(10-09-2019, 11:40 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: No.

For the past decade Alabama has been like Tebow’s time at Florida. Surrounded by elite talent, elite coaching, etc. it makes the QB look way better than they actually are. Now I’m not saying I think Tua will be as awful as Tebow was at the pro level, I’m just saying I don’t think he’s worthy of top 10 consideration, much less first overall. I think Tua will be like a Kirk Cousins at best, and a Jake Locker at w uporst. (Obviously I’m not comparing playing styles, I’m talking about success at the NFL level).

Whoever reaches for Tua will regret it, IMO.

I'm with you on that one. He didn't fare very well against Clemson in the title game either. Facing that defense is as close as it gets to NFL level in college.

You could also say the same things about Urban Meyer QBs.

(10-08-2019, 08:10 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: If I were in Zac Taylor’s shoes I might go for the best offensive lineman available instead in the first round.

More my thoughts, won't matter if the Line sucks but we should be getting Jonah back next year. But adding a good RT in the
first and a Guard in FA would make a player like Finley look decent with hopefully Burrows falling to us in the 2nd. Than go LB
the rest of the Draft lol

Trevor Lawrence is the QB I want next year, have been a Dalton supporter for a long time but is panicking even when he HAS
time and Hopkins has actually played well at Center and I believe Price can be at least decent at Guard.

(10-09-2019, 10:44 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Me too!  You’re absolutely right but let’s think about this issue analytically.  Are the Bengals truly “missing” on early offensive lineman picks?  Statistically this looks like a binomial distribution to me: This is either poor scouting or poor coaching — and I lean toward the latter and here’s why:

Andre Smith, Kevin Zeitler, Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher, Billy Price, and Jonah Williams* were all highly graded in college.  We can look at their film and in college all of these men were extremely accomplished.  If the Bengals hadn’t taken them, other teams would have jumped at the chance.  These players came to Cincinnati with impressive resumes and lots of championship level experience but what happened?  While most professional teams “coach up” their players to the next level, the Bengals seem to coach their players down.

*I know we have no pro data on Jonah yet.

Exactly!

It is almost as if the coaching staff doesn't even bother coaching the players or scheme to to work around any weaknesses.

Jim Turner has 25 years of experience and he can't seem to think of a way to scheme to make the OLine play better?  The Steelers did it to us this previous game.  They moved the pocket, the RB moved and the screens they ran were far more effective than the screens we attempted.

Nick Eason has the most talented position group and he can't seem to get results out of them?  Daronte Jones and Robert Livingston have some talented players as well and they almost always look lost, especially the CBs.  We have 3 1st round CBs in Kirkpatrick, Jackson and Dennard (who is often injured), and we still get beat late in games due to them not playing to the talent that they possess.

The HC is the guy that is most scrutinized but I say these guys are the ones that are causing our team to fail.  Some are 1st year Bengals coaches, but the talent they have to work with and their experience as a coach should produce much better results.

(10-09-2019, 10:44 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Andre Smith, Kevin Zeitler, Cedric Ogbuehi, Jake Fisher, Billy Price, and Jonah Williams* were all highly graded in college.  We can look at their film and in college all of these men were extremely accomplished.  These players came to Cincinnati with impressive resumes and lots of championship level experience but what happened?  While most professional teams “coach up” their players to the next level, the Bengals seem to coach their players down.

Andre Smith was one of the best RTs in the league for a couple of years.  He played better here than he did for the coaches of two other teams he has been with.

Bengal "coached Zeitler down" to being the highest paid OG in the league.

Fishers career was ruined by medical condition.

Jonah Williams has never taken an NFL snap.

Og was a bust, but what have the Jacksonville coaches gotten out of him?

(10-09-2019, 12:00 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Exactly!

It is almost as if the coaching staff doesn't even bother coaching the players or scheme to to work around any weaknesses.

