Here's a non-slideshow version of MSN's list:

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The list is based on attendance drops over the last ten years. The Reds (-20.9%) and Bengals (-21.4%) are back-to-back in the middle at 7 and 8.

Now this seems to just be a flat-out comparison between what the teams drew in 2008 and what they drew in 2018... in other words, it doesn't take into account the surge in attendance the Bengals and Reds had in that 2012-2015 range when both teams were pretty good. Still, neither team was particularly good in 2008, either, so why was attendance so much higher? The current crop of Bengals have had a lot more success than the 2008 Bengals ever did, for example, so I'm not sure it's just the losing.

Cause for concern, or nothing to worry about? Curious to hear what people think. I myself remain a Bengals season ticket holder, but I've grown frustrated with the Reds and haven't been to a game in probably 3 or 4 years. What are your experiences?

(07-23-2019, 05:08 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Here's a non-slideshow version of MSN's list:

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The list is based on attendance drops over the last ten years. The Reds (-20.9%) and Bengals (-21.4%) are back-to-back in the middle at 7 and 8.

Now this seems to just be a flat-out comparison between what the teams drew in 2008 and what they drew in 2018... in other words, it doesn't take into account the surge in attendance the Bengals and Reds had in that 2012-2015 range when both teams were pretty good. Still, neither team was particularly good in 2008, either, so why was attendance so much higher? The current crop of Bengals have had a lot more success than the 2008 Bengals ever did, for example, so I'm not sure it's just the losing.

Cause for concern, or nothing to worry about? Curious to hear what people think. I myself remain a Bengals season ticket holder, but I've grown frustrated with the Reds and haven't been to a game in probably 3 or 4 years. What are your experiences?

My experience is Cincy fans are more loyal to Reds (had a ton of success albeit long time ago) versus Bengals who have had very little success in 50+ years. On personal note, I like to watch football in person or on TV a ton more than baseball. I played baseball and grew up watching Morgan, Bench, Rose, Perez, Foster and loved them. But as I got older, the game is more social to watch and can't keep my attention. I DVR games and fast forward through them and rarely go to GAB.

I was long time season ticket holder of Bengals until 2018, I just did not feel MB wanted the team to win as much as I did based on unwillingness to go after the 1 or 2 free agents to put us over the top. I can see the Bengals leaving the city in time if fan support (they need to win) keeps going south.

1.) Neither team really spends that much which gives the fan base an attitude that the teams don't care right or wrong.
2.) Lack of postseason suçcess since 2008 the Reds and Bengals have gone 0-8 in advancing in the playoffs during that span.

(07-23-2019, 06:51 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Neither team really spends that much which gives the fan base an attitude that the teams don't care right or wrong.
2.) Lack of postseason suçcess since 2008 the Reds and Bengals have gone 0-8 in advancing in the playoffs during that span.

So why was attendance 20+ percentage points higher in 2008? Not only had neither franchise had any postseason success leading up to then, neither franchise had even really had teams in the postseason for the 13 years prior with one exception (the '05 Bengals).

You would think a team that's had 5 playoff appearances in the previous 8 years would outdraw a team that's had 1 playoff appearance in the previous 26 years (in the case of the Bengals), or that a team that's had 3 postseason teams in the last decade would outdraw a team that had 0 postseason appearance in the previous 13 years (in the case of the Reds).

Do Cincinnati fans respond more positively to teams that never make the postseason than they do to teams that make the postseason but don't win? That seems ass-backwards to me. If the Bengals go to the playoffs 5 of the next 10 years and lose every single one of those games I'd take that over 1990-2000, or 2000-2010...

(07-23-2019, 05:08 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Here's a non-slideshow version of MSN's list:

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The list is based on attendance drops over the last ten years. The Reds (-20.9%) and Bengals (-21.4%) are back-to-back in the middle at 7 and 8.

