(02-20-2019, 01:51 PM)McC Wrote: Absolutely.  True will be true, whether it works out for the best or the worst.  It wasn't a prediction, just a statement of common sense.  Common sense, it's that thing people used to treasure.

Wouldn't common sense tell you that expecting statistical outliers to prove successful is a fool's errand?

52 year old DB coaches who last coordinated defenses for the Maytag Company's annual Flag Football tournament aren't normally going to be good hires.   

(02-20-2019, 02:09 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Wouldn't common sense tell you that expecting statistical outliers to prove successful is a fool's errand?

52 year old DB coaches who last coordinated defenses for the Maytag Company's annual Flag Football tournament aren't normally going to be good hires.   

I didn't or won't make any predictions on how he might do.  All I've said all along is there's only one thing that will tell.  I'm okay with waiting to find out.  No prediction I make based on anything will have the tiniest effect on the process.  Fit me for the strait jacket.

Are there guys who were never NFL HC's, OC's, DSC's who succeeded?  And are there others who failed?  Yes and yes.  Makes predicting inexact, doesn't it?

(02-20-2019, 01:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He said that? I wonder how AJ Green, Atkins, Dalton, Dunlap etc would feel about that, given their ages.

Yep, wish I can find it but it's like searching for needle in haystack.

(02-20-2019, 02:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yep, wish I can find it but it's like searching for needle in haystack.

I saw it too.  Passed it off as Hobs Hobs-ing. 

Kind of defies logic that a team looking to put behinds back in seats would basically write off a season, and the rookie season of their new HC, to boot.  Doesn't seem like the path to bringing fans back.

(02-20-2019, 01:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I respond with a whopping "well, duh". But you know what started this? You said Anarumo has a better resume than Pleasant.

Since we're not allowed to look at relevant rankings to their position groups - or team success - or coaches they've worked under, why don't you tell me what the heck you were talking about when you said "resume". I'll tell you what teams look at. They look at team success, coaches worked under, and success of the position group. Shit, those things are precisely why Zac Taylor got the HC gig. 

Easy with position position coaches you look at the players they drafted and coached up. 

Aubrey Pleasants has been able to coach a group of veterans in his 2 years though they all played at a high level. Lou Anarumo has a couple names like Xavier Howard and really turning Rashad Jones into that great safety but outside of those guys the rest has been mediocre.

As defensive coordinators neither one of these guys look good but if you're going by resume experience wins... especially since Lou Anarumo has actual experience setting up run fits as an interm DC.

So yes Anamuro resume is easily better and by how Aubrey Pleasants named dropped off after the Bengals interviewed him apparently he wasnt that impressive.

(02-20-2019, 01:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yep, and Sam pegged a 47 year old secondary coach as his new DC, who had no prior DC experience. 

That was the whole point of that thread, and me bringing it back up.  You don't know, until you do.  To be honest, I had no idea just how inexperienced that staff was until I looked it up.  There are a lot of parallels here.  Now, in no way am I saying this means Taylor will be at least as good as Wyche, I'm just trying to say maybe folks should back away from the ledge a bit here......


Side note:  in his lone season as a HC and calling plays, Sam Wyche was 1-11 at IU, and was hired as the Bengals' HC the following year.  He was also a QB coach prior.  He had exactly 5 years coaching experience TOTAL before becoming the head man in Cincy.  Only 4 years as a QB coach in SF, and 1 year at IU.  He was a grad assistant at S. Car. before playing for the Wheeling Ironmen.

If social media was around in those days, people's heads would have exploded when he was named HC.

(02-20-2019, 02:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: That was the whole point of that thread, and me bringing it back up.  You don't know, until you do.  To be honest, I had no idea just how inexperienced that staff was until I looked it up.  There are a lot of parallels here.  Now, in no way am I saying this means Taylor will be at least as good as Wyche, I'm just trying to say maybe folks should back away from the ledge a bit here......


Side note:  in his lone season as a HC and calling plays, Sam Wyche was 1-11 at IU, and was hired as the Bengals' HC the following year.  He was also a QB coach prior.  He had exactly 5 years coaching experience TOTAL before becoming the head man in Cincy.  Only 4 years as a QB coach in SF, and 1 year at IU.  He was a grad assistant at S. Car. before playing for the Wheeling Ironmen.

If social media was around in those days, people's heads would have exploded when he was named HC.

No doubt about that.  The phrase one and eleven would have been used to the point it would have lost all meaning.

(02-20-2019, 02:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: That was the whole point of that thread, and me bringing it back up.  You don't know, until you do.  To be honest, I had no idea just how inexperienced that staff was until I looked it up.  There are a lot of parallels here.  Now, in no way am I saying this means Taylor will be at least as good as Wyche, I'm just trying to say maybe folks should back away from the ledge a bit here......


Side note:  in his lone season as a HC and calling plays, Sam Wyche was 1-11 at IU, and was hired as the Bengals' HC the following year.  He was also a QB coach prior.  He had exactly 5 years coaching experience TOTAL before becoming the head man in Cincy.  Only 4 years as a QB coach in SF, and 1 year at IU.  He was a grad assistant at S. Car. before playing for the Wheeling Ironmen.

If social media was around in those days, people's heads would have exploded when he was named HC.

Oh hell, no doubt about it. The Bengals hiring a head coach who didn't even have any coordinator experience and who's only HC experience was one failed season at the college level? If social media had of existed then, craniums would've been exploding all over the place...and Paul's sanity would have been a trending topic of debate. 

Could you imagine Sam's 'I've got better things to do' comment in this day and age? He would be eviscerated!