Jim Turner has 25 years of experience and he can't seem to think of a way to scheme to make the OLine play better?  The Steelers did it to us this previous game.  They moved the pocket, the RB moved and the screens they ran were far more effective than the screens we attempted.

Nick Eason has the most talented position group and he can't seem to get results out of them?  Daronte Jones and Robert Livingston have some talented players as well and they almost always look lost, especially the CBs.  We have 3 1st round CBs in Kirkpatrick, Jackson and Dennard (who is often injured), and we still get beat late in games due to them not playing to the talent that they possess.

The HC is the guy that is most scrutinized but I say these guys are the ones that are causing our team to fail.  Some are 1st year Bengals coaches, but the talent they have to work with and their experience as a coach should produce much better results.

I am usually one of the most positive posters on here but I think you are on to something. There is no excuses for not learning
from what happened to you last week when you got beat badly, namely in the run game. The coaches should of known the Cards
would run the same concepts the Stealers ran until it got stopped but we had the same players in (Preston and Vigil) and couldn't
set the edge and it killed us.

We all know that Kyler Murray is a great running QB and he still ran on us big time. Cannot let these things happen. Great coaches
take away the other teams biggest strengths and roll with the rest. They at least learn from the week before and watch tape on 
what a team is good at and try to take advantage of any weakness.

On Defense our guys look lost out there, namely Preston and Vigil, no excuse as these guys are veterans.

Our coaches better learn from last week or we will be 0-6. Keep Lamar in the pocket and make him pass the ball and hit the guy
constantly. This is how you beat him, if he makes great throws so be it. But don't let him beat you running the ball.

(10-09-2019, 12:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am usually one of the most positive posters on here but I think you are on to something. There is no excuses for not learning
from what happened to you last week when you got beat badly, namely in the run game. The coaches should of known the Cards
would run the same concepts the Stealers ran until it got stopped but we had the same players in (Preston and Vigil) and couldn't
set the edge and it killed us.

We all know that Kyler Murray is a great running QB and he still ran on us big time. Cannot let these things happen. Great coaches
take away the other teams biggest strengths and roll with the rest. They at least learn from the week before and watch tape on 
what a team is good at and try to take advantage of any weakness.

On Defense our guys look lost out there, namely Preston and Vigil, no excuse as these guys are veterans.

Our coaches better learn from last week or we will be 0-6. Keep Lamar in the pocket and make him pass the ball and hit the guy
constantly. This is how you beat him, if he makes great throws so be it. But don't let him beat you running the ball.

How many times, late in the game, will Kirkpatrick NOT know what Bates is doing and vice versa, only to give up a long TD?

Every game this year has us giving up that big play at the end.  Better coverage and we beat Seattle and Buffalo and even Arizona.  The Steelers QB doesn't get that easy confidence boosting long TD.

A lot of ignorance in this thread. If you have watched any of Saban’s other QBs and Tua you would see a marked difference. Tua can throw the ball deep and has the touch to allow WR to run after catch. He is very similar to Deshaun Watson who I would be fine drafting number one overall.

Picking OT at the top of the first vs near 20 is very different. OT is a sought after position so you are already getting scraps by then. If you watched film, you would see that he was not a good player for the NFL.We picked him for various reasons one of which is that he was probably the last OT with a first round body. But if you look at the rest of that round, the rest of the players were pretty much busts.

(10-09-2019, 12:16 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: How many times, late in the game, will Kirkpatrick NOT know what Bates is doing and vice versa, only to give up a long TD?

Every game this year has us giving up that big play at the end.  Better coverage and we beat Seattle and Buffalo and even Arizona.  The Steelers QB doesn't get that easy confidence boosting long TD.

Yeah, it is the whole back 7 out there that looks confused all the time. They need to learn to communicate better.

Not like players like WJ3 and Bates are not talented, if they play up to their talent level they can be tops but it doesn't matter
if there is bad communication. Completely agree we beat all 3 of those teams if we played better coverage and stop the break 
downs on Defense.