Now this seems to just be a flat-out comparison between what the teams drew in 2008 and what they drew in 2018... in other words, it doesn't take into account the surge in attendance the Bengals and Reds had in that 2012-2015 range when both teams were pretty good. Still, neither team was particularly good in 2008, either, so why was attendance so much higher? The current crop of Bengals have had a lot more success than the 2008 Bengals ever did, for example, so I'm not sure it's just the losing.

Cause for concern, or nothing to worry about? Curious to hear what people think. I myself remain a Bengals season ticket holder, but I've grown frustrated with the Reds and haven't been to a game in probably 3 or 4 years. What are your experiences?

I worry more about baseball in general because my son's generation could seemingly care less.  Some of them only like football for fantasy (nothing like getting kids in to what is essentially gambling early, eh?).

I think they are losing attendance because the home experience is better, safer, and cheaper than going to the games.  

(07-23-2019, 07:01 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I worry more about baseball in general because my son's generation could seemingly care less.  Some of them only like football for fantasy (nothing like getting kids in to what is essentially gambling early, eh?).

I think they are losing attendance because the home experience is better, safer, and cheaper than going to the games.  

^^^^ Well said

I’d also look at disposable income in that area over that time frame. A lot of people/families just can’t afford to go to games anymore with the cost of housing and healthcare going up and up while wages stay flat. It costs a family of 4 like $500 to go to one game.

(07-23-2019, 08:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’d also look at disposable income in that area over that time frame. A lot of people/families just can’t afford to go to games anymore with the cost of housing and healthcare going up and up while wages stay flat. It costs a family of 4 like $500 to go to one game.

That is the high side ($500) if the family plans well. The stadium is not close to selling out, so can get tickets from scalpers on game day for $50 each so $200 tickets. You can park about mile from stadium for $20. You can eat lunch prior to game at a fast food restaurant for $25.

So, then buy kids a drink and snack and you are looking at $10 to $12 each so $48

Yes, it is expensive, but not $500 for 4 people. These are not premium seats, but can find good deals. I got lower level for $40 each (4 of us) last year 20 minutes prior to kick off. The games have 15 to 20,000 unsold seats a game available right now

There wont be professional sports in Cincinnati after 2025

You cant try and fail as much as these clown organizations and keep it going

They have shown obvious refusal to try and maintain competitive franchises - Both teams are laughingstocks with clueless owners

The fans are leaving

The stadiums are terrible. The teams are miserable. You all are going to be have to deal w reality.

At the stadium, the cheerleaders are 1 mile away, at home I can get my "hot" wife to cheer me up...up and personal and without the use of pom poms. Oh yes! An then there's the game too.

(07-23-2019, 07:01 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think they are losing attendance because the home experience is better, safer, and cheaper than going to the games.  

Why isn't it happening everywhere, then?

(07-23-2019, 08:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’d also look at disposable income in that area over that time frame. A lot of people/families just can’t afford to go to games anymore with the cost of housing and healthcare going up and up while wages stay flat. It costs a family of 4 like $500 to go to one game.

Bengals marked down their ticket prices since 2008. You can get tickets for the whole season for $200 straight from the organization and without ever paying a scalper.

I'd imagine Reds tickets can be found pretty cheap too as they've switched to dynamic pricing, but I haven't paid too much attention.

(07-23-2019, 08:32 PM)TopSix Wrote: There wont be professional sports in Cincinnati after 2025

You cant try and fail as much as these clown organizations and keep it going

They have shown obvious refusal to try and maintain competitive franchises - Both teams are laughingstocks with clueless owners

The fans are leaving

The stadiums are terrible.  The teams are miserable.  You all are going to be have to deal w reality.

...and yet the city just added a major league team with FC Cincinnati making the transition to MLS. I'm sure some will shrug that off, but that's a pretty big deal IMO. They outdraw the Reds all the time.

An article I found said that FC Cincinnati was ranked 3rd in all of MLS in attendance (article is from May, though). That's despite a) being really, really bad and b) playing in a college stadium that doesn't have the capacity many other team's venues have. Despite a miserable team and non-ideal stadium situation, fans aren't leaving, they're flocking to the team.

