(06-03-2019, 08:58 AM)cj1895 Wrote: Yes, I've played fantasy football. like I said above, please name a player that has broken out year three with less than 220 yards receiving the first two years of their career...The answer is zero.  Better yet lets round up to 350 yards over the first two seasons...

If this guy was a 3rd round to 5th round pick he would probably have already have been cut, hence my comment about the organization hanging on too long with high draft picks.

Jerome Simpson had worse stats than that and broke out in year 4.  

Wes Welker had 429 yards and 1 TD his first two years while being perfectly healthy.  It's not a stretch to say Ross would have hit that yardage mark if healthy his rookie year.

No team is cutting a guy on a rookie contract coming off a 7 TD season unless they have off field issues or problems with the coaches.

(06-03-2019, 09:44 AM)Whatever Wrote: Jerome Simpson had worse stats than that and broke out in year 4.  

Wes Welker had 429 yards and 1 TD his first two years while being perfectly healthy.  It's not a stretch to say Ross would have hit that yardage mark if healthy his rookie year.

No team is cutting a guy on a rookie contract coming off a 7 TD season unless they have off field issues or problems with the coaches.

Jerome Simpson still put up more yards his second year than Ross has his entire career.  Hell he had two games over 100 yards and only played 6 games the second season, still had more yards and a higher YPC.

Wes Welker was an undrafted free agent who again had more receptions and more yards than Ross in his second year.  He was on the practice squad year one and a 3rd or 4th option on Miami year 2. He only started 1 game in those two years, Ross started 16.

Neither of these guys are good comparisons because both were objectively better than Ross the first two years even with limited playing time.  One (simpson) would be an epic bust if Ross has a similar career.

Try again...

(06-03-2019, 08:03 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Fair enough, but it does make you wonder if enough things will go right for his 2019 season to be one that actually counts.  Lord willing, AJ and Boyd and Mixon and at least 1 TE are going to be taking targets from Ross this season.  This comes down to Ross' draft placement being the strike against him.  A top 10 pick shouldn't be the type of player who needs everything around him to be clicking in order to perform.

the Bengals went 6 10 in 2018. got swept by the Browns
and Steelers.
sounds like to me alot of things went wrong in 2018 to this team.
I can think of 5 other things that were more impactful to the Bengals 2018 than Ross's lack of yardage and catches

(06-03-2019, 10:25 AM)cj1895 Wrote: Jerome Simpson still put up more yards his second year than Ross has his entire career.  Hell he had two games over 100 yards and only played 6 games the second season, still had more yards and a higher YPC.

Wes Welker was an undrafted free agent who again had more receptions and more yards than Ross in his second year.  He was on the practice squad year one and a 3rd or 4th option on Miami year 2. He only started 1 game in those two years, Ross started 16.

Neither of these guys are good comparisons because both were objectively better than Ross the first two years even with limited playing time.  One (simpson) would be an epic bust if Ross has a similar career.

Try again...

Lol... Simpson had 1 catch for 2 yards his first two years.  You're trying to pass off his year 3 stats as his year 2 stats.

Welker had 180 more yards, but Ross had 6 more TD's. Objectively speaking, Ross was better because TD's are much more valuable than yards.

(06-03-2019, 10:35 AM)impactplaya Wrote: the Bengals went 6 10 in 2018. got swept by the Browns
and Steelers.
sounds like to me alot of things went wrong in 2018 to this team.
I can think of 5 other things that were more impactful to the Bengals 2018 than Ross's lack of yardage and catches

I hear ya, but a season full of garbage time was a prime opportunity for Ross to fill up that stat sheet.  My gripe with Ross is that he seems very skewed towards one particular skill.  His statline looks like the red zone-only threat we were hoping Auden Tate could be.

The bottom line with Ross is that is looked very much like Andy Dalton doesn't trust him.  If/when that dynamic changes I will be more optimistic than anything I can find on a stat sheet.  Just my take.

(06-03-2019, 10:54 AM)Nately120 Wrote:  but a season full of garbage time was a prime opportunity for Ross to fill up that stat sheet. 

^^^^ this here.

A great player would shine in this situation.

So I've been a Ross detractor for the most part.  I don't like what I see.  But I also do not like the way he's been handled.  Don't know what to make of the dude, but my gut is he's a bust.  Does not appear to have the smarts or mental toughness.

But either Joe Goodberry or Jake Lisko on the "Locked on Bengals" podcast reported that Tyler Eifert said that Ross has looked "Dominant" in OTAs.

Hope that's not a typical player platitude, but a true observation.


We'll see.   He annoys the dickens out of me but I'm not willing to write him off just yet.   I'll give him another year with a new coaching staff.