(10-09-2019, 10:47 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Has Alabama produced a good quality starter at QB since Ken Stabler though?

You can say that about a ton of schools though...

(10-09-2019, 12:20 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: A lot of ignorance in this thread. If you have watched any of Saban’s other QBs and Tua you would see a marked difference. Tua can throw the ball deep and has the touch to allow WR to run after catch. He is very similar to Deshaun Watson who I would be fine drafting number one overall.

Picking OT at the top of the first vs near 20 is very different. OT is a sought after position so you are already getting scraps by then. If you watched film, you would see that he was not a good player for the NFL.We picked him for various reasons one of which is that he was probably the last OT with a first round body. But if you look at the rest of that round, the rest of the players were pretty much busts.

He is definitely better than what has came out of Alabama lately, that's for sure. That said, the point still remains, he's surrounded by a lot of talent too. I was pretty high on him until he got benched in the 'chip. They play a lot of cupcakes early in the year too.

(10-09-2019, 12:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You can say that about a ton of schools though...

You can, but when you look around the league, a lot of the up and comers were guys that carried their respective teams in college, not the other way around. Watson is the exception.....but he's damn good at getting out of trouble, has a good arm, and is pretty smart with the football. He was all of that at Clemson too. 

Call me cautious on Tua at the moment. I'm not saying he will or will not translate at this level, but when I look at past tendencies from both QBs and RBs out of Bama, I'm a bit wary. Of course, Henry and Ingram have played well though.

(10-09-2019, 12:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: He is definitely better than what has came out of Alabama lately, that's for sure. That said, the point still remains, he's surrounded by a lot of talent too. I was pretty high on him until he got benched in the 'chip. They play a lot of cupcakes early in the year too.



You can, but when you look around the league, a lot of the up and comers were guys that carried their respective teams in college, not the other way around. Watson is the exception.....but he's damn good at getting out of trouble, has a good arm, and is pretty smart with the football. He was all of that at Clemson too. 

Call me cautious on Tua at the moment. I'm not saying he will or will not translate at this level, but when I look at past tendencies from both QBs and RBs out of Bama, I'm a bit wary. Of course, Henry and Ingram have played well though.

I like a lot of Bama's Defensive players not named Kirkpatrick...

(10-08-2019, 05:55 PM)RobertVadas Wrote: watched some Herbert highlights the other day..he is very impressive..with a very good arm

Another Oregon QB drafted in the Top 5? What could go wrong?

Seriously though, it’s got to be Tua or Burrow. Fromm has limited arm talent, and Herbert is hit or miss, and is another in the line of Oregon system QB’s. If they’re going to blow a Top 5 pick on Herbert I’d rather draft the OT from Georgia or the DE from Ohio State.

(10-09-2019, 11:58 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: More my thoughts, won't matter if the Line sucks but we should be getting Jonah back next year. But adding a good RT in the
first and a Guard in FA would make a player like Finley look decent with hopefully Burrows falling to us in the 2nd. Than go LB
the rest of the Draft lol

Trevor Lawrence is the QB I want next year, have been a Dalton supporter for a long time but is panicking even when he HAS
time and Hopkins has actually played well at Center and I believe Price can be at least decent at Guard.

Lawrence looks merely average this year and has been inaccurate.  He appears to mortal after all.  

Joe Burrows has that it factor that will have him screaming u the boards this offseason if he continues to impress. He will have a much better NFL career than he did a college career and he's destroying teams this year. We already started scouting Burrows so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in cincy.

Give me Tua. He has good pocket presence. It's already better than Dalton. Side steps, throwing out of the pocket, etc. You have to have a qb that can improvise at times. Also, didn't Tua come off the bench and win a championship once?

(10-09-2019, 12:55 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Another Oregon QB drafted in the Top 5?  What could go wrong?

