(07-31-2019, 01:23 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: People aren't upset about Puig. They're upset about Trammell.

I thought fans wanted to "win now"?

2018 is the first season Trammell has played above A ball and he is sucking.  He may never even make the big leagues.

(07-31-2019, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I thought fans wanted to "win now"?

When it ain't happening, it's natural to look towards the future.

(07-31-2019, 01:48 PM)NKURyan Wrote: When it ain't happening, it's natural to look towards the future.

But I thought that if it wasn't happening the team should make moves to try and help?

(07-31-2019, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I thought fans wanted to "win now"?

2018 is the first season Trammell has played above A ball and he is sucking.  He may never even make the big leagues.

I think fans are very interested in winning now.

I don't think they are very interested in "Maybe winning next year, but if you don't, you're done."

Trading our top prospect for a 1 and a half year rental is not really a good strategy.

Especially since Bauer will almost certainly not sign with us after 2020. And if he does, it'll only be a 1 year contract.

(07-31-2019, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I thought fans wanted to "win now"?

I want to WIN NOW.   Reds have lost enough last 4 or 5 years.  I'm not looking 4 or 5 years down the road.  Lets win some games now.  

We have Senzel, Ervin, Van Meter,  Winker, Dietrich still in OF

Wait until the fans get a load of Bauer.  If all they ever see is Reds, they are in for a surprise.  One of best pitchers in the game.  Reds now have 3 All-Stars in Castillo, Gray, Bauer and Wood back has been an All-Star.  Disco is a great young pitcher.  Also Roark if he doesn't get traded today.  Koufax & Drysdale.  Gibson & Carlton.  Seaver & Koosman.  Maddux & Glavine. .....Fans that think the game is all hitters, don't know baseball.....and the Reds have good outfielders still.   They now have an All-Star Pitching Rotation.   The Reds are going to be very hard to beat rest of year.  If they catch up and make play-offs, they have World Series pitching. 

and how about the gloves and bats of Suarez, Iglesias, Gennett, Votto around the horn.

Garrett, Lorenzen, Iglesias can be Nasty Boy 1990 when on their games.

(07-31-2019, 01:49 PM)fredtoast: Wrote: But I thought that if it wasn't happening the team should make moves to try and help?

You need to be realistic about where you are. Are the Reds going to get into the playoffs or pass any of the trio in front of them in the division this year? No. Have they put themselves into a position where it's any more likely to happen next year? I'd also say no, not really. So where does that leave them in 2021 and beyond when these pitchers take a walk to greener pastures?

It's like with Bengals free agency. Do I think rushing out and overpaying CJ Mosely would've brought the Bengals any closer to a championship this year? No, so they were better off not doing it and spending that money instead on re-signing Tyler Boyd (already happened) and AJ Green (will happen).

(07-31-2019, 02:15 PM)NKURyan Wrote:  So where does that leave them in 2021 and beyond when these pitchers take a walk to greener pastures?

This is MY point exactly.    


You plan on them making the playoffs with Trammell pitching?

We have the pitching to win NOW.  In two years we won't.

(07-31-2019, 02:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Trading our top prospect for a 1 and a half year rental is not really a good strategy.

Makes more sense than building the team around guy who is hitting like Billy Hamilton in AA ball.

The Reds are not as bad as you claim, and if they were then Trammell is not going to make them a winner any time soon.

Sounds like Roark just became an Oakland A

I look at Bauer as a solid number 3 pitcher. He had a great 2018 and was a solid decent in 2017. He has a 2 WAR in 2019. Gray has a 2.9 and Disco has a 1.7, just for comparison. Bauer is a career ERA around 4 but facing a DH vs. a pitcher can move that ERA. I feel like the Reds gave up quite a bit for him. Any 2 of the 3 sounds more to value. The Reds are basically trading 12 years of control on 2 unknowns for 1 year of a number 3 starter. I think he made around 13 mil but it’s his last arbitration year. Could they have signed a free agent and just kept the 2 prospects? It could turn out an ok deal but there’s a chance that there could be a whole lot of egg on their faces too. They need to add bats and bullpen in the offseason or the deal makes little sense. I’m scratching my heads at what the Padres were trying to accomplish.

(07-31-2019, 02:56 PM)fredtoast: Wrote: We have the pitching to win NOW.  In two years we won't.

Right, so then the Reds are going all in to win this year then, right? Cool. Who else did they bring in today to help? Noone? Awesome. Sold a couple of players for some cash, though, so YAY.

