(01-08-2019, 01:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: I only expect one DT to go in the top 10 and that is Williams. He will still go in the top 10 because he has too many Donald like similarities for a team to pass on. I feel like the next 3 or 4 DT's are pretty much interchangeable so I can see less of a drive to grab the first of the next tier.

Oliver would be tough to pass up at 11.  The way the NFL is going, it's tough to get off the field unless you have guys that can generate negative plays and get the offense off schedule.

I like White, and have no issue with him being the pick, but sitting here hoping he'll be there at 11 isn't really a plan.  They need to fix LB in FA and take White if he's the BPA.

(01-08-2019, 03:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: Oliver would be tough to pass up at 11.  The way the NFL is going, it's tough to get off the field unless you have guys that can generate negative plays and get the offense off schedule.

I like White, and have no issue with him being the pick, but sitting here hoping he'll be there at 11 isn't really a plan.  They need to fix LB in FA and take White if he's the BPA.

There are some concerns he has topped out in terms of pass rushing ability along with his attitude. I have heard some comparisons to Marcell Dareus. He would be good, probably a headache at times, but not sure he is worth that pick with the quality of the other DT's in that tier.

(01-07-2019, 08:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: I personally think there's a good chance White will be there.  Non pass rushing LB's tend to fall, and it would be tough to see somebody trading up that high for one.  

If Greedy is still sitting there at #11, I sprint that pick up to the podium no matter what.  If Dennard is resigned, I would try to package Dre and our 2nd to move up into the bottom of 1.

I like this move...but unlikely that ownership could successfully pull off...fax would be transmitted too late.

White would go a long way in helping the linebacker corps on the Bengals. Q. Williams is my favorite but I think he will be gone. I still think Haskins is a possibility. Risner in round two is also a possibility.

(01-08-2019, 01:56 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: The thing about the draft is that it is totally unpredictable.

Not only that but there are only a finite amount of picks before your team.  In our case 10.  So if one guy that you like is already taken, that usually means someone else that you thought wouldn't be there will be.  So if people want White and he is taken then that means someone they thought would go before White will be available.  Maybe J. Williams.

I wouldn't cry if we took Williams in the first and then Greg Little in the 2nd (if he is there).  

As bad as the defense was last year I actually think the OLine still needs the most help.  The Defense was terrible sure, but I think that was an aberration of the new rule, DC that tried to make round pegs fit into square holes, and injuries.  Players lost and confused most of the time.  I don't see that happening with a new HC and staff in town.  The defense actually played better after Austin left, so that leads me to think that Austin was the biggest problem.

This is why the HC will be important.  Zac Taylor or Todd Monkin would be great choices since they have been apart of the building process that turned around some bad teams.  Winning starts in the trenches and the OLine is crucial to making the offense run.

Completely disagree on a couple points. First of all.williama got his lunch money took by Clemson all damn game. Secondly you can get a Cody Ford in rd2 whose just as good but can play both spots. 

(01-09-2019, 01:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Completely disagree on a couple points. First of all.williama got his lunch money took by Clemson all damn game. Secondly you can get a Cody Ford in rd2 whose just as good but can play both spots. 

I don't think it was all damn game.  I watched some of it myself (not all, I'll admit) and when I watched I saw Williams do pretty well.  Now the QB situation in Alabama is a joke but that is another thread.  Was Williams great?  No, he wasn't, but he is far from being terrible.  Most of the pressure came from the other side of the line.  Maybe that changed in the 2nd half when all the Tigers had to do was pin their ears back and go, but that again was due to terrible QB play that put them in a hole that allowed Clemson do that.

Now if Cody Ford is just as good and can play both spots (making him better?) then we won't have a shot at Ford in rd 2.  Ford would be taken in the 1st round either before or just after Williams is selected.

Right now Williams is being touted as a top 10 pick.  Ford would be a top 20 based off of our assessment.  So either your assessment is off or we should take Ford with our first pick.

(01-09-2019, 12:55 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: I don't think it was all damn game.  I watched some of it myself (not all, I'll admit) and when I watched I saw Williams do pretty well.  Now the QB situation in Alabama is a joke but that is another thread.  Was Williams great?  No, he wasn't, but he is far from being terrible.  Most of the pressure came from the other side of the line.  Maybe that changed in the 2nd half when all the Tigers had to do was pin their ears back and go, but that again was due to terrible QB play that put them in a hole that allowed Clemson do that.

Now if Cody Ford is just as good and can play both spots (making him better?) then we won't have a shot at Ford in rd 2.  Ford would be taken in the 1st round either before or just after Williams is selected.

Right now Williams is being touted as a top 10 pick.  Ford would be a top 20 based off of our assessment.  So either your assessment is off or we should take Ford with our first pick.

