No pocket to have awareness of. Might as well run the wildcat.

(10-01-2019, 08:12 PM)Destro Wrote: No pocket to have awareness of. Might as well run the wildcat.

Elite QBs like Gardner Minshew appear to show pocket awareness with a subpar line ?  

(10-01-2019, 06:43 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Help me finalize my research. How many starting defenses has Findley played against in the NFL? How many times has he been pressured and or sacked 23 times on one game?

Answer those questions and I will tell you my answer.

By your rationale, no one after the very first QBs to ever play an NFL game should have ever been able to see the field since anyone after them had never seen a starting defense. Your entire premise is fallacy.

Ask the Jags if they give a flying F how many "NFL starting defenses" Minshew had seen.

Hell, how many NFL starting defenses had Dalton seen before his first game against the Browns in 2011? By your "logic" the Bengals should have signed a journeyman QB who had started games before. By your logic, the Bengals should have stuck with Kitna and never played Carson.


I swear, man, some of you guys are thick in the head. I would never ask anyone on here to be smart, but the sentiment quoted above is just stupid.

PS: #teamdolegala

(10-01-2019, 08:26 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Elite QBs like Gardner Minshew appear to show pocket awareness with a subpar line ?  

Subpar? Bengals are the bottom feeders

I'll say this to the Finley people. You know how Willis looked amazing during preseason...then does nothing in games?

Preseason basically doesn't matter for 2nd and 3rd stringers. Finley would be overmatched.

(10-01-2019, 08:26 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Elite QBs like Gardner Minshew appear to show pocket awareness with a subpar line ?  

How subpar can they be when the Jags have the 6th ranked rushing offense and are averaging 5.7 YPC (2nd)?

Meanwhile the Bengals are at 32nd and 2.8 YPC (32nd).


That said, I would trade Dalton and start Finley, not because I think Finley is better, but because I think it's time to do a full rebuild and I would try to trade Dalton to the Bears to help build an OL that isn't the worst in the league around whatever future QB I take.

(10-01-2019, 12:51 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: I'm ready to trade Andy Dalton due to his lack of pocket awareness and being scared. He is not a confident leader. He will drop back and stand in one spot every time. With a bad line you gotta move step up do something. I think he's so scared he freezes. When the pocket collapses and his first look isnt there he has 3 options. #1 He instantly tucks the ball and looks down at the ground. #2 He takes his eyes off downfield huckers down and tip toes away from the pressure bracing for the hit. #3 He escapes the pocket after doing options #1 and #2 only to be able to throw it away.. now if you watch this awful line with Ryan Finley in there it doesn't look near as bad as what Andy makes it to be. Our o line sucks, but I put blame on Andy too for not giving them any help. The pocket has to be absolutely perfect so Andy can stand in one spot and throw? If you look at all the good qb's they all move in the pocket. Ryan Finley knows how to move in the pocket that's all that matter at this point. We all know it's time to move on from Andy either way and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point for a new o line. I think it would be a good move to trade Dalton and to see what we have in Finley so we can decide whether or not we need to draft a qb. We're 0-4. Playoffs are highly unlikely at this point especially with a below average qb behind a putrid offensive line. Trading Andy Dalton could be our best option at this point. Start Finley and see what we got.



FINLEY'S PRESEASON HIGHLIGHTS
https://youtu.be/UjVAtzaI0b8
https://youtu.be/QbAzIU2mlC0

Pittsburgh would have eaten Finley and spit him out last night. It would have been uglier


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(10-01-2019, 06:42 PM)Cicero Wrote: Anyone you put behind this offensive line will get killed. That’s basic football knowledge.

Andy played pro bowl level football with a competent line.

This. Funny how people gave Andy a break the last three years because the O-line was terrible, but now with a line that's even worse, it's all of a sudden Andy's fault.

STILL waiting to hear about these "lot of teams" that would deal for / like to have Dalton ? Speak up or cease with that ridiculous narrative.

If we are gonna start with a new HC, now is the time to start with a new QB.

