(07-25-2019, 08:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: FootballGuys has its list of players that could blow away their average draft position in fantasy this year, and ours in John Ross:


I love how it calls out Marvin right off the bat because that was always Marvin's MO: never giving players (especially rookies) the opportunity to do what they do best and unlock their full potential.  

He only played in thirteen games last year with only 21 catches but 7 touchdowns, which is a pretty damn good ratio.  He obviously won't keep up with that pace, but he has a knack for making big plays and the potential is there.

Let's hope Taylor and the rest of the new coaches use him to his potential and he blows up this year!  

Imagine having a consistent threat to go deep opposite of AJ or even a guy that can just catch a pass anywhere and go the distance.

If you need a reminder of how he can move, here he is with a little shake and bake! here he is with a little shake-and-bake!

While Ross definitely should shoulder some of the blame for his lack of production up to this point, I think a big issue was that the team wanted to use him in a very particular way.

He was often sent on more deep routes and the occasional jet sweep. His average depth of target was 14.6, which was the deepest on the team.
I really don't recall him being utilized a lot in the short passing game, which was a forte of his at Washington. I think a good indicator too of this being his strength is how productive he was in the red zone last year. Basically, he was forced into short yardage routes because the field was squished and he was able to produce very well.

I really hope we see Ross utilized (a lot) more in short routes like screens, slants, etc.

If he did explode how much cap room would that create?

(07-25-2019, 10:11 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: If he did explode how much cap room would that create?

Looks like as of right now, $0 additional cap space, as the remaining two years of his deal would be dead cap.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/john-ross-21750/

(07-25-2019, 09:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.  Marvin played rookies and young players as much as the average NFL coach.  We had tons of rookies start under Marvin.
And nothing indicates that Marvin did not like Ross.  All of the evidence points to Ross not being good enough to get on the field his rookies season.

^^^ This

It's funny how the same excuses keep getting recycled when it comes to John Ross.

(07-25-2019, 11:40 AM)BengalChris Wrote: ^^^ This

It's funny how the same excuses keep getting recycled when it comes to John Ross.

john ross himself came out and told everyone why he didn't get to play much that year... It was cause of him. not marvin.

(07-25-2019, 10:11 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: If he did explode how much cap room would that create?

1st round pick contracts are fully guaranteed.

(07-25-2019, 12:42 AM)jason Wrote: But that's all he's done is score 7 TDS. That's pretty good I suppose, but Mike Williams scored 10 TDS on 60 something targets as a number 3 WR for the Chargers last year. Ross has mental lapses, and brick hands. He's inefficient as all get out. The guy is a top 10 pick. Those guys come in and contribute day one. They aren't supposed to be 3 year projects. I don't hate the guy (hated the pick), but he's been a severe disappointment. You can't blame Marvin either. John Ross deals with position coaches, and coordinators more than he did Marvin.

I think the mental lapses lead to the drops, he had good hands in college with a terrible QB.

That is the thing, lots of guys like yourself hated the pick from the get go and I think that sticks with you.

He sure is going to have to blow up major to prove you guys wrong and I think he will.

Think Ross have been treated unfairly at times by people when he was injured and it ate on him.

(07-25-2019, 01:32 AM)treee Wrote: Hmm, I think I'll just remember that sick-nasty preseason reception and ensuing juke-fest Hope ZT and crew can put him in the right position to make a bigger (and more consistent) impact.

Taylor and company will help him guarantee it and we should see more of those sick plays out of him.

Hopefully tons of them...

(07-25-2019, 07:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, TO scored 10 tds in 2010 and we were fine letting him go.  On a more relayed note, I'm not saying we have to move on from Ross I'm just saying these stats put things in perspective IF ZT can't instantly fix the guy.  

As Fred has pointed out before, we have other offensive players who weren't driven into the 860th rank by Marvin.

TO was old and a cancer, nice comparison.

Ross needs to be better. More consistent with his route running. More reliable. A lot of good wide receivers took a few years to get going though. Look at Chad Johnson. or TJ Houshmanzadeh. Ross has shown glimpses of greatness. That TD in the preseason last year being a big glimpse. His 7 TDs last year were obviously great. There are reasons to feel encouraged. Taylor's offense is the perfect fit for him too. There's a lot of reason for optimism. If he has a breakout year you'd think this would be the year. Just hoping the line gives Dalton enough time. We've got plenty of weapons.

.....or not.

It's Dalton's fault.

