(04-04-2019, 10:41 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Absolutely, and finally draft a NFL ready prospect at the LB position.  Personnel development at some positions were a weakness of the previous staff, IMO.  We just have to hope that Taylor is as advertised, and his selections on the staff are good teachers and motivators.

Agreed. You get what you pay for.

I believe you need a difference maker on all three lines of defense.

To your point, we need the first pick to be a LB. The LSU kid.

We would have to move up to at least 9 to get him. Maybe we have built enough goodwill with Buffalo to get it done with out first and third.

I don't believe in the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart. It's archaic, doesn't take into account the value of specific prospects, and is not reflective of current FA landscape.

(04-03-2019, 10:53 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I have always liked two back sets. With a TE that is a pass catching threat, a two back set can be virtually indefensible - especially if both backs can catch.

You get 5 receiving options with the luxury of three serving as blockers if needed.

Bernard on a wheel route on any LB is a mismatch. Eifert on a LB is win.

If they counter with three safeties, you bludgeon them with runs up the gut.

When you look at the skill offensive positions on this Team, it's scary. Obviously none of it matters if the line can't block, but I think this unit will benefit from having been together for one year.

Spot on brother, that is unpredictable and i just cannot understand why Lazor didn't do this especially once injuries piled up to our WR's. The Defense cannot know if it is run or pass in these sets and the Offense is the aggressor. With Mixon and Gio you have the ultimate weapons for just this Offense. I am betting an offensive mind like Taylor along with Callahan should see this.

Perfect for the NFL today and we have the perfect backs for it.

(04-03-2019, 10:57 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Or Zeitler.

Well Zeit got overpaid by the Stains, i wouldn't of paid that much for him.

Is he an excellent pass blocker? Yes, but his run blocking leaves much to be desired.

(04-04-2019, 01:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Spot on brother, that is unpredictable and i just cannot understand why Lazor didn't do this especially once injuries piled up to our WR's. The Defense cannot know if it is run or pass in these sets and the Offense is the aggressor. With Mixon and Gio you have the ultimate weapons for just this Offense. I am betting an offensive mind like Taylor along with Callahan should see this.

Perfect for the NFL today and we have the perfect backs for it.


Well Zeit got overpaid by the Stains, i wouldn't of paid that much for him.

Is he an excellent pass blocker? Yes, but his run blocking leaves much to be desired.

......BUT Zeitler could have been extended ahead of DeCastro for cheaper had the chowderheads in control had the foresight to do so, and didn't think guard play is not important.  They ****** that up big time.

(04-04-2019, 02:24 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: ......BUT Zeitler could have been extended ahead of DeCastro for cheaper had the chowderheads in control had the foresight to do so, and didn't think guard play is not important.  They ****** that up big time.

Thats true Wyche, they waited too long and didn't have their priorities in order.

The trenches is where you win games.

(04-04-2019, 02:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thats true Wyche, they waited too long and didn't have their priorities in order.

The trenches is where you win games.

You know it my brother.  I would think that if you invest a 1st round pick on a guy, and he starts day 1 and plays well, you'd want to extend a guy like that before he even gets the chance to hit FA.  Once the ink was dry on DeCastro in Shitsburgh, the writing was on the wall in Cincy.  Big mistake.

(04-04-2019, 02:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thats true Wyche, they waited too long and didn't have their priorities in order.

The trenches is where you win games.

(04-04-2019, 02:55 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You know it my brother.  I would think that if you invest a 1st round pick on a guy, and he starts day 1 and plays well, you'd want to extend a guy like that before he even gets the chance to hit FA.  Once the ink was dry on DeCastro in Shitsburgh, the writing was on the wall in Cincy.  Big mistake.

I know we have talked about this all in the past, but dang it, it just feels therapeutic to again point out one of the main reasons for our offensive miseries.

Let's hope we strike gold in round 2, like we did with Whit, and get a world class bodyguard for our QB.

(04-04-2019, 03:41 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I know we have talked about this all in the past, but dang it, it just feels therapeutic to again point out one of the main reasons for our offensive miseries.

Let's hope we strike gold in round 2, like we did with Whit, and get a world class bodyguard for our QB.

Amen my friend.....amen.  Happened with Palmer too.

(04-04-2019, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....BUT Zeitler could have been extended ahead of DeCastro for cheaper had the chowderheads in control had the foresight to do so,

Link?

I don't remember Zeitler saying how much he would sign for.

(04-04-2019, 11:35 AM)Wyche Wrote:   This team should have known from the jump that Ole' hi would never get it....everyone else did.

"Everyone else" also said William Jackson, Andre Smith, and Dre Kirkpatrick were busts who would never amount to anything.

And just one year ago "everyone else" was saying we had to replace Tyler Boyd.

Funny how no one ever mentions that.

(04-04-2019, 09:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link?

I don't remember Zeitler saying how much he would sign for.

He didn't that I recall, but DeCastro's contract set the market, and it was higher than the Bengals were willing to pay.  I'm just going off the timeline of events, and how the FA market plays out accordingly.  Had they extended before the Stoolers did with DeCastro, the price may have been more team friendly.