Those "noncompetitive" Bengals have 5 postseason appearances in the past 8 years. That's more success than they had in 2008 when attendance was higher, so I'm not convinced past performance has anything to do with.

The Reds will never leave Cincinnati. MLB will never let it happen, nor will the city. That's purely for historical reasons, of course, but they're not going anywhere. 

(07-23-2019, 09:19 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: At the stadium, the cheerleaders are 1 mile away, at home I can get my "hot" wife to cheer me up...up and personal and without the use of pom poms. Oh yes! An then there's the game too.

I say that we all watch the games at your place! Haha

(07-23-2019, 08:32 PM)TopSix Wrote: There wont be professional sports in Cincinnati after 2025

You cant try and fail as much as these clown organizations and keep it going

They have shown obvious refusal to try and maintain competitive franchises - Both teams are laughingstocks with clueless owners

The fans are leaving

The stadiums are terrible. The teams are miserable. You all are going to be have to deal w reality.

So your very first post here is to shit on our city and our teams?

Why do I get the feeling you live in Cleveland or Pittsburgh...

(07-23-2019, 07:00 PM)NKURyan Wrote: So why was attendance 20+ percentage points higher in 2008? Not only had neither franchise had any postseason success leading up to then, neither franchise had even really had teams in the postseason for the 13 years prior with one exception (the '05 Bengals).

You would think a team that's had 5 playoff appearances in the previous 8 years would outdraw a team that's had 1 playoff appearance in the previous 26 years (in the case of the Bengals), or that a team that's had 3 postseason teams in the last decade would outdraw a team that had 0 postseason appearance in the previous 13 years (in the case of the Reds).

Do Cincinnati fans respond more positively to teams that never make the postseason than they do to teams that make the postseason but don't win? That seems ass-backwards to me. If the Bengals go to the playoffs 5 of the next 10 years and lose every single one of those games I'd take that over 1990-2000, or 2000-2010...

It does to me to. With that being said how many times did we here we made the playoffs 5 straight times vs we went 0-5. We took a lot of criticism during that time period from the national media that takes a toll on a fanbase. Also those losses hurt a lot more than having a bad season. I still have nightmares from our last playoff game.

(07-23-2019, 05:08 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Here's a non-slideshow version of MSN's list:

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The list is based on attendance drops over the last ten years. The Reds (-20.9%) and Bengals (-21.4%) are back-to-back in the middle at 7 and 8.

Now this seems to just be a flat-out comparison between what the teams drew in 2008 and what they drew in 2018... in other words, it doesn't take into account the surge in attendance the Bengals and Reds had in that 2012-2015 range when both teams were pretty good. Still, neither team was particularly good in 2008, either, so why was attendance so much higher? The current crop of Bengals have had a lot more success than the 2008 Bengals ever did, for example, so I'm not sure it's just the losing.

Cause for concern, or nothing to worry about? Curious to hear what people think. I myself remain a Bengals season ticket holder, but I've grown frustrated with the Reds and haven't been to a game in probably 3 or 4 years. What are your experiences?

Might be running out of butts in seats but neither team will ever run out of fans.

(07-24-2019, 12:34 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It does to me to. With that being said how many times did we here we made the playoffs 5 straight times vs we went 0-5. We took a lot of criticism during that time period from the national media that takes a toll on a fanbase. Also those losses hurt a lot more than having a bad season. I still have nightmares from our last playoff game.

They only hurt because of how good they were in the first place. 'Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.

Kinda feels like the fanbase is being pretty emo about the whole thing, lol.

(07-24-2019, 01:49 PM)McC Wrote: Might be running out of butts in seats but neither team will ever run out of fans.

I believe this to be true as well. Both teams are still huge topics of conversation across the tri-state, and my HS classroom is still filled with students who wear Bengals and Reds gear. Ratings are still good for both. People still care about both, I think.

(07-23-2019, 09:21 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Why isn't it happening everywhere, then?

It is.