The reason being that Ford last to rd2 is similar to the aubung guard last year(name escapes me at) who is now the starting rt off the colts and playing really well, Ford projects as soley a guard in the NFL despite being a stallwart left tackle for Oklahoma. That will push him to mid rd2 imo

(01-08-2019, 08:49 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: White would go a long way in helping the linebacker corps on the Bengals.  Q.  Williams is my favorite but I think he will be gone.  I still think Haskins is a possibility.  Risner in round two is also a possibility.

I think White has decided to return to LSU for his senior year  

(01-09-2019, 07:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: The reason being that Ford last to rd2 is similar to the aubung guard last year(name escapes me at) who is now the starting rt off the colts and playing really well, Ford projects as soley a guard in the NFL despite being a stallwart left tackle for Oklahoma. That will push him to mid rd2 imo

Doubt it - guards are routinely going in round 1.  

(01-09-2019, 07:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: The reason being that Ford last to rd2 is similar to the aubung guard last year(name escapes me at) who is now the starting rt off the colts and playing really well, Ford projects as soley a guard in the NFL despite being a stallwart left tackle for Oklahoma. That will push him to mid rd2 imo

Braden Smith played guard in college, was drafted to play guard, played guard in the preseason, and injuries forced him into the right tackle position.

Cody Ford plays tackle and will likely get a chance at tackle before he's kicked inside.

(01-10-2019, 12:46 AM)Synric Wrote: Braden Smith played guard in college, was drafted to play guard, played guard in the preseason, and injuries forced him into the right tackle position.

Cody Ford plays tackle and will likely get a chance at tackle before he's kicked inside.

Braden Smith played left and right tackle in college as well. Cody Ford is expected to be a guard in the NFL which is why his range will be early-mid 2nd. He's no will Hernandez or Quentin Nelson. He's Braden Smith.

(01-10-2019, 01:26 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Braden Smith played left and right tackle in college as well. Cody Ford is expected to be a guard in the NFL which is why his range will be early-mid 2nd. He's no will Hernandez or Quentin Nelson. He's Braden Smith.

No. He played right guard his entire college career.

(01-10-2019, 01:35 AM)Synric Wrote: No. He played right guard his entire college career.

Initially installed as a guard, Smith had to move to right tackle in mid-August because the Colts needed healthy bodies. The rookie had experience at several different positions in college — he played left tackle as a freshman, made a few spot starts at right tackle and spent an entire training camp at right tackle as a senior — but learning more than one spot in a complex NFL offense is an honors-level course.

(01-10-2019, 03:10 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Initially installed as a guard, Smith had to move to right tackle in mid-August because the Colts needed healthy bodies. The rookie had experience at several different positions in college — he played left tackle as a freshman, made a few spot starts at right tackle and spent an entire training camp at right tackle as a senior — but learning more than one spot in a complex NFL offense is an honors-level course.

Im wrong he did play right tackle one game in college and actually played TE in heavy packages as a freshman.

He was a college guard. Drafted to play guard. Installed as a guard and forced into tackle because of injuries.


Ford and Smith are completely different situations. Cody Ford is a full time starter at left tackle.

(01-09-2019, 07:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: The reason being that Ford last to rd2 is similar to the aubung guard last year(name escapes me at) who is now the starting rt off the colts and playing really well, Ford projects as soley a guard in the NFL despite being a stallwart left tackle for Oklahoma. That will push him to mid rd2 imo

Great Answer.  However if Ford is really as good as you are projecting him to be, then maybe he should be our 1st round pick.  I don't think he will make it to the 2nd based off of what you have stated.  However there is a chance he does make it to us in the 2nd and I can see your point in taking a guy that definitely won't be there.

I am not sold on Devin White though.  Will he be a 1st rounder?  Yep.  Will he make it to us in the 2nd?  Nope. 

I am not saying that.  What I am saying is that White strikes me as a guy that we select in the 1st round and then doesn't perform to the 1st round expectation.  Very important to understand that I don't think White will be terrible and not be productive.  However a 1st round LBer needs to be a game changer.  I don't see White as a game changer.  I wouldn't hate the pick, but I wouldn't love it either.

Here is a draft profile on him.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/05/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-devin-white/

Talks about a lack of balance and foot work.

While not flashy, I am solely an OLine guy.  I don't care who your LBers are if you have a good / great OLine, you will have success in this league.  OLine to me was worse than LBer (though we do need to address LBers, which I would do in FA), and hell I am so crazy about OLine guys that I would even invest 3 rds to OLine players.  Williams in the 1st, Little or Ford in the 2nd and if the other fell to us in the 3rd (it could happen) grab them.

Odds of missing on OLine is less than on LBer, however we HAVE missed on OLine recently, which is not surprisingly the main reason we have lost many of our games, so I wouldn't mind getting those 3 guys and if they all pan out, you have a great OLine for the next few years, if not, then 1 should at least be serviceable.  Try again next year.

We seem to go FA for LBers more than OLine or at least willing to PAY more for LBers than OLine, so using the draft to get OLine help and FA for LBers would be the way to go.  

