff game at the half.


Good work BF74.....really eye opening when you see it in black and white.  

(12-21-2018, 02:42 PM)Destro Wrote: I have watched every Bengals playoff loss and had my heart ripped out every time.  This team lost these games completely. Has Dalton been bad? Yes. But so has the entire team. The O-line would be bad, the defense as a unit, run game, turnovers, bad penalties, etc. this TEAM folds in the limelight. ( Giving a pass for the Palmer injury ).  We cannot do one thing well without doing two things bad right after.

I think except for the 2013 playoff loss, a lot of it can go on Marvin and quite a few players as well **cough cough Jeremy Hill fumble**.

I say except for the 2013 loss though because the Bengals had a 10-7 lead at halftime. Although it could have been more of a lead, Bengals were very much in it. But then Dalton had 3 consecutive turnovers in the second half as he spearheaded the spiral downward in that game. If there is one playoff loss to put on Dalton more than anyone else, it is that one. (key word there is more)

(12-21-2018, 03:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Which is what a lot of us said for years in the great Dalton debates, and against the Mediocre Merv Militia.  '74 just blew it wide open.

Yes he blew it wide open!! We get to the playoffs and this team looks flat, uninspired for some reason in all 3 phases of the game....hmmmm, if only there was a common denominator????

(12-21-2018, 03:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I think except for the 2013 playoff loss, a lot of it can go on Marvin and quite a few players as well **cough cough Jeremy Hill fumble**.

I say except for the 2013 loss though because the Bengals had a 10-7 lead at halftime. Although it could have been more of a lead, Bengals were very much in it. But then Dalton had 3 consecutive turnovers in the second half as he spearheaded the spiral downward in that game. If there is one playoff loss to put on Dalton more than anyone else, it is that one. (key word there is more)

Let me say this first, Dalton did stink in the 2nd half. That out of the way, a Gio fumble down inside the 10 yd line and AJ's drop of a TD didn't help. SD's defense was suppose to be horrific against the run and we couldn't run the ball and our D which could stop the run couldn't that day. What I am getting at is this, we lost out on 2 TDs and we could have just played smash mouth the 2nd half. It didn't workout that way, so we ended up playing catch up in the 2nd half and Dalton wasn't good. 

(12-21-2018, 03:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Let me say this first, Dalton did stink in the 2nd half. That out of the way, a Gio fumble down inside the 10 yd line and AJ's drop of a TD didn't help. SD's defense was suppose to be horrific against the run and we couldn't run the ball and our D which could stop the run couldn't that day. What I am getting at is this, we lost out on 2 TDs and we could have just played smash mouth the 2nd half. It didn't workout that way, so we ended up playing catch up in the 2nd half and Dalton wasn't good. 

We didn't run the ball.  BJGE was up around 5 YPC in the 1st half if memory serves.  I've posted these numbers here and on the old board, but for some odd reason, Bennie always had success against SD after his first year in NE where he wasn't a featured back.  If you take out the first year or two, when he was a benchwarmer, his CAREER YPC against SD was around 5 YPC, he had just abused them two weeks earlier in their own house, was running well against them in the 1st half of that game, and after the 2nd turnover, they panicked and forgot he was on the team.

This was the moment, for me, that really solidified the issues as a coaching problem.  

(12-21-2018, 02:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If you look at the seasons where we've done decent, 3-4 or whatever it usually includes a win or two over Ravens.

For whatever reason that's one slightly bright spot for Merv ?

Overall though he spits the bit regular against the better competition. 

I mean i like that we have the Ravens number but that shouldn't be the lone reason to keep this guy around.

We can find another HC that can give us a shot, Marv has had his. This shows it.

(12-21-2018, 03:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: We didn't run the ball.  BJGE was up around 5 YPC in the 1st half if memory serves.  I've posted these numbers here and on the old board, but for some odd reason, Bennie always had success against SD after his first year in NE where he wasn't a featured back.  If you take out the first year or two, when he was a benchwarmer, his CAREER YPC against SD was around 5 YPC, he had just abused them two weeks earlier in their own house, was running well against them in the 1st half of that game, and after the 2nd turnover, they panicked and forgot he was on the team.

This was the moment, for me, that really solidified the issues as a coaching problem.  

Yes, this was inexcusable, we were the better team that just beat the Chargers in their place two weeks prior we
are up at Halftime and go away from what made us the better team, the run game and particularly BJGE who as
you note always ran well against the Chargers.

I agree, felt the same exact way as you Wyche after watching that debacle. Meltdown city and it was on the
coaches from Marv on down to Jay.