(07-25-2019, 11:48 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: TO was old and a cancer, nice comparison.

We need to decide if scoring TDs during a worthless season is a positive thing or not.  At any rate, ZT could possibly coach Ross up, but as I see it Dalton doesn't trust the guy and there are some compelling reasons why he shouldn't.  But yes, he scored 7 TDs last season, so maybe he just becomes the red zone threat we thought Auden Tate would be.

Regardless, even if he doesn't get better in 2019 the reasons to put off judging him for another year or two will remain.  And if Ross does explode in 2019 you can hardly get on people's cases for being surprised by it.

(07-24-2019, 07:44 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Stuff like this happens when your not running the right routs or give up on play. He fixes that, he fixes those stats.

well you got to get a hand on it before you can drop it.

(07-24-2019, 07:44 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Stuff like this happens when your not running the right routs or give up on play. He fixes that, he fixes those stats.

I suppose, but this could be akin to optimistic Jaguars fans talking about how Bort Bortles is going to fix his throwing mechanics and finally reach is #3 overall pick potential and so on.  I really do hope Ross does well, but oof talking about a top 10 pick needing to make a slew of fundamental changes going into his 3rd year. 

(07-25-2019, 12:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I suppose, but this could be akin to optimistic Jaguars fans talking about how Bort Bortles is going to fix his throwing mechanics and finally reach is #3 overall pick potential and so on.  I really do hope Ross does well, but oof talking about a top 10 pick needing to make a slew of fundamental changes going into his 3rd year. 

we do generally see WRs really take off year 3

sanu
Jones
Boyd
(TJ way before)

where some of our latest examples.

(07-25-2019, 10:10 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While Ross definitely should shoulder some of the blame for his lack of production up to this point, I think a big issue was that the team wanted to use him in a very particular way.

He was often sent on more deep routes and the occasional jet sweep. His average depth of target was 14.6, which was the deepest on the team.
I really don't recall him being utilized a lot in the short passing game, which was a forte of his at Washington. I think a good indicator too of this being his strength is how productive he was in the red zone last year. Basically, he was forced into short yardage routes because the field was squished and he was able to produce very well.

I really hope we see Ross utilized (a lot) more in short routes like screens, slants, etc.

You are so right.  He does have outstanding short area quickness, which, as you said, his red zone success proves.

(07-25-2019, 12:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we do generally see WRs really take off year 3

sanu
Jones
Boyd
(TJ way before)

where some of our latest examples.

Hey, I'm not saying it can't happen but...860th out of 861 and all.

It's tempting to write Ross off...but WR is a position where once it clicks it clicks. The question is will it ever click for him.

Year 3 is still early, but it's getting to the point where this is probably a make or break year for him.

(07-25-2019, 12:23 PM)McC Wrote: You are so right.  He does have outstanding short area quickness, which, as you said, his red zone success proves.

I think his main issues aren't physical, but mental. Whether that's understanding the offense or a willingness to fight for the ball...there's something he lacks at this point.

(07-25-2019, 12:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We need to decide if scoring TDs during a worthless season is a positive thing or not.  At any rate, ZT could possibly coach Ross up, but as I see it Dalton doesn't trust the guy and there are some compelling reasons why he shouldn't.  But yes, he scored 7 TDs last season, so maybe he just becomes the red zone threat we thought Auden Tate would be.

Regardless, even if he doesn't get better in 2019 the reasons to put off judging him for another year or two will remain.  And if Ross does explode in 2019 you can hardly get on people's cases for being surprised by it.

Of course it is a positive regardless, just not as big of a positive in a winning season.

But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post.

(07-25-2019, 12:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: well you got to get a hand on it before you can drop it.

True, there were a few plays last year where Dalton didn't give Ross a chance and underthrew him.

Dalton still needs to get used to his speed and Ross needs to start giving Dalton a reason to trust him, like running the right routes and catching the damn ball when it comes his way. No excuses for this.

(07-25-2019, 12:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we do generally see WRs really take off year 3

sanu
Jones
Boyd
(TJ way before)

where some of our latest examples.

All true.

(07-25-2019, 12:23 PM)McC Wrote: You are so right.  He does have outstanding short area quickness, which, as you said, his red zone success proves.

Right

You don't catch 7 TD's, mostly in the red zone because you're a bum ! He may well flourish under ZT ? Or he may get buried on the depth chart by game 3 ?

But until proven otherwise I still maintain ML and Co. did him few favors. Am I saying it's all their fault ? NO