(04-04-2019, 09:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Everyone else" also said William Jackson, Andre Smith, and Dre Kirkpatrick were busts who would never amount to anything.

And just one year ago "everyone else" was saying we had to replace Tyler Boyd.

Funny how no one ever mentions that.

I had faith in Boyd due to the rookie year, and William Jackson.  I felt Andre was at least a decent to good T, but admit I wasn't sold on Dre.  That said, no one could have watched Og and thought he was going to pan out.  I mean, he was really bad, and showed no heart.  Lack of talent is one thing, but no heart is another.  For as much grief as Hart gets, at least he doesn't outright quit on plays.

(04-05-2019, 09:31 AM)Wyche Wrote: He didn't that I recall, but DeCastro's contract set the market, and it was higher than the Bengals were willing to pay.  I'm just going off the timeline of events, and how the FA market plays out accordingly.  Had they extended before the Stoolers did with DeCastro, the price may have been more team friendly.


I had faith in Boyd due to the rookie year, and William Jackson.  I felt Andre was at least a decent to good T, but admit I wasn't sold on Dre.  That said, no one could have watched Og and thought he was going to pan out.  I mean, he was really bad, and showed no heart. Lack of talent is one thing, but no heart is another.  For as much grief as Hart gets, at least he doesn't outright quit on plays.

That was always my biggest complaint ! He'd get beat by a DE on a play, and the play continued for several more seconds and he'd just stand there hands on hips and say good luck fellas. No attempt to reengage at all

(04-04-2019, 09:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Everyone else" also said William Jackson, Andre Smith, and Dre Kirkpatrick were busts who would never amount to anything.

And just one year ago "everyone else" was saying we had to replace Tyler Boyd.

Funny how no one ever mentions that.

Funny not a single player you mentioned has been to a Pro Bowl. Making a pick in the first round means you think they could be the best in the league at their position. Being a "good" player doesn't justify being picked in the first round. The jury is still out on Jackson and Boyd( who was a second rounder) but Dre and Andre, in hindsight, definitely were not good value picks.

(04-05-2019, 10:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Funny not a single player you mentioned has been to a Pro Bowl. Making a pick in the first round means you think they could be the best in the league at their position. Being a "good" player doesn't justify being picked in the first round. 

Only 114 of 320 first round picks over the last decade have become Pro Bowl players.  I assume some players taken in the last couple years will eventually develop into Pro Bowl players, but it still looks like way less than half of first round picks become Pro Bowlers.

I don't think it would be fair to say over half of the league's first round picks were not justified.  The standard needs to reflect reality.

(04-05-2019, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Only 114 of 320 first round picks over the last decade have become Pro Bowl players.  I assume some players taken in the last couple years will eventually develop into Pro Bowl players, but it still looks like way less than half of first round picks become Pro Bowlers.

I don't think it would be fair to say over half of the league's first round picks were not justified.  The standard needs to reflect reality.

It would be fair to say that most aren't worth their draft position but a completely different story when you tout them as successful first rounders. I guess when you compare them to Ogbuehi they are super stars.

(04-04-2019, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: ......BUT Zeitler could have been extended ahead of DeCastro for cheaper had the chowderheads in control had the foresight to do so, and didn't think guard play is not important.  They ****** that up big time.

^^ Exactly!

 

(04-05-2019, 12:08 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: It would be fair to say that most aren't worth their draft position but a completely different story when you tout them as successful first rounders. I guess when you compare them to Ogbuehi they are super stars.

I don't have to compare them to Ogbuehi to make them good players.

You can't say a pick is a faliure because he did not make a Pro Bowl unless you are going to claim that league wide 2 thirds of first round picks are failures.

Can Zac Taylor change the culture here?

Absolutely. The Walton cut is a good start. Discipline or even holding others accountable has not been the way of the Bengals since ML ruled here (seemed longer than the Roman Empire).

(04-05-2019, 10:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That was always my biggest complaint ! He'd get beat by a DE on a play, and the play continued for several more seconds and he'd just stand there hands on hips and say good luck fellas. No attempt to reengage at all

That's cause he knew he'd just get beat again. You have to conserve energy for the next play when he'd get worked again.

Can he? Absolutely.

Will he is the main question.

So far, complete overhaul for the Bengals coaches.
New head coach, offensive coordinator, and defensive coordinator.
New Personnel executive, two scouting directors.
Six new coaches on the offensive side.
Six new coaches on the defensive side.
Three new strength and conditioning coaches.
A director of coaching operations.

It also sounds like meetings with Mike Brown are more inclusive, rather than just meeting one on one like Brown did with Lewis, many more are involved now.

So on the coaching side it's a complete change.

They even cut two players that badly needed cut (Burfict and Walton).

The biggest "same old, same old" is free agency. It was probably the worst free agency in recent memory.

But we'll see how it all goes when it comes to the actual season. That's when you truly see character.

He may get a short term change but for the change to be sustainable he will need top level management to change. Otherwise it will stall and fail. It HAS to be top down to be sustained