But hey, we've got a hell of a rotation for 2020. I'm sure the Reds will go all-in next year, World Series championship or bust, right? Especially since they've got this rotation for basically one year, right? Please. They'll bring in an also-ran or two, call it an offseason, and hope that it gets them to third in the division.

Then in 2021 it's right back to square one when these guys take a walk (assuming the Reds didn't trade them away already in 2020). But hey, we'll get 'em next year, or the year after! Honest!

(07-31-2019, 08:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Right, so then the Reds are going all in to win this year then, right? Cool. Who else did they bring in today to help? Noone? Awesome. Sold a couple of players for some cash, though, so YAY.

But hey, we've got a hell of a rotation for 2020. I'm sure the Reds will go all-in next year, World Series championship or bust, right? Especially since they've got this rotation for basically one year, right? Please. They'll bring in an also-ran or two, call it an offseason, and hope that it gets them to third in the division.

Then in 2021 it's right back to square one when these guys take a walk (assuming the Reds didn't trade them away already in 2020). But hey, we'll get 'em next year, or the year after! Honest!

They can make Bauer a qualifying offer next year and if he declines they get round 1 compensatory pick I believe.  If Wood can finish the year healthy and sign a small extension, the Reds could come out of this ahead.  Until Votto's contract ends in 2023, there is only so much they can do.  

(07-31-2019, 08:28 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: They can make Bauer a qualifying offer next year and if he declines they get round 1 compensatory pick I believe.  

...and that's great and all, but that won't have an impact for the Reds for what, another 5-6 years in all likelihood? 

I think I read it would be a round 2 pick, too

Looks like we traded for a clubhouse cancer. Francona said today he was pleased with the trade because he was worried about how Bauer’s behavior would affect the team.

I wonder why the Reds did not make the trade for marcus stroman, who is about same age, same amount of control, better ERA.

(07-31-2019, 09:57 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Looks like we traded for a clubhouse cancer. Francona said today he was pleased with the trade because he was worried about how Bauer’s behavior would affect the team.

The Reds have the pitcher's whisperer in Johnson.  It will be interesting to see what Johnson does with Bauer and if he can improve his performance.  

Some of you are forgetting the Reds still have some good, young arms in the bullpen now with Garrett, Lorenzen and even Iglesias, but I think we may be in for a pleasant surprise a little later if they bring up Joel Kuhnel from Louisville and he can keep pace (He's been brilliant thus far at almost every stop along the way) it'll open the door for a possible trade with Iglesias in the off season ESPECIALLY if Iglesias finishes strong this year. Personally I'm hoping to see Kuhnel and his blazing FB become our new closer. I think he's got the goods. The only off season he had was in Dayton back in 17 with a 4.36 era, but has done nothing but get better ever since. He was drafted as an 11th rounder in 16 from UT @ Arlington..

(07-31-2019, 08:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Right, so then the Reds are going all in to win this year then, right? Cool. Who else did they bring in today to help? Noone? Awesome. Sold a couple of players for some cash, though, so YAY.

But hey, we've got a hell of a rotation for 2020. I'm sure the Reds will go all-in next year, World Series championship or bust, right? Especially since they've got this rotation for basically one year, right? Please. They'll bring in an also-ran or two, call it an offseason, and hope that it gets them to third in the division.

Then in 2021 it's right back to square one when these guys take a walk (assuming the Reds didn't trade them away already in 2020). But hey, we'll get 'em next year, or the year after! Honest!

So you think standing pat and watching Puig walk after this season was going to make this team better? In what way?

(08-01-2019, 12:03 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So you think standing pat and watching Puig walk after this season was going to make this team better? In what way?

The answer is quite obvious.. Magic of course..  Is there a (real live) magician in the house? 

(08-01-2019, 12:03 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So you think standing pat and watching Puig walk after this season was going to make this team better? In what way?

No, trading him was the right idea. They should've gone after prospects for when they're actually good again 3-5 years down the line instead of pretending that they're going to be competitive next year.

IMO they've painted themselves into a corner, because if they're going to be serious about selling us on how good the rotation is going to be next year (for a one year window) then they need to put their money where their mouth is and go out there this offseason looking to make the type of moves that will put them on a championship level. They're not going to do that. If we're lucky, they might do just enough to try to convince us all that they've got a shot at grabbing a wildcard spot if things fall the right way (which they're already doing as evidenced by the "oh man if Wood/Bauer/Gray return to the form they were in a couple of years ago, watch out!" talk you're already hearing).

Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if they don't do anything this offseason. They may already be content in convincing themselves they've done enough for next year.