(01-01-2019, 09:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: Nobody is going to cut a WR with 7 TD's unless they're a locker room cancer or insanely overpaid.  

What's ironic is Ross was what everyone was hyping Auden Tate up to be, a red zone TD machine.

That is quite true and funny.

Ross was also being held back by Marvin previously as well.

(01-01-2019, 07:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Supposedly, Tobin wanted Ross and Marvin wanted Reuben Foster, and Mike broke the tie and went with Ross.  I'd say the Bengals got the better end of that deal.

I've heard that as well. Neither were worthy of the #9 pick. The Bengals draft hasn't been that stellar of late.

(01-01-2019, 11:35 PM)BengalChris Wrote: AJ Green and Tyler Boyd don't seem to have a problem.

As much as I want Lazor gone, Ross has had quite a few opportunities. His catch percentage is worse in the NFL. AJ Green and Boyd's are much better. Same QBs.

Of course his catch percentage is going to be lower.  He's targeted more than they are on deeper, lower percentage throws.  He's not running the same routes or being used in the same way.

(01-01-2019, 11:40 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: That is quite true and funny.

Ross was also being held back by Marvin previously as well.

I agree;

I still maintain they did little to help Ross.

It was way more sink or swim kid than it should have been.

(01-01-2019, 11:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: Of course his catch percentage is going to be lower.  He's targeted more than they are on deeper, lower percentage throws.  He's not running the same routes or being used in the same way.

Not as much as you might think. Targeted Air Yards for Ross is 14 yards. For AJ Green it was 12.7 yards. A 1.3 yard difference. That's not really much of a difference and doesn't account for Ross having the worst catch percentage in the league.

If a player is worst at something it means he's got something significant to fix.

What Ross has going for him is that he's good at running along the back of the endzone. At least he catches those.

Ross was basically a rookies this year and with all the injuries on offense he wasn't given/allowed time to develop before being pressed into being one of the top 2 or 3 receivers on the team.

Can we just re-title this thread to "The John Ross Excuse Thread" because there are few facts and an awful lot of excuses.

(01-01-2019, 11:58 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Not as much as you might think. Targeted Air Yards for Ross is 14 yards. For AJ Green it was 12.7 yards. A 1.3 yard difference. That's not really much of a difference and doesn't account for Ross having the worst catch percentage in the league.

If a player is worst at something it means he's got something significant to fix.

What Ross has going for him is that he's good at running along the back of the endzone. At least he catches those.

The % of catchable balls he gets is much lower than Green or Boyd.  That's because he gets targeted on deep flys over and over, and then the short high % passes he sees in the red zone drop down the Targeted Air Average, as opposed to AJ who sees a lot of 10-15 yard passes.  

Nobody is saying Ross can't or doesn't need to improve, but to be declaring a 2nd year WR that scored 7 TD's a bust is just silly.

(01-02-2019, 12:46 AM)Whatever Wrote: The % of catchable balls he gets is much lower than Green or Boyd.  That's because he gets targeted on deep flys over and over, and then the short high % passes he sees in the red zone drop down the Targeted Air Average, as opposed to AJ who sees a lot of 10-15 yard passes.  

Nobody is saying Ross can't or doesn't need to improve, but to be declaring a 2nd year WR that scored 7 TD's a bust is just silly.

I've never said he was a bust. I just don't understand all the excuses and wrong reasons. We heard a parade of excuses after last season (where he was complaining about not getting on the field, then lied about being injured), now again this year.

Last year it was that he was inactive so he wasn't getting any reps so how could he advance. This year it's he was forced into service so he couldn't advance. Complete illogical statements, both of them.

Here's a link to the average targeted air yards by receiver.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-intended-yards

Notice that Ross is well down the list. Tyreek Hill is targeted for an average of 14.7 yards, which is further out than Ross get targeted. What I like about Ross is that he has developed into a decent red zone threat.

(01-02-2019, 12:19 AM)jimbengals Wrote: Ross was basically a rookies this year and with all the injuries on offense he wasn't given/allowed time to develop before being pressed into being one of the top 2 or 3 receivers on the team.

I was waiting for the Ross is basically a rookie excuse. Next year the excuse will be he has a new head coach , the year after that he has a new offense coordinator. I remember the Ogbuehi crowd calling him basically a rookie 4 years in because he finally got to play on his real side. Yep same ole same ole

(01-02-2019, 01:09 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I was waiting for the Ross is basically a rookie excuse.  Next year the excuse will be he has a new head coach , the year after that he has a new offense coordinator.   I remember the Ogbuehi crowd calling him basically a rookie 4 years in because he finally got to play on his real side.   Yep same ole same ole

Once a person gets attached to a player, it's hard to give up on them it seems. He is a bust for the round he was picked. Simple as that. Now that Marvin is gone, would be interesting to see who really wanted Ross during the draft.

(01-02-2019, 02:29 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Once a person gets attached to a player, it's hard to give up on them it seems. He is a bust for the round he was picked. Simple as that. Now that Marvin is gone, would be interesting to see who really wanted Ross during the draft.

He’s played 16 games ffs. Labeling him a definite bust at this point is ridiculous. Does he look like he might be? Kind of. But so does Billy Price and people are making plenty of excuses for him.

Patience isn’t exactly my strongest suit either, but can we wait just a little bit longer on this one? Or are people actually rooting for the kid to fail so they can be right and say I told you so?

(01-02-2019, 03:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s played 16 games ffs. Labeling him a definite bust at this point is ridiculous. Does he look like he might be? Kind of. But so does Billy Price and people are making plenty of excuses for him.

Patience isn’t exactly my strongest suit either, but can we wait just a little bit longer on this one? Or are people actually rooting for the kid to fail so they can be right and say I told you so?

I don't think he's a bust....yet. However, picking up a WR in free agency could be a very good idea. 

(01-02-2019, 01:09 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote:  I remember the Ogbuehi crowd calling him basically a rookie 4 years in because he finally got to play on his real side.   Yep same ole same ole

There was no "Ogbuehi crowd" 4 years in. 

C'mon man, this is getting silly.  Why make stuff up like that?

(01-01-2019, 11:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: Of course his catch percentage is going to be lower.  He's targeted more than they are on deeper, lower percentage throws.  He's not running the same routes or being used in the same way.

And he's not the same type of receiver. If the Bengals wanted a bigger, possession-type receiver, they would have taken one. It should be pretty clear by now they were looking for a different type of guy to complement the guys they had, not the same type.

In the 2017 draft, here were considered the three first-round WRs:
Corey Davis
Mike Williams
John Ross

Out of the three, Williams most closely resembled the bigger, slower, oven mitts, possession-type WR.
John Ross most closely resembled the speedy, big-play, deep threat type.
Davis was the closest probably to the typical well-rounded WR1's across the league. A nice blend of both.

Both Williams and Davis were gone by 9 anyway, but the Bengals already had their possession guy in Boyd and their WR1 in Green. Ross pick made sense at the time.

But if we're playing retrospective, I think the following would have made sense taking different players but same positions across the first three rounds:
1) Derek Barnett, DE (a lot of people had him mocked to Bengals, he's been better than Willis)
2) JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR (myself and some others liked him a lot as a safe WR2 pick, even I didn't think he'd have been as productive the past two seasons as he has been though)
3) Kareem Hunt, RB (he didn't have any off-field issues leading up to draft, and he was very productive in college with a well-rounded skill set)