I'm assuming that everyone is on board with us being a top 3 pick and I'm also sure people are aware of what happened between the Bengals & Saints in the draft. When the Saints offered a huge deal for the #3 pick but the Bengals turned it down.
So my question is this if the Bengals are offered a huge deal for that Pick. Do you think the Bengals would accept it? Also would you want the Bengals to accept the Deal?

(10-06-2019, 09:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I'm assuming that everyone is on board with us being a top 3 pick and I'm also sure people are aware of what happened between the Bengals & Saints in the draft. When the Saints offered a huge deal for the #3 pick but the Bengals turned it down.
So my question is this if the Bengals are offered a huge deal for that Pick. Do you think the Bengals would accept it? Also would you want the Bengals to accept the Deal?

It depends on the return but yes, I would do the deal.  But I also think they need a QB next year.  I do not think Finley is the QB of future but I hope he can play some games so at least fans can know what to expect...

So the Falcons offered the Bengals a trade for the pick that turned into AJ Green. They offered the same trade to the Browns.

Essentially the Browns traded Julio Jones for a bunch of draft picks that turned into sucky players.

Hell, I was convinced we were going to trade down and the Bears were going to take Palmer in 2003. Trading down from a high pick for a haul seems like too much work for Mike Brown.

(10-06-2019, 10:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hell, I was convinced we were going to trade down and the Bears were going to take Palmer in 2003.  Trading down from a high pick for a haul seems like too much work for Mike Brown.

But, imagine IF we traded AJ Green to the Falcons for several picks. That would have worked out bad.

Sometimes you're better off taking impact players. It all depends on the circumstances.

(10-06-2019, 10:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hell, I was convinced we were going to trade down and the Bears were going to take Palmer in 2003.  Trading down from a high pick for a haul seems like too much work for Mike Brown.

That is a good point.  Not sure Tobin et al could draft good players with those extra picks.  

(10-06-2019, 10:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: That is a good point.  Not sure Tobin et al could draft good players with those extra picks.  

Right. Which is the elephant in the room and why we've not won a playoff game for 28+ years.

We can't draft.

(10-06-2019, 09:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I'm assuming that everyone is on board with us being a top 3 pick and I'm also sure people are aware of what happened between the Bengals & Saints in the draft. When the Saints offered a huge deal for the #3 pick but the Bengals turned it down.
So my question is this if the Bengals are offered a huge deal for that Pick. Do you think the Bengals would accept it? Also would you want the Bengals to accept the Deal?

If Mike Brown is alive he will somehow screw it up


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(10-06-2019, 10:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: That is a good point.  Not sure Tobin et al could draft good players with those extra picks.  

You’ve nailed the problem! I’m not sure anyone in the Front Office knows how to build a team from the trenches outward like Paul Brown did.

(10-06-2019, 10:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: That is a good point.  Not sure Tobin et al could draft good players with those extra picks.  

It's not even all about incompetence, but it just seems like making moves like that is just too much of a deviation from the safe norm for Mike Brown.  I never was sure he sold on Akili Smith being worth 17 picks so much as he didnt want to be scrambling all over during the draft with his 1 scout trying to figure out which players to take out of nowhere.

When Palmer wanted traded and the Browns wanted McCarron he seemed rather "Meh...I'm only going to bother with this if someone offers something insane."  Much like having a real GM or a fancy indoor practice facility I see Mike Brown regarding trade acrobatics to be rather unnecessary and annoying.

(10-06-2019, 10:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You’ve nailed the problem!  I’m not sure anyone in the Front Office knows how to build a team from the trenches outward like Paul Brown did.

When the front office gave fans crap about the signings of Bobby Hart, I felt the creeping death of the upcoming season...I would think Tobin recommended those signings.  

(10-06-2019, 10:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's not even all about incompetence, but it just seems like making moves like that is just too much of a deviation from the safe norm for Mike Brown.  I never was sure he sold on Akili Smith being worth 17 picks so much as he didnt want to be scrambling all over during the draft with his 1 scout trying to figure out which players to take out of nowhere.

When Palmer wanted traded and the Browns wanted McCarron he seemed rather "Meh...I'm only going to bother with this if someone offers something insane."  Much like having a real GM or a fancy indoor practice facility I see Mike Brown regarding trade acrobatics to be rather unnecessary and annoying.

Brown turned 84 this year...so there is that...

(10-06-2019, 10:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Right. Which is the elephant in the room and why we've not won a playoff game for 28+ years.

We can't draft.

This is a false narrative; we can draft well we just really suck at free agency. Would be real nice if we can actually sign one or two good impactful free agents.

(10-06-2019, 10:14 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Brown turned 84 this year...so there is that...

He's a double whammy because the activity of building a winning franchise seems to be too much work for him, but he also won't pay someone else to do it.  The guy has been set in his ways and lazy and refusing change for almost 30 years, though.

Like I said, Mike Brown has made trades and done stuff but for the most part it seems like he regards moves and actions that are becoming more and more standard practice in today's NFL as being newfangled and unnecessary. 

(10-06-2019, 10:15 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: This is a false narrative; we can draft well we just really suck at free agency. Would be real nice if we can actually sign one or two good impactful free agents.

How do we draft really well? Ced, Fisher, Price...I could go on and on and on with the list of picks we miss on.

This year...basically EVERY PLAYER we drafted has been bad when they play. If they play.

(10-06-2019, 10:15 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: This is a false narrative; we can draft well we just really suck at free agency. Would be real nice if we can actually sign one or two good impactful free agents.

Free agency?  Is it mandatory?  Nahhh, we'll pass.

(10-06-2019, 10:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's a double whammy because the activity of building a winning franchise seems to be too much work for him, but he also won't pay someone else to do it.  The guy has been set in his ways and lazy and refusing change for almost 30 years, though.

Like I said, Mike Brown has made trades and done stuff but for the most part it seems like he regards moves and actions that are becoming more and more standard practice in today's NFL as being newfangled and unnecessary. 

His system might work in something like the NBA where you have 5 guys on the court and a roster of 12-15 people. Generally the Top few picks are pretty obvious there and you get a star and it can carry you for 10-12 years.

In the NFL where you need 22 guys and depth because of injuries...it's just pretty impossible for his system to work unless they nail 3-4 drafts in a row.

HELL NO!

We need high end talent. If we’re going to miss let’s do it on a top pick that nobody can blame us for taking.

(10-06-2019, 10:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How do we draft really well? Ced, Fisher, Price...I could go on and on and on with the list of picks we miss on.

This year...basically EVERY PLAYER we drafted has been bad when they play. If they play.

We don't know about this year yet they haven't given any of the guys a chance to play.
We have drafted good players you just happened to pick the bad ones to make your point.

I get it the team sucks right now but not everything they do is terrible it's just the things that they don't do make them terrible.

(10-06-2019, 10:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Free agency?  Is it mandatory?  Nahhh, we'll pass.

True.