(01-10-2019, 12:30 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Great Answer.  However if Ford is really as good as you are projecting him to be, then maybe he should be our 1st round pick.  I don't think he will make it to the 2nd based off of what you have stated.  However there is a chance he does make it to us in the 2nd and I can see your point in taking a guy that definitely won't be there.

I am not sold on Devin White though.  Will he be a 1st rounder?  Yep.  Will he make it to us in the 2nd?  Nope. 

I am not saying that.  What I am saying is that White strikes me as a guy that we select in the 1st round and then doesn't perform to the 1st round expectation.  Very important to understand that I don't think White will be terrible and not be productive.  However a 1st round LBer needs to be a game changer.  I don't see White as a game changer.  I wouldn't hate the pick, but I wouldn't love it either.

Here is a draft profile on him.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/05/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-devin-white/

Talks about a lack of balance and foot work.

While not flashy, I am solely an OLine guy.  I don't care who your LBers are if you have a good / great OLine, you will have success in this league.  OLine to me was worse than LBer (though we do need to address LBers, which I would do in FA), and hell I am so crazy about OLine guys that I would even invest 3 rds to OLine players.  Williams in the 1st, Little or Ford in the 2nd and if the other fell to us in the 3rd (it could happen) grab them.

Odds of missing on OLine is less than on LBer, however we HAVE missed on OLine recently, which is not surprisingly the main reason we have lost many of our games, so I wouldn't mind getting those 3 guys and if they all pan out, you have a great OLine for the next few years, if not, then 1 should at least be serviceable.  Try again next year.

We seem to go FA for LBers more than OLine or at least willing to PAY more for LBers than OLine, so using the draft to get OLine help and FA for LBers would be the way to go.  

I completely understand you're point. But it's not a lack of balance it's a lack of contact balance which is really not a worry to me. In the article it states pro bowler is the floor and his best attribute is an imposinf player over the middle. Basically he's burfict but without the dirty hits and he always goes for the strip. What we've been missing is a elite blitzing lber that can also she'd blocks in the run game. Thats what he brings. As far as oline I believe in westerman. But even if u don't I don't believe Ford is a will Hernandez level player which is why he would make it. And then Lindstrom if we have to trade back up into the second. But Just improving the rg spot would drastically improve the oline as u can out a te by rt and be done with it. But we have to get an elite lber. If we got Mosley in free agency and then draft white to pair with ford and lindtrom in addition to price finally being healthy we'll have a top 10 oline. But lber has to be addressed first bc after the top 2 there is nothing. Where as okkne there is solid options throughout.

(01-10-2019, 04:21 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I completely understand you're point. But it's not a lack of balance it's a lack of contact balance which is really not a worry to me. In the article it states pro bowler is the floor and his best attribute is an imposinf player over the middle. Basically he's burfict but without the dirty hits and he always goes for the strip. What we've been missing is a elite blitzing lber that can also she'd blocks in the run game. Thats what he brings. As far as oline I believe in westerman. But even if u don't I don't believe Ford is a will Hernandez level player which is why he would make it. And then Lindstrom if we have to trade back up into the second. But Just improving the rg spot would drastically improve the oline as u can out a te by rt and be done with it. But we have to get an elite lber. If we got Mosley in free agency and then draft white to pair with ford and lindtrom in addition to price finally being healthy we'll have a top 10 oline. But lber has to be addressed first bc after the top 2 there is nothing. Where as okkne there is solid options throughout.

Shame that I couldn't have had more great exchanges like this.  Unfortunately I was met with out of context attacks and left to groan at the ineptitude of the other members.  I sent a mod my request to have my account deleted, don't know how to do it myself and other members aren't aware of how to either.

With that said, I am sure White will be a good player, I see him as a Keith Rivers though, solid but not special.  If he is our selection then I hope I am wrong and he is Burfict but with ice cream.  As I said I wouldn't hate the pick, but as of now, I wouldn't love it.  BTW Hobspin has us taking a DT, talk about a bad selection.

(01-10-2019, 04:54 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Shame that I couldn't have had more great exchanges like this.  Unfortunately I was met with out of context attacks and left to groan at the ineptitude of the other members.  I sent a mod my request to have my account deleted, don't know how to do it myself and other members aren't aware of how to either.

With that said, I am sure White will be a good player, I see him as a Keith Rivers though, solid but not special.  If he is our selection then I hope I am wrong and he is Burfict but with ice cream.  As I said I wouldn't hate the pick, but as of now, I wouldn't love it.  BTW Hobspin has us taking a DT, talk about a bad selection.

The only way I would be even semi okay with that is if it was Ed Oliver. Outside of that Wilkins isn't worth it at all.

Nervous as hell white hasn't declared yet!

(01-14-2019, 12:37 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Nervous as hell white hasn't declared yet!

Same. I was just logging in to write something about that. It would be hard for this kid to pass up top 15 pick money but he is a Louisiana kid so he might want to stay at LSU for one more season. It doesn't happen as often now but that is a respectable move for the kid if he decides that since he is a team leader already.