(02-19-2019, 10:51 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Defensive coordinator is the most important hire for Zach to get right (if he’s hoping to win this year). I was hoping for an innovative guy that could adapt to the modern game. We’ll see. Thats my take. Del Rio seemed like a slam dunk hire to me, but what do I know?
I feel like Zach is on a short leash with fans from the get go, so he better get this offense playing at an elite level in year one. Fix the oline and put something together on offense or he’s a bust in my opinion. Hope he succeeds and we can figure the defense out with the right coach. We’ll see.

(02-19-2019, 11:27 PM)McC Wrote: Yeah, that's not goofy at all.  Chapionship in year one or fire him, right?

Didnt say that. We have the playmakers to be an elite offense in my opinion. If he cant get one or two more players on the offensive line and get a scheme together to fulfill our potential on offense, he’s a bust. He’s supposed to be an offensive genius. I think its perfectly reasonable to let go of him if he proves otherwise.

(02-20-2019, 02:54 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Didnt say that. We have the playmakers to be an elite offense in my opinion. If he cant get one or two more players on the offensive line and get a scheme together to fulfill our potential on offense, he’s a bust. He’s supposed to be an offensive genius. I think its perfectly reasonable to let go of him if he proves otherwise.

where is it said hes an offensive genius?



The word genius gets thrown around too generously....hell if thats the case Im a posting genius on here! 

(02-20-2019, 02:54 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Didnt say that. We have the playmakers to be an elite offense in my opinion. If he cant get one or two more players on the offensive line and get a scheme together to fulfill our potential on offense, he’s a bust. He’s supposed to be an offensive genius. I think its perfectly reasonable to let go of him if he proves otherwise.

Okay.  My bad.  I gotta think addressing the line is priority one on the offense.  I'd like to see it done, at least partially in FA and then further in the draft.  Wouldn't want to have to start too many rookies on the line.

(02-20-2019, 02:21 PM)McC Wrote: I didn't or won't make any predictions on how he might do.  All I've said all along is there's only one thing that will tell.  I'm okay with waiting to find out.  No prediction I make based on anything will have the tiniest effect on the process.  Fit me for the strait jacket.

Are there guys who were never NFL HC's, OC's, DSC's who succeeded?  And are there others who failed?  Yes and yes.  Makes predicting inexact, doesn't it?

So then, ultimately, the point of message board discussion is to create new and original ways to post derivatives of "let's wait and see what happens, friends."

(02-20-2019, 03:30 PM)GodFather Wrote: where is it said hes an offensive genius?



The word genius gets thrown around too generously....hell if thats the case Im a posting genius on here! 

Well...we know the offense of the Cincy Bearcats regressed under his coaching. He wasn't great with the Dolphins.

Oh...he was with the Rams. He was the assistant WR's coach in 2017 when Goff became good. Then in 2018 he was the QB coach.

I don't even know we can pin Goffs development on him, since he was the assistant WR's coach then.

People seem to be attributing McVays attributes to him.

(02-20-2019, 03:33 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So then, ultimately, the point of message board discussion is to create new and original ways to post derivatives of "let's wait and see what happens, friends."

...and the exact opposite, which there's a fair share of as well. Everyone gets their say here.  :andy:

(02-20-2019, 03:33 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So then, ultimately, the point of message board discussion is to create new and original ways to post derivatives of "let's wait and see what happens, friends."

Yes - The only posts that will be tolerated are: 'Despite his track record showing otherwise, he may turn out good or bad here. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.'

Then, when they fail...'Lets give him more time.'

(02-20-2019, 03:33 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So then, ultimately, the point of message board discussion is to create new and original ways to post derivatives of "let's wait and see what happens, friends."

Not really.  I'm just presenting that side of the story for consideration, old fashioned as that kind of thinking may be.

Now, I will admit, I do have a somewhat pathological urge to respond to mind reading, assumption, presumption and seeing the future.  But that's just me.  And that's why there's chocolate, strawberry, rocky road, etc. in addition to vanilla.

(02-20-2019, 03:43 PM)McC Wrote: Not really.  I'm just presenting that side of the story for consideration, old fashioned as that kind of thinking may be.

Now, I will admit, I do have a somewhat pathological urge to respond to mind reading, assumption, presumption and seeing the future.  But that's just me.  And that's why there's chocolate, strawberry, rocky road, etc. in addition to vanilla.

And it's fine to do that on both sides.

But, like Fred said...these coaches all do have track records. Taylor's has been mediocre outside of his stint with the Rams. He can't even be credited with Goff's development as he was the Assistant WR coach then.

That said, MAYBE he will be a better HC than OC. Some guys are like that. They are better at leadership and qualities like that than actually calling plays. But, Taylor wants to call the plays here...which he was mediocre at at UC.

(02-20-2019, 03:30 PM)GodFather Wrote: where is it said hes an offensive genius?



The word genius gets thrown around too generously....hell if thats the case Im a posting genius on here! 

He’s been sold to us as an offensive-minded coach. He was brought here to bring our offense to new heights. If he cant get us to our potential on offense then why keep him around?

No judgement being made on my part. Im hopeful this works out. But if it doesnt, we should all be done making excuses. In a few more years our best players will be aging rapidly.

(02-20-2019, 03:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And it's fine to do that on both sides.

But, like Fred said...these coaches all do have track records. Taylor's has been mediocre outside of his stint with the Rams. He can't even be credited with Goff's development as he was the Assistant WR coach then.

That said, MAYBE he will be a better HC than OC. Some guys are like that. They are better at leadership and qualities like that than actually calling plays. But, Taylor wants to call the plays here...which he was mediocre at at UC.

Seems pretty obvious you are not aware of the QB situation there.

(02-20-2019, 03:47 PM)McC Wrote: Seems pretty obvious you are not aware of the QB situation there.

So he needs a great QB to succeed?

How about the Dolphins? He mentored Tannehill for what 4 years? Tannehill is close to being waived or traded now.