Seriously though, it’s got to be Tua or Burrow.  Fromm has limited arm talent, and Herbert is hit or miss, and is another in the line of Oregon system QB’s.  If they’re going to blow a Top 5 pick on Herbert I’d rather draft the OT from Georgia or the DE from Ohio State.

Marcus Mariota has had a QBR of 90+ in 3 of his 4 NFL seasons.  Andy Dalton has had a 90+ QBR in 2 of his 9 seasons.

The next question is, are you giving Andy Dalton a $100+ million extension before next year starts?  If you're not, you have to go QB if you're in position to take a quality prospect.

I think Hebert is a better prospect than Mariota, but even if he is just equivalent to Mariota, he would represent a significant upgrade at a fraction of the price.

I'm convinced it doesn't matter who Zac Taylor has at QB. He could have Patrick Mahomes and it'd still be a wreck.

The Bengals went up against the defense that was the WORST against TE in the entire league, all of their TE were healthy, and yet it took THIRTY-SIX MINUTES into the game before a Bengals TE even got a single target.

That is the most unacceptable coaching job I have ever seen. It is a fundamental failure that shows that even if the Bengals had the talent, Zac Taylor is not and will never be the answer.

(10-09-2019, 12:58 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Lawrence looks merely average this year and has been inaccurate.  He appears to mortal after all.  

I agree but I still think he is the most talented QB to come out of college in a long time.

(10-09-2019, 01:01 PM)Okeana Wrote: Joe Burrows has that it factor that will have him screaming u the boards this offseason if he continues to impress.  He will have a much better NFL career than he did a college career and he's destroying teams this year.  We already started scouting Burrows so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in cincy.

I need to study up more on this Burrows guy...

(10-09-2019, 01:34 PM)Whatever Wrote: Marcus Mariota has had a QBR of 90+ in 3 of his 4 NFL seasons.  Andy Dalton has had a 90+ QBR in 2 of his 9 seasons.

The next question is, are you giving Andy Dalton a $100+ million extension before next year starts?  If you're not, you have to go QB if you're in position to take a quality prospect.

I think Hebert is a better prospect than Mariota, but even if he is just equivalent to Mariota, he would represent a significant upgrade at a fraction of the price.

Don't extend Dalton, I have seen enough of the panic attacks when a play breaks down.

Even when a play doesn't break down he panics now for heck sake. I have been a Dalton supporter for years too.

Need a QB with some pocket presence.

(10-09-2019, 01:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm convinced it doesn't matter who Zac Taylor has at QB. He could have Patrick Mahomes and it'd still be a wreck.

The Bengals went up against the defense that was the WORST against TE in the entire league, all of their TE were healthy, and yet it took THIRTY-SIX MINUTES into the game before a Bengals TE even got a single target.

That is the most unacceptable coaching job I have ever seen. It is a fundamental failure that shows that even if the Bengals had the talent, Zac Taylor is not and will never be the answer.

Was this more on Dalton not targeting the TE's, the TE's not being able to get open or Taylor is my question?

From what I have heard Taylor calls out a bunch of plays and Dalton chooses the one he likes.

If so, probably more on Dalton or the TE's not being able to get open. Eifert just seems much slower then he used to be.

Cannot blame him after all his injury history and cannot blame him for not catching that TD that Dalton threw behind him either.

I think it's between Burrow & Fromm both run pro offenses and should be available late in the first.
Also I think they wouldn't be opposed to a trade for Josh Rosen.

(10-09-2019, 01:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm convinced it doesn't matter who Zac Taylor has at QB. He could have Patrick Mahomes and it'd still be a wreck.

The Bengals went up against the defense that was the WORST against TE in the entire league, all of their TE were healthy, and yet it took THIRTY-SIX MINUTES into the game before a Bengals TE even got a single target.

That is the most unacceptable coaching job I have ever seen. It is a fundamental failure that shows that even if the Bengals had the talent, Zac Taylor is not and will never be the answer.

This is true.  Why the Bengals do not run two TE sets drive me crazy.