(02-18-2019, 08:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Chargers game, right before halftime.  Down 12-14 we go for two and Westerman gives up the sack.

Was that before or after Redmond jumped early when we inside the 5 and basically killed a possible TD?

(02-19-2019, 08:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As Wolf said, Marv decided playing time which is why Westerman didn't start over Redmond. As far as how all of these players have played, Westerman has been better than Redmond as Wolf has the stats to back that up. Whats up Fred? You don't like the stats? Thought you were a stat guy?

I'm of the mindset that neither Redmond or Westerman are starter quality.  If I were forced to pick one of the two, to keep around as a backup?  It would likely be Westerman.  This team is not only hamstrung by the Tackle position on the OL, but they also need a starting RG, as well.  

Merv's MO was playing certain guys when the backups had more potential or were clearly better. No doubt part of his arrogant nature. He knows best. "I see better than I hear" was a comical statement he made several times. He clearly did not see how shitty his LB picks were, how shitty Nickerson was, or Redmond, etc.

(02-19-2019, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm of the mindset that neither Redmond or Westerman are starter quality.  If I were forced to pick one of the two, to keep around as a backup?  It would likely be Westerman.  This team is not only hamstrung by the Tackle position on the OL, but they also need a starting RG, as well.  

I agree, just saying that Westerman is better than Redmond from what we have seen.

Fred seems to disagree with this sentiment.

(02-23-2019, 04:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree, just saying that Westerman is better than Redmond from what we have seen.

Fred seems to disagree with this sentiment.

Does it really matter if his opinion agrees with yours?  I consider your opinion just as valuable as his, mine, or any longstanding, informed fan.

(02-23-2019, 04:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Does it really matter if his opinion agrees with yours?  I consider your opinion just as valuable as his, mine, or any longstanding, informed fan.

Nope, doesn't matter it was just a discussion that we seem to always have.

Hope we don't have to have this discussion anymore under Zac and he starts the best players. That would be quite nice.

I sure like the way Zac speaks and if we get a couple decent O-lineman this Offense should be very good under his reigns.

I like that Zac is bringing in coaches that he is comfortable with and Jim Turner is one of them and i am williing to give him a chance no matter what happened in Miami. Sounds like a fiery type of coach and i like that a heck of a lot better than what we had in the Piano Man.

(02-23-2019, 04:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nope, doesn't matter it was just a discussion that we seem to always have.

Hope we don't have to have this discussion anymore under Zac and he starts the best players. That would be quite nice.

I sure like the way Zac speaks and if we get a couple decent O-lineman this Offense should be very good under his reigns.

I like that Zac is bringing in coaches that he is comfortable with and Jim Turner is one of them and i am williing to give him a chance no matter what happened in Miami. Sounds like a fiery type of coach and i like that a heck of a lot better than what we had in the Piano Man.

One of the Cons with coaches selecting and scouting players is they may stick with an underperforming player to try to prove they were right on him whereas replacing him signals they were wrong.

You see that more in other sports where the coach is also the GM, but sometimes in the NFL too.

(02-23-2019, 09:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: One of the Cons with coaches selecting and scouting players is they may stick with an underperforming player to try to prove they were right on him whereas replacing him signals they were wrong.

You see that more in other sports where the coach is also the GM, but sometimes in the NFL too.

Coaches are heavily involved in scouting and selecting players on all 32 teams.

In the past more scouts was a thing but how technology has evolved it's less important to have a large scouting department and more important to have the good scouts and coaches evaluating players.

(02-23-2019, 09:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Coaches are heavily involved in scouting and selecting players on all 32 teams.

In the past more scouts was a thing but how technology has evolved it's less important to have a large scouting department and more important to have the good scouts and coaches evaluating players.

Coaches are great scouts, as they know exactly what they are looking for in a player.  However, it's also nice to have dedicated scouts that are in tune with what the coaches are looking for, so that the coaches can keep their attention where it belongs, on the team..

(02-23-2019, 09:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Coaches are heavily involved in scouting and selecting players on all 32 teams.

In the past more scouts was a thing but how technology has evolved it's less important to have a large scouting department and more important to have the good scouts and coaches evaluating players.

Yeah - You can go to their websites and see that teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, and Browns all have 2-3 times as many people in the Player Personnel Dept as us.

(02-23-2019, 09:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Coaches are great scouts, as they know exactly what they are looking for in a player.  However, it's also nice to have dedicated scouts that are in tune with what the coaches are looking for, so that the coaches can keep their attention where it belongs, on the team..

Coaches on all 32 teams are heavily involved in the scouting process. Every team sends them to college the all star games, combine and pro days. Coaches work the entire offseason scouting players for the draft and in free agency.