Andy is Marvin's guy. :giggle:

We have a couple that are Marvin's guys that are serviceable but are aging.

We need more personnel changes and we need them now. :andy:

Trade Andy or other players for newer players. At this point you dont lose much by taking a calculated risk.

(10-01-2019, 01:24 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Now I’m not saying Andy Dalton is the long term solution in Cincinnati at quarterback — because he probably isn’t — but before putting Ryan Finley in a game this fact must be taken into account: Ryan Finley has never played a single snap against a first team NFL defense.

And we won’t know what he is until he does. That’s the point...

Ok, I'm all in favor of it being time to start moving on from Andy as the Bengals franchise QB, however I voted no to poll question as posed. Here's why.

I'm all for taking a good hard look at Ryan Finley, and making a decision on weather he's worth investing all of the developmental effort into making him "our guy". However, I don't think that the "good hard look' should come via "just getting thrown out there to the wolves".

I say that they should start giving him some time in games, like a relief pitcher. For example, if the Bengals find themselves down by two possessions in the 2nd half of a game? Give the kid a shot, get him some live time. He demonstrated some abilities in preseason that look completely worth taking a closer look at. Likely the best skill trait that Finley flashed, is pocket awareness. The ability to move in the pocket, keep focused down field, and extend a play. What he needs the extended developmental time on, is getting used to the speed of NFL defenses. On multiple occasions this Summer, I saw Finley make throws to players that were open, and would most likely have been completed passes in the college game. However with NFL speed, those windows close before the ball can get there. So, in addition to just plain getting used to NFL speed, he also needs work on timing and spot throws, the bread and butter plays of modern NFL offenses.

Now, should some team offer the perfect trade package for Andy, we need Ryan to have at least a little confidence, and be ready to step in. When I say "should some team offer the perfect trade package", I don't feel like that will happen by "shopping" Andy publicly. I'm thinking that shortly before the Oct 29th trade deadline, at least one team will decide that they are a contender, and be willing to pony up for Andy to either take over as starter or be there to come off the bench if needed. What are there, like 9 teams already without their starting QB, already this season? Look at the Saints, for example. Brees is out, and they are struggling mightily to score points with Teddy B. sailing balls over receivers' heads. I see them as a "perfect storm" type of prospective trade candidate.

(10-01-2019, 08:26 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Elite QBs like Gardner Minshew appear to show pocket awareness with a subpar line ?  

I wish we were just subpar. 

You people are fools to think anyone would come in with this oline and actually produce. There is a whole lot of stupid in this thread. No offense. Some just need to take a breather and cool down. Our whole offense is an atrocious mess.  Replacing dalton will not do a thing at this point. 

This quote is especially dumb

"Dalton needs to step up in the pocket"
 Lol what f'ing pocket???!! 

There was litterally nowhere for him to run. 

To quote one of the great bengals philosophers 

"Child please"

(10-01-2019, 09:05 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: This. Funny how people gave Andy a break the last three years because the O-line was terrible, but now with a line that's even worse, it's all of a sudden Andy's fault.

It's the same people

DeShawn Watson has been sacked at a much higher rate (both this year and his career) and has a passer rating of 99.9. Is he included in the "nobody" that could preform well behind this line?

Hell Mariota is getting sacked once every 7 passing attempts and has a passer rating of 106.2. Does he count?

Folks need to just stop with the "nobody can", face reality, and "Andy can't"

(10-01-2019, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: DeShawn Watson has been sacked at a much higher rate (both this year and his career) and has  a passer rating of 99.9. Is he included in the "nobody" that could preform well behind this line?

Hell Mariota is getting sacked once every 7 passing attempts and has a passer rating of 106.2. Does he count?

Folks need to just stop with the "nobody can", face reality, and "Andy can't"

Yes they are included. Andy has a quicker release. His sacks are from the pocket instantly collapsing.  Bring in Mariota and his sack rate would be even higher. Also, it's not just the line. Recievers not running the right routes, dropping passes etc. Tje whole offense is terrible. If you think just plugging in marrioto and we start to magically win games I got a bridge yada yada yada.