(12-21-2018, 03:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: We didn't run the ball.  BJGE was up around 5 YPC in the 1st half if memory serves.  I've posted these numbers here and on the old board, but for some odd reason, Bennie always had success against SD after his first year in NE where he wasn't a featured back.  If you take out the first year or two, when he was a benchwarmer, his CAREER YPC against SD was around 5 YPC, he had just abused them two weeks earlier in their own house, was running well against them in the 1st half of that game, and after the 2nd turnover, they panicked and forgot he was on the team.

This was the moment, for me, that really solidified the issues as a coaching problem.  

I have to be honest here, I didn't watch the 4th quarter of that game. I couldn't stomach to much more of what I was watching. I even recorded the game and deleted it without watching. 
As for your moment, I'm with you!

(12-21-2018, 02:42 PM)Destro Wrote: I have watched every Bengals playoff loss and had my heart ripped out every time.  This team lost these games completely. Has Dalton been bad? Yes. But so has the entire team. The O-line would be bad, the defense as a unit, run game, turnovers, bad penalties, etc. this TEAM folds in the limelight. ( Giving a pass for the Palmer injury ).  We cannot do one thing well without doing two things bad right after.

One step forward and two steps back.

(12-21-2018, 03:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Which is the sole reason I have issues blaming the players......and we had the lead against Pitt in that '05 playoff game at the half.


Good work BF74.....really eye opening when you see it in black and white.  

Yes it is, gives it a ...... perspective, bad one.

(12-21-2018, 03:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I think except for the 2013 playoff loss, a lot of it can go on Marvin and quite a few players as well **cough cough Jeremy Hill fumble**.

I say except for the 2013 loss though because the Bengals had a 10-7 lead at halftime. Although it could have been more of a lead, Bengals were very much in it. But then Dalton had 3 consecutive turnovers in the second half as he spearheaded the spiral downward in that game. If there is one playoff loss to put on Dalton more than anyone else, it is that one. (key word there is more)

Sand wedge beat me to it but, the implosion started with the Gio fumble right before halftime. We played our best 25 or so minutes of playoff football up to that moment. Not taking up for Dalton in the second half at all, he stunk !

But you could see the tone change from that fumble forward. Another example of ML led teams imploding at the first sign of adversity.

(12-21-2018, 03:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Let me say this first, Dalton did stink in the 2nd half. That out of the way, a Gio fumble down inside the 10 yd line and AJ's drop of a TD didn't help. SD's defense was suppose to be horrific against the run and we couldn't run the ball and our D which could stop the run couldn't that day. What I am getting at is this, we lost out on 2 TDs and we could have just played smash mouth the 2nd half. It didn't workout that way, so we ended up playing catch up in the 2nd half and Dalton wasn't good. 

Yep

(12-21-2018, 03:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: We didn't run the ball.  BJGE was up around 5 YPC in the 1st half if memory serves.  I've posted these numbers here and on the old board, but for some odd reason, Bennie always had success against SD after his first year in NE where he wasn't a featured back.  If you take out the first year or two, when he was a benchwarmer, his CAREER YPC against SD was around 5 YPC, he had just abused them two weeks earlier in their own house, was running well against them in the 1st half of that game, and after the 2nd turnover, they panicked and forgot he was on the team.

This was the moment, for me, that really solidified the issues as a coaching problem.  

Right on !

How many times have we seen this team up and totally abandon the run when the lights are the brightest ? Hell this season there's examples. Mixon 11 carries, 12 carries, and we were still very in the game and we were having some success.  It's like we panic when there's no need and then play with little urgency when it's totally called for.

(12-21-2018, 03:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, this was inexcusable, we were the better team that just beat the Chargers in their place two weeks prior we
are up at Halftime and go away from what made us the better team, the run game and particularly BJGE who as
you note always ran well against the Chargers.

I agree, felt the same exact way as you Wyche after watching that debacle. Meltdown city and it was on the
coaches from Marv on down to Jay.

We totally should have beat the Chargers that season, such a waste of a decent team.

(12-21-2018, 02:37 AM)BengalChris Wrote: His 0-4 playoff record with 1 TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs and a 57 passer rating sure ain't exactly faultless though.

I 110% don't disagree. Dalton has been terrible in the playoffs. As has anyone that has worn the Bengals jersey under Marvin Lewis.

The example I continue to make is Palmer. Palmer played two years with the Raiders, then a few more with the Cardinals and won playoff games before we could even wipe our own ass.

We have went through TWO different eras of teams, under two different QBs, different receivers, different defensive ideologies. It's ALL under the same man.

I don't care if it's Dalton, Palmer, Driskel, Uncle Rico or my Mom, this team falters under Marvin Lewis' coaching.