The scouting process is alot different than it was in the 90s. Coaches can go to any scouting event like a player go back to the media department and have the tape on them instantly. Alot of NFL teams hold their own "Pro Day" for players for smaller schools to show up and can have tape of those events any team holds. 

(02-23-2019, 10:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah - You can go to their websites and see that teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, and Browns all have 2-3 times as many people in the Player Personnel Dept as us.

And with that smaller personnel department the Bengals had nearly twice as many players they drafted playing in the NFL than the league average in 2018. 

There are currently 57 players on NFL rosters drafted by the #Bengals.
That is the most produced by any team in the NFL.
Baltimore/NewEngland/
San Francisco/Seattle are tied for 2nd with 44 players.

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) October 4, 2018

(02-23-2019, 10:38 PM)Synric Wrote: And with that smaller personnel department the Bengals had nearly twice as many players they drafted playing in the NFL than the league average in 2018. 

There are currently 57 players on NFL rosters drafted by the #Bengals.
That is the most produced by any team in the NFL.
Baltimore/NewEngland/
San Francisco/Seattle are tied for 2nd with 44 players.

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) October 4, 2018

I will say that for a 3-4 year span we had some really good drafts with Dalton/Green/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap...but our past 4 or so drafts have been really poor.

Had we consistently drafted like we did over those 3-4 years, we would have been able to lose free agents and still win.

(02-23-2019, 09:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: One of the Cons with coaches selecting and scouting players is they may stick with an underperforming player to try to prove they were right on him whereas replacing him signals they were wrong.

You see that more in other sports where the coach is also the GM, but sometimes in the NFL too.

That sounds exactly like Piano Man and Marv honestly.

We don't know if this still exists now cause of the clean sweep that has went on.

(02-23-2019, 09:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Coaches are heavily involved in scouting and selecting players on all 32 teams.

In the past more scouts was a thing but how technology has evolved it's less important to have a large scouting department and more important to have the good scouts and coaches evaluating players.

So true.

(02-23-2019, 09:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Coaches are great scouts, as they know exactly what they are looking for in a player.  However, it's also nice to have dedicated scouts that are in tune with what the coaches are looking for, so that the coaches can keep their attention where it belongs, on the team..

Thats what i like about what is happening now with Zac, communication is his greatest strength and he is getting all his coaches in line that he communicates great with so they are all on the same page. Awesome thing going on.

(02-23-2019, 10:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah - You can go to their websites and see that teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, and Browns all have 2-3 times as many people in the Player Personnel Dept as us.

Belichick has stated that you can have too many minds as well.

It is not like the Pats have an ungodly amount of scouts.

(02-23-2019, 10:38 PM)Synric Wrote: And with that smaller personnel department the Bengals had nearly twice as many players they drafted playing in the NFL than the league average in 2018. 

There are currently 57 players on NFL rosters drafted by the #Bengals.
That is the most produced by any team in the NFL.
Baltimore/NewEngland/
San Francisco/Seattle are tied for 2nd with 44 players.

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) October 4, 2018

Good stuff Synric. Not a bad thing to be #1 at either.

(02-23-2019, 11:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I will say that for a 3-4 year span we had some really good drafts with Dalton/Green/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap...but our past 4 or so drafts have been really poor.

Had we consistently drafted like we did over those 3-4 years, we would have been able to lose free agents and still win.

Are you saying Mixon, Lawson, Boyd, WJ3, Bates and Hubbard were bad drafts?

Hell, Price might even become that stud Center for us we have always needed which i am still predicting.

Our one draft where we drafted Og makes all of our drafts look worse than they really were.

(02-24-2019, 03:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That sounds exactly like Piano Man and Marv honestly.

We don't know if this still exists now cause of the clean sweep that has went on.


So true.


Thats what i like about what is happening now with Zac, communication is his greatest strength and he is getting all his coaches in line that he communicates great with so they are all on the same page. Awesome thing going on.


Belichick has stated that you can have too many minds as well.

It is not like the Pats have an ungodly amount of scouts.


Good stuff Synric. Not a bad thing to be #1 at either.


Are you saying Mixon, Lawson, Bates and Hubbard were bad drafts?

Hell, Price might even become that stud Center for us we have always needed which i am still predicting.

Our one draft where we drafted Og makes all of our drafts look worse than they really were.

Don’t forget Boyd and WJ3.

(02-24-2019, 04:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Don’t forget Boyd and WJ3.

No doubt, how did i forget about those guys? Will edit.

(02-24-2019, 03:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Are you saying Mixon, Lawson, Boyd, WJ3, Bates and Hubbard were bad drafts?

Hell, Price might even become that stud Center for us we have always needed which i am still predicting.

Our one draft where we drafted Og makes all of our drafts look worse than they really were.