Hopefully it all clicks for him.

(06-03-2019, 11:06 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: ^^^^ this here.

A great player would shine in this situation.

I'm not writing off Ross, but his 7 TDs don't blow me away because in 2010 TO caught 9 TDs and the mindset was "Who cares about 9 TDs when you are a losing team?"  This isn't about me loving TO and hating on Ross, it's just something I've noticed.

I can see Ross being the future and all, but he's got to step it up (something which I'm sure his vocal supporters agree with).

(06-03-2019, 10:54 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, but a season full of garbage time was a prime opportunity for Ross to fill up that stat sheet.  My gripe with Ross is that he seems very skewed towards one particular skill.  His statline looks like the red zone-only threat we were hoping Auden Tate could be.

The bottom line with Ross is that is looked very much like Andy Dalton doesn't trust him.  If/when that dynamic changes I will be more optimistic than anything I can find on a stat sheet.  Just my take.

Im not so sure its a trust thing with Andy.
like I said Boyd emerged as a legit number #2.
oh yeah Boyd was in yr 3 last year.
Eifert and Andy have always been in sync
when Eifert is on the field.
last year was essentiallys Ross's rookie year.
BTW Andy was comfortable enough
to lock on to Ross for scores vs the Colts and Falcons.and 
Ross pulled a groin on that TD vs the Falcons which last time I checked doesnt help a WR.

(06-03-2019, 11:32 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Im not so sure its a trust thing with Andy.
like I said Boyd emerged as a legit number #2.
oh yeah Boyd was in yr 3 last year.
Eifert and Andy have always been in sync
when Eifert is on the field.
last year was essentiallys Ross's rookie year.
BTW Andy was comfortable enough
to lock on to Ross for scores vs the Colts and Falcons.and 
Ross pulled a groin on that TD vs the Falcons which last time I checked doesnt help a WR.

Ehh, good points I'll admit.  Ross' inordinate amount of red zone catches still may indicate that the team is a bit scared of what he may do in open space, though.  I'll admit it's quite interesting, but every time Ross is involved there is a certain amount of "Uh oh....here we go!" to it.  I'll consider 2019 a success for Ross if we spend less time listing constraints and excuses for him once it's done.

(06-03-2019, 08:58 AM)cj1895 Wrote:  like I said above, please name a player that has broken out year three with less than 220 yards receiving the first two years of their career...The answer is zero.  Better yet lets round up to 350 yards over the first two seasons...

Miles Austin had only 354 receiving yards over his first THREE seasons before busting out for 1300+ yds and 11 tds in his fourth season.

Jake Reed only had 207 receiving yards his first THREE seasons, but then reeled off 4 straight 1100+ yd seasons.

Keenan McCardell had only 242 receiving yards his first two seasons, but retired with over 11 thousand.

Jimmy Smith only had 288 receiving yards his first two seasons but retired with over 12 thousand.

Amani Toomer only had 275 receiving yards his first two seasons but retired with over 9 thousand.

Reggie Rucker had only 252 receiving yards his first two seasons but retired with over 7 thousand.

Steve Watson only had 229 receiving yards his first two seasons but retired with over 6 thousand.

Brandon Stokley only had 212 receiving yards his first two seasons, but retired with over 5 thousand.

Malcom Floyd had only 249 receiving yards his first two seasons but retired with over 5000 yds

Adam Thielen only had 281 receiving yards his first two seasons, but over the last two has 204 receptions for 2649 yards

Former Bengal Chip Meyers had only 12 receptions his first two seasons, but went to the Pro Bowl in his 5th season when he finished third in the league in receptions.

Jerry Porter only had 226 receiving yards his first two seasons but went on to have two 900+ yards season for the Raiders.

(06-03-2019, 11:36 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, good points I'll admit.  Ross' inordinate amount of red zone catches still may indicate that the team is a bit scared of what he may do in open space, though.  I'll admit it's quite interesting, but every time Ross is involved there is a certain amount of "Uh oh....here we go!" to it.  I'll consider 2019 a success for Ross if we spend less time listing constraints and excuses for him once it's done.

if Ross wasnt "truatworthy" 
then why throw to him to him in the red zone when it COUNTS the most. 
I encourage anyone doubting Ross go look back at his catch vs 
Humphries in the Ravens game for the TD.
Ross was handcuffed by Lazors lack of imagination last.
a pulled groin....and a backup with no ability to anticipate 
or the put the ball in spots where WRs can do damage.

(06-03-2019, 11:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Jerry Porter only had 226 receiving yards his first two seasons but went on to have two 900+ yards season for the Raiders.

Adam Jones still mad about "Jerry" Porter coming onto the field in the 2015 playoff game. 