(10-01-2019, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: DeShawn Watson has been sacked at a much higher rate (both this year and his career) and has a passer rating of 99.9. Is he included in the "nobody" that could preform well behind this line?

Hell Mariota is getting sacked once every 7 passing attempts and has a passer rating of 106.2. Does he count?

Folks need to just stop with the "nobody can", face reality, and "Andy can't"

Watson holds the ball too long. Mariota's numbers are whatever... He sucks.

I thought they should've sat Dalton about midway into the 3rd. He was done and it was apparent he didn't have the steam to mount a comeback. im not saying take his starting job away from him on MNF, but the dude was getting killed. Finley is the younger more mobile backup and also a change of pace. Dalton couldve used some time to sit back and watch.

(10-01-2019, 12:51 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: I'm ready to trade Andy Dalton due to his lack of pocket awareness and being scared. He is not a confident leader. He will drop back and stand in one spot every time. With a bad line you gotta move step up do something. I think he's so scared he freezes. When the pocket collapses and his first look isnt there he has 3 options. #1 He instantly tucks the ball and looks down at the ground. #2 He takes his eyes off downfield huckers down and tip toes away from the pressure bracing for the hit. #3 He escapes the pocket after doing options #1 and #2 only to be able to throw it away.. now if you watch this awful line with Ryan Finley in there it doesn't look near as bad as what Andy makes it to be. Our o line sucks, but I put blame on Andy too for not giving them any help. The pocket has to be absolutely perfect so Andy can stand in one spot and throw? If you look at all the good qb's they all move in the pocket. Ryan Finley knows how to move in the pocket that's all that matter at this point. We all know it's time to move on from Andy either way and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point for a new o line. I think it would be a good move to trade Dalton and to see what we have in Finley so we can decide whether or not we need to draft a qb. We're 0-4. Playoffs are highly unlikely at this point especially with a below average qb behind a putrid offensive line. Trading Andy Dalton could be our best option at this point. Start Finley and see what we got.



FINLEY'S PRESEASON HIGHLIGHTS
https://youtu.be/UjVAtzaI0b8
https://youtu.be/QbAzIU2mlC0

If you aren't going to get OL help in that trade, what's the point? Blitzers running free left and right, and lame and predictable play calling isn't going to be fixed by throwing a rookie QB to the wolves.

But, I am starting to think the team should look at trading existing players for as many 1st and 2nd round picks as they can. I'd look at trade basically anyone currently on the roster if I netted a 1st or 2nd round pick for them.

This team needs 3 new starting offensive linemen and 2 new starting LBers. Can't really get that from dumpster free agency shopping and only 1 pick per round in the early rounds.

But, more basic, this coaching staff hasn't shown us one substantial thing. It's been all talk-talk-talk. Other coaches were bad, we're great.

You know what I feel like? I feel like we just drafted Akili Smith all over again, except now he's the HC.

 

(10-01-2019, 10:22 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Yes they are included. Andy has a quicker release. His sacks are from the pocket instantly collapsing.  Bring in Mariota and his sack rate would be even higher. Also, it's not just the line. Recievers not running the right routes, dropping passes etc. Tje whole offense is terrible. If you think just plugging in marrioto and we start to magically win games I got a bridge yada yada yada.

(10-01-2019, 10:31 PM)jason Wrote: Watson holds the ball too long. Mariota's numbers are whatever... He sucks.

Amazing how Andy's sacks are different. Houston drafted olinemen in the first 2 rounds of last year's draft and gave up a lot for an average LT. Perhaps you guys could let them know the problem is Watson. Last year Wilson was sacked at a higher rate than Andy is currently being sacked this year yet he posted a 110 passer rating. Let me guess...."That's different"

You guys are just making stuff up in the face of facts. To say nobody could succeed behind this oline is just pure BS and an insult to the better QBs in the NFL