I'd say the 2014 and 15 drafts were pretty bad and are the main reason why the team has dropped off the last 3 seasons. Dennard, Uzomah, and Kroft are our best players from those respective drafts and they're free agents in a couple weeks. The rest were bad picks or didn't offer anything long term (Hill & McCarron). Losing great players to FA like Sanu, Whit, Jones, Zeitler will always hurt but failing to draft guys that can step up and be solid at the very least in replacement of those players hurt too. The Bengals don't make splash signings in FA so they need to have good drafts and keep players when their contracts expire. They've done that for the most part, but not every draft is going to have gems past the 3rd round. That's why you need a healthy mix of FA signings and drafting.

But they've rebounded greatly with the last few drafts. Mixon, Lawson, Boyd, WJ3, Bates and Hubbard is the group of players that ZT is going to build around along with this upcoming draft. Hoping we can eventually throw Ross into that group. Vigil and Billings have improved every season and Glasgow is a solid role player. Malik Jefferson, Darius Phillips, and Jordan Willis were well-regarded players in college, maybe we'll see some growth from them? Definitely a lot of young talent on this team and it'll be fun to see if ZT can put it together.

(02-24-2019, 06:54 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: I'd say the 2014 and 15 drafts were pretty bad and are the main reason why the team has dropped off the last 3 seasons. Dennard, Uzomah, and Kroft are our best players from those respective drafts and they're free agents in a couple weeks. The rest were bad picks or didn't offer anything long term (Hill & McCarron). Losing great players to FA like Sanu, Whit, Jones, Zeitler will always hurt but failing to draft guys that can step up and be solid at the very least in replacement of those players hurt too. The Bengals don't make splash signings in FA so they need to have good drafts and keep players when their contracts expire. They've done that for the most part, but not every draft is going to have gems past the 3rd round. That's why you need a healthy mix of FA signings and drafting.

But they've rebounded greatly with the last few drafts. Mixon, Lawson, Boyd, WJ3, Bates and Hubbard is the group of players that ZT is going to build around along with this upcoming draft. Hoping we can eventually throw Ross into that group. Vigil and Billings have improved every season and Glasgow is a solid role player. Malik Jefferson, Darius Phillips, and Jordan Willis were well-regarded players in college, maybe we'll see some growth from them? Definitely a lot of young talent on this team and it'll be fun to see if ZT can put it together.

Great post, man i sure hope we start to do things a little differently in FA and grab a top Linebacker and a top O-lineman to really free up the Draft. With the clean sweep and Taylor now here things might be starting to change for the better and we might see atleast one of these positions addressed with a top FA for once.

Atleast i have some hope for this after last Offseason and now this season with moving on from Marv and company. Seeing some different things going on and it has me excited. We need atleast 4 new starters at LB and OL though. I am not expecting Turner to be able to turn Redmond and Hart into quality starters, that is for sure.

(02-24-2019, 07:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post, man i sure hope we start to do things a little differently in FA and grab a top Linebacker and a top O-lineman to really free up the Draft. With the clean sweep and Taylor now here things might be starting to change for the better and we might see atleast one of these positions addressed with a top FA for once.

Atleast i have some hope for this after last Offseason and now this season with moving on from Marv and company. Seeing some different things going on and it has me excited. We need atleast 4 new starters at LB and OL though. I am not expecting Turner to be able to turn Redmond and Hart into quality starters, that is for sure.

I'd say the best way we can free up the draft is by signing Juwaun James, RT.

I would think that Taylor would want a QB or WR if he had his ideal choice. We just have too many needs.

(02-19-2019, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm of the mindset that neither Redmond or Westerman are starter quality.  If I were forced to pick one of the two, to keep around as a backup?  It would likely be Westerman.  This team is not only hamstrung by the Tackle position on the OL, but they also need a starting RG, as well.  

x2. 

(02-23-2019, 10:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah - You can go to their websites and see that teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, and Browns all have 2-3 times as many people in the Player Personnel Dept as us.

That's just one of those things that Mike has dug his heels in on, and it won't change til he's gone. He wants to win, but he wants to win "his way".

(02-23-2019, 10:38 PM)Synric Wrote: And with that smaller personnel department the Bengals had nearly twice as many players they drafted playing in the NFL than the league average in 2018. 

There are currently 57 players on NFL rosters drafted by the #Bengals.
That is the most produced by any team in the NFL.
Baltimore/NewEngland/
San Francisco/Seattle are tied for 2nd with 44 players.

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) October 4, 2018

How many of those players are on our roster? Because I'm not sure being on the roster of a 6-10 team is a big accomplishment.

Also, quality >>> quantity. How many pro-bowlers or all-pro's have we drafted in comparison to other teams?