(06-03-2019, 11:55 AM)impactplaya Wrote: if Ross wasnt "truatworthy" 
then why throw to him to him in the red zone when it COUNTS the most. 
I encourage anyone doubting Ross go look back at his catch vs 
Humphries in the Ravens game for the TD.
Ross was handcuffed by Lazors lack of imagination last.
a pulled groin....and a backup with no ability to anticipate 
or the put the ball in spots where WRs can do damage.

If Ross catches it in the endzone the play is over.  If Dalton throws to Ross in open space there is more room for something crazy to happen before or after he gets the ball.  If Ross' endzone talent were an indicator of his level of trust with Dalton then he would be a go-to 3rd down target because he is inordinately good at getting open on and snagging the ball on those short routes.

It looks to me like getting Ross involved in the play in open space is a risky prospect based upon his first 2 years.  That's just my take.  If the guy is money in the red zone because he is uncoverable on short routes, then we should use him on every 3rd down and he should be catching more than 0-3 balls per game.  Maybe that's what happens in 2019.

(06-03-2019, 12:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If Ross catches it in the endzone the play is over.  If Dalton throws to Ross in open space there is more room for something crazy to happen before or after he gets the ball.  If Ross' endzone talent were an indicator of his level of trust with Dalton then he would be a go-to 3rd down target because he is inordinately good at getting open on and snagging the ball on those short routes.

It looks to me like getting Ross involved in the play in open space is a risky prospect based upon his first 2 years.  That's just my take.  If the guy is money in the red zone because he is uncoverable on short routes, then we should use him on every 3rd down and he should be catching more than 0-3 balls per game.  Maybe that's what happens in 2019.

well yeah your right.but however Tyler Boyd was 15 of 16 when targeted on 3rd down last year.
It took Tyler Boyd 3 years to achieve that statline.
John Ross couldnt control where he was drafted.
what waa gonna tell the Bengals...
"nah put me back in the draft I rather be drafted at 75."

(06-03-2019, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: well yeah your right.but however Tyler Boyd was 15 of 16 when targeted on 3rd down last year.
It took Tyler Boyd 3 years to achieve that statline.
John Ross couldnt control where he was drafted.
what waa gonna tell the Bengals...
"nah put me back in the draft I rather be drafted at 75."

Hmm, I can imagine how things may have gone if Ross got a call from the Bengals and said "Don't draft me...take Mahommes!"

(06-03-2019, 12:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, I can imagine how things may have gone if Ross got a call from the Bengals and said "Don't draft me...take Mahommes!"

We would probably be having a similar discussion about hoping Taylor can fix Mahommes.

(06-03-2019, 12:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: We would probably be having a similar discussion about hoping Taylor can fix Mahommes.

Man, that's brutal but I can't disagree.  This franchise is a career-killer.

(06-02-2019, 11:28 PM)cj1895 Wrote: No one wants him to fail, we all lose in that situation. What the detractors like myself would love to see is this front office cut dead weight. We far too often keep underperforming players way too long. It causes more damage than cutting your losses and moving on. Everyone points to the 7 TD's. I would take the position that a player capable of putting up more than a measly 210 yards on a season would have had more than 7 TD's.

We'll see how it goes this season but I challenge anyone to name a WR that has struggled as mightily as John Ross and rebounded. I honestly can't think of a single one. As I posted before his numbers are nearly identical to Laquon Treadwell. He disappointed greatly still in his third season so we will see if Ross can buck the trend.

Roddy White, Demaryious Thomas, Sanu, Eric Decker, Davante Adams, Nelson Agholor, Devin Funchess just to name a few.

Some guys just can't get it all down til their 3rd year, so yea I have high hopes for Ross to get it to put it all together this year.

EDIT: I See your criteria now and looks like Fred has it covered.
And last time I looked, scoring TD's helps win games. So relax, and let's hope Ross has a year 3 breakout, but remember he's playing behind AJ and Boyd, (barring injury to anyone) I would say 500+ yards and 5-7 TD's would be a nice little breakout.

(06-03-2019, 01:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Roddy White, Demaryious Thomas, Sanu, Eric Decker, Davante Adams, Nelson Agholor, Devin Funchess just to name a few.

Some guys just can't get it all down til their 3rd year, so yea I have high hopes for Ross to get it to put it all together this year.

Possibly...but let's see we've got:

Marvin wouldn't let him play
Marvin didn't use him right
Zampese didn't use him right
Lazor didn't use him right
Dalton wasn't the QB enough last year
AJ/Boyd/Mixon are too good


and....some WRs just don't put it together until year 3


So assuming Dalton is healthy next season we just have the AJ and Boyd being